Yet another newbie

fxs81

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Hi guys and girls, i found this forum just a little late since i already ordered a ip camera a couple of days ago, with any luck it will arrive tomorrow. My name is Stef, i live in the Netherlands and want to use it to keep track of the yard, it is a small yard ( about 17 x 30 ft) so 1 camera pointed at the door of the fence is fine. I ordered a Reolink RLC-510A after talking to a collegue at work who has a 410W and said that these are pretty good cameras. After reading here i noticed pretty quickly that most people here have a different view on that brand. I am planning on using blue iris on my pc at first and see what happens. The yard is lit by motion triggered led lights so i do not need really need the nightvision function so i hope this camera will fill my needs. If not then i now know where to look for an upgrade. Maybe get another one for the front door and driveway in the future.
 

mat200

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Hi guys and girls, i found this forum just a little late since i already ordered a ip camera a couple of days ago, with any luck it will arrive tomorrow. My name is Stef, i live in the Netherlands and want to use it to keep track of the yard, it is a small yard ( about 17 x 30 ft) so 1 camera pointed at the door of the fence is fine. I ordered a Reolink RLC-510A after talking to a collegue at work who has a 410W and said that these are pretty good cameras. After reading here i noticed pretty quickly that most people here have a different view on that brand. I am planning on using blue iris on my pc at first and see what happens. The yard is lit by motion triggered led lights so i do not need really need the nightvision function so i hope this camera will fill my needs. If not then i now know where to look for an upgrade. Maybe get another one for the front door and driveway in the future.
Welcome @fxs81

Remember to test the camera fully for what you need it to do for you.

Feel free to share your test results here.
 

sebastiantombs

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:welcome:

Generally, most of the forum members are not fans of Reolink for a variety of reasons.

Welcome to the enchanted land of video surveillance lunatics, good guys, nut jobs and miscreants (yes, I fit into at least three categories). There are a lot of knowledgeable people on here and knowledge and experience are shared constantly. That's how I got to be a lunatic (already a nut job and miscreant).

Start out by looking in the WiKi in the blue bar at the top of the page. There's a ton of very useful information in there and it needs to be viewed on a computer, not a phone or tablet. The Cliff Notes will be of particular interest although the camera models listed there are a generation old at this point. The best way to determine what kind of camera you need in each location and where each location should really be is to buy one varifocal camera first and set up a test stand for it that can be easily moved around. Test using that, viewing using the web interface of the camera, during the day and at night. Have someone walk around behaving like a miscreant and see if you can identify them. There is also information for choosing hardware and securing the system along with a whole bunch of other good stuff.

Don't chase megapixels unless you have a really BIG budget. General rule of thumb is that a 4MP camera will easily outperform an 8MP camera when they both have the same sensor size. Reason being that there are twice as many pixels in the 8MP versus the 4MP. This results in only half the available light getting to each pixel in an 8MP that a pixel in the 4MP "sees".

A dedicated PC doesn't need to be either expensive to purchase or to run. A used business class machine can be had from eBay and various other sources. The advances made in Blue Iris make it easily possible to run a fairly large system on relatively inexpensive hardware which also makes power consumption low, as in under 50 watts in many cases. The biggest expenses turn out to be hard drives for storing video and a PoE switch to power the cameras and, of course, the cameras themselves.

The three basic rules of video surveillance cameras-

Rule #1 - Cameras multiply like rabbits.
Rule #2 - Cameras are more addictive than drugs.
Rule #3 - You never have enough cameras.

Quick guide -

The smaller the lux number the better the low light performance. 0.002 is better than 0.02
The smaller the "F" of the lens the better the low light performance. F1.4 is better than F1.8
The larger the sensor the better the low light performance. 1/1.8" is better (bigger) than 1/2.7"
The higher the megapixels for the same size sensor the worse the low light performance. A 4MP camera with a 1/1.8" sensor will perform better than a 8MP camera with that same 1/1.8" sensor.

Don't believe all the marketing hype no matter who makes the camera. Don't believe those nice night time captures they all use. Look for videos, with motion, to determine low light performance. Any camera can be made to "see" color at night if the exposure time is long enough, as in half a second or longer. Rule of thumb, the shutter speed needs to be at 1/60 or higher to get night video without blurring.

Read the reviews here, most include both still shots and video.
 

wittaj

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+1 on return if you can!!!

Pretty good camera is relative....

Here is typically what folks post about those cameras and say it is great quality (that clearly isn't), which is a direct result of the camera adjusting settings to make the static image look great, but any motion and it is a complete blur mess...

1615050527249.png



This is an example from their marketing videos - do you see a person in this picture...yes, there is a person in this picture. This is why you cannot buy any system that you cannot change the shutter speed or control any other parameter. Could this provide anything useful for the police? The still picture looks great though except for the person and the blur of the vehicle... Will give you a hint - the person is in between the two columns:



1613251115189.png



Bad Boys
Bad Boys
Watcha gonna do
Watcha gonna do
When the camera can't see you

 
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Cameraguy

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Hi guys and girls, i found this forum just a little late since i already ordered a ip camera a couple of days ago, with any luck it will arrive tomorrow. My name is Stef, i live in the Netherlands and want to use it to keep track of the yard, it is a small yard ( about 17 x 30 ft) so 1 camera pointed at the door of the fence is fine. I ordered a Reolink RLC-510A after talking to a collegue at work who has a 410W and said that these are pretty good cameras. After reading here i noticed pretty quickly that most people here have a different view on that brand. I am planning on using blue iris on my pc at first and see what happens. The yard is lit by motion triggered led lights so i do not need really need the nightvision function so i hope this camera will fill my needs. If not then i now know where to look for an upgrade. Maybe get another one for the front door and driveway in the future.
Get to know Andy @EMPIRETECANDY he will get you the cameras you need
 

wittaj

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And here is why Blue Iris and Reolinks do not work well together.

This was a screenshot of a member here where they had set these cameras to 15FPS within the cameras (I suspect you will be missing motion that you do not know you are missing....):

1617133192782.png



Now look at they key - that is the iframes. Blue Iris works best when the FPS and the iframes match. Now this is a ratio, so it should be a 1 if it matches the FPS. The iframes not matching (that you cannot fix or change with a reolink) is why they miss motion in Blue Iris and why people have problems. This is mainly why people are having issues with these cameras and there are many threads showing the issues people have with this manufacturer and Blue Iris. It is these same games that make the camera look great as a still image or video but turn to crap once motion is introduced.

The Blue Iris developer has indicated that for best reliability, sub stream frame rate should be equal to the main stream frame rate and these cameras cannot do that and there is nothing you can do about that with these cameras... The iframe rates (something these cameras do not allow you to set) should equal the FPS, but at worse case be no more than double. This example shows the cameras going down to a keyrate of 0.25 means that the iframe rates are over 4 times the FPS and that is why motion detection is a disaster with these cameras and Blue Iris...A value of 0.5 or less is considered insufficient to trust for motion triggers reliably...try to do AI Tools and it will be useless...

Compounding the matter even worse...motion detection is based on the substream and look at the substream FPS - they dropped down to below 6 FPS with an iframe/key rate of 0.25 - you will miss motion most of the time with that issue...

Blue Iris is great and works with probably more camera brands than most VMS programs, but there are brands that don't work well or not at all - Rings, Arlos, Nest, Some Zmodo cams use proprietary systems and cannot be used with Blue Iris, and for a lot of people Reolink doesn't work well either.

Now compare above to mine and cameras that follow industry standards that allow you to actually set parameters and they don't manipulate them. You will see that my FPS match what I set in the camera, and the 1.00 key means the iframe matches:

1614139197822.png
 
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fxs81

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Thanks for the welcome, the links and info, you guys work fast :cool: (did not expect that, it is 02:00 AM here)
I will test the camera as it comes in and see what happens since the yard is never dark when there is movement. Just checked the reolink website and i have the option to return it if i am not happy with it for any reason. I will share my findings with the camera here with some footage.
 

sebastiantombs

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It's only 20:00 here on the East Coast US. Peak time for forums :)

Be sure to test under night time conditions. That's the most critical time and most difficult time to get good video.
 

fxs81

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Ok, camera is installed, i only set it up in the reolink app and client for now, i am going to test it for a couple of days to see if it is good enough for me. Cannot wait until it gets dark. I have a daytime snapshot and little video. Person detection and recording seems to be working fine during te day. It records to the PC when it detects a person. I will update with a nighttime video with and without movement and with and without yard led lights on.

Schermafbeelding 2021-04-01 164159.jpg

 

sebastiantombs

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Looking at that camera the IR illuminators are in the old "ring around the rosie" arrangement with the lens in the middle of the ring. Definitely a very strong spider and bug magnet.
 

fxs81

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Ok, i have a quit moment at work (nightshift) so i had some time to process some video's form the Reolink RLC-510A
First one is late yesterday evening without any yard lights on and as you can see (and you all expected) it is not as clear as i had hoped it would be. On the other hand that would be strange since there are several samples here and on youtube that show similar results.


Second one is with the yard lights on, this is the normal situation at my house at night, they come on automaticaly when they detect movement and go out again when there is no movement for 30 seconds. This delivers a pretty good image i think.
Offcourse not as clear as daytime but no ghosting.


The last one is with the lights out and the dogs in the yard. You can see Hugo taking it out on the broom :oops:


The misses is pretty happy with the outcome but since i saw here what the possiblities are with ipcams that are just a little bit more expensive i am thinking to put this one at the front door and buy a new one at Andy for the yard.
All footage is taken from the Reolink client software, i still have to test the camera with Blue Iris. A annoying thing with the Reolink app is that it stretches the image to widescreen and you cannot set it to 4:3 while the client software or webgui does offer that option. Another thing is that the app does not playback videos that are recorded on the pc by the client software, it looks like i have to put in a sdcard for that to work, going to email Reolink if they have a workaround for that. I will have a go at Blue Iris this weekend and see how that goes and if i can get a connection away from home on my phone. I guess i have some more reading to do here.
 

mat200

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Ok, i have a quit moment at work (nightshift) so i had some time to process some video's form the Reolink RLC-510A
First one is late yesterday evening without any yard lights on and as you can see (and you all expected) it is not as clear as i had hoped it would be. On the other hand that would be strange since there are several samples here and on youtube that show similar results.


Second one is with the yard lights on, this is the normal situation at my house at night, they come on automaticaly when they detect movement and go out again when there is no movement for 30 seconds. This delivers a pretty good image i think.
Offcourse not as clear as daytime but no ghosting.


The last one is with the lights out and the dogs in the yard. You can see Hugo taking it out on the broom :oops:


The misses is pretty happy with the outcome but since i saw here what the possiblities are with ipcams that are just a little bit more expensive i am thinking to put this one at the front door and buy a new one at Andy for the yard.
All footage is taken from the Reolink client software, i still have to test the camera with Blue Iris. A annoying thing with the Reolink app is that it stretches the image to widescreen and you cannot set it to 4:3 while the client software or webgui does offer that option. Another thing is that the app does not playback videos that are recorded on the pc by the client software, it looks like i have to put in a sdcard for that to work, going to email Reolink if they have a workaround for that. I will have a go at Blue Iris this weekend and see how that goes and if i can get a connection away from home on my phone. I guess i have some more reading to do here.
Thanks @fxs81

Here's a sample screen capture from youtube, the ghosting issues are clearly shown and there is clearly no way for a possible ID with images like this in low light conditions.


1617392184597.png
 
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