So I cheaped out on security cameras and its really been comming back to biting me in the butt

[Sunny7]

Sorry if this topic is in the wrong section feel freely to move it if necessary but I could really use some advice so here goes. For a tl;dr just skip to the last paragraph.

I bought my mom security cameras + DVR back in 2013 due to a recent break in and when I bought them, I kind of cheaped out on them and bought some literally who camera system without doing any research, from Amazon called Kguard.

Link here

Spoiler: Whole story

It came with a DVR with 4 channels and 4 cameras. I had the option of getting an 8 cameras DVR but I was thinking she wouldn't need that many and save a few dollars(its wasn't even that much either). Later I slapped them up and they show up fine, it wasn't until after I put them up that I realized her house has many blind spots that 4 cameras wasn't enough but I didn't think much of it at the time. Over the years I've been really regretting not doing my research and getting an 8 channel DVR as we've missed out on a good number of dumb stuff in her neighborhood that could have been caught on cam if it wasn't for the blind spots. But the worse of it wasn't until a couple of months ago and this is where my main issue is.

Last June, we found out that someone has been slashing her car tires one night but luckily we caught the perp on 3 different cams, even the car he drove in on all sides. She got the videos and reported it to the local police. What should have been end of story, wasn't as the perp came back over a month later and slashed her tires again. He was caught on 3 different cams again but slightly better than the last time as we got a good look of the guy. So my mom turned the videos again to the local police and they finally told her, they really couldn't do anything due to the quality of the videos.

Now I'm sure this would make anyone's blood boil but to be fair this was partly my fault. For starters, the cameras I go her had issues at night. Day time, they show perfect but at night, everything looks foggy or fuzzy and you couldn't really make out anyone's face let alone the guy who slashed my mom's tires face. Also since everything is in black and white, we really couldn't make out the guy's car. I've tried my best to mess the the setting on the DVR but not only do I not know what I'm doing, some settings like IRIS, don't seem to work with these cameras, so I'm guessing these cameras don't support IRIS.

After so much headache we decided that she needs a better camera system and I have no clue who or what to look for. With Kguard, the software is pretty crappy and dated, the main site seems to be in Chinese so lol at the support, the VGA/SVGA cables BLOCK THE USB PORTS and even then, it won't recognize certain UBS devices. The only good thing I can say about them is the cameras show nicely in the day time and can withstand really hot and cold weather. I kind of got an idea on what she needs but I'd like to hear you all's advice on some good affordable camera systems. Not really all for IP cameras. Need at least 6-8 cameras and something with a better view at night. Basically anything better than the specs in the Kguard link I posted. Any advice would be helpful.

 

[bigredfish]

That system and those cameras are such old technology that you need to start over. None of it it is worth keeping.

Given that you likely already have RG59 cable installed and dont want to go the IP route, look at the Dahua line of HDCVI cameras. You should be able to use your existing cable and with 2MP (1080p) Starlights you'll see a jump in technology and image quality that will be light years ahead of what you have now.

HDCVI Cameras
(you may have to click the link twice, its their International site)

 

[looney2ns]

Also, on a real computer, study this for your general edification: Cliff Notes.

 

[SouthernYankee]

----------------------------
You have learn a very hard lesson. Know apply your knowledge.
Read,study,plan before spending money ..... plan plan plan
----------------------------

My standard welcome to the forum message.

Please read the cliff notes and other items in the wiki. The wiki is in the blue bar at the top of the page.

Read How to Secure Your Network (Don't Get Hacked!) | IP Cam Talk in the wiki also.

Quick start
1) Use Dahua starlight cameras or Hikvision darkfighter cameras or ICPT Night eye cameras (https://store.ipcamtalk.com/) if you need good low light cameras.
2) use a VPN to access home network (openVPN)
3) Do not use wifi cameras.
4) Do not use cloud storage
5) Do Not use uPNP, P2P, QR, do not open ports,
6) More megapixel is not necessarily better.
7) Avoid chinese hacked cameras (most ebay, amazon, aliexpress cameras(not all, but most))
8) Do not use reolink, ring, nest cameras (they are junk)
9) If possible use a turret camera , bullet collect spiders, dome collect dirt and reflect light (IR)
10) Use only solid copper, AWG 23 or 24 ethernet wire. , no CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum)
11) use a test mount to verify the camera mount location. My test rig: rev.2
12) (Looney2ns)If you want to be able to ID faces, don't mount cams higher than 8ft. You want to know who did it, not just what happened.
13) Use a router that has openVPN built in (Most ASUS, Some NetGear....)

Cameras to look at
IPC-HDW2231R-ZS Review-Dahua IPC-HDW2231RP-ZS Starlight Camera-Varifocal
IPC-HDW5231-ZE Review-Dahua Starlight IPC-HDW5231R-ZE 800 meter capable ePOE
IPC-HFW4239T-ASE IPC-HFW4239T-ASE
IPC-T5442TM-AS Review IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED (Full Color, Starlight+)
IPCT-HDW5431RE-I Review - IP Cam Talk 4 MP IR Fixed Turret Network Camera
DS-2CD2325FWD-I

My preferred indoor cameras
DS-2CD2442FWD-IW
IPC-K35A Review-Dahua IPC-K35A 3mp Cube Camera


Read,study,plan before spending money ..... plan plan plan
Test do not guess

 

[Sunny7]

Man you guys are life savors, gave me a lot to think about. It's also good to know I can still reuse the RG59 cables. I'm thinking about slowly buying each equipment separately instead of full packages like I did with kguard and mix and match different outdoor cameras for different areas and purposes. I may still go for a bullet camera, if its cheaper, for one section of the house as I've never had issues with the kguard bullet camera and spiders on that side of the house, the other side is a different story though. Other insects are still an issue sometimes too. I was also thinking about a license plate reader for 1 section of the house as there is a stop sign right in front of the house which is in a perfect location for 1, but that will be something to think about later.

I see a lot of camera recommendations but not much for DVR recommendations so my question is, what do I look for if I want an 8 channel DVR? I've also noticed that some of these cameras eat up quite a bit of HDD space per cameras so this kind of worries me the most. So I either have to find the largest HDD I can get or go full NAS storage?

@SouthernYankee
About the VPN, I'm not saying it wouldn't be helpful but, do I really need to use a VPN to access the home DVR network? I see them mentioned a lot but never actually used one myself. Don't you have to pay monthly for those? Don't think I really want to go out and buy a new router just to use the built in openVPN, not just because I need to buy a new router but the current router placement that was given to by the ISP needs to be rewired and relocated and that's just too much work to go through. Plus I'm not really that internet tech savvy so I barely know what I'm doing when messing with networks.

 

[mat200]

..
I bought my mom security cameras + DVR back in 2013 due to a recent break in and when I bought them, I kind of cheaped out on them and bought some literally who camera system without doing any research, from Amazon called Kguard...
Last June, we found out that someone has been slashing her car tires one night but luckily we caught the perp on 3 different cams, even the car he drove in on all sides. She got the videos and reported it to the local police. What should have been end of story, wasn't as the perp came back over a month later and slashed her tires again. He was caught on 3 different cams again but slightly better than the last time as we got a good look of the guy. So my mom turned the videos again to the local police and they finally told her, they really couldn't do anything due to the quality of the videos.
...

That system and those cameras are such old technology that you need to start over. None of it it is worth keeping.

Given that you likely already have RG59 cable installed and dont want to go the IP route, look at the Dahua line of HDCVI cameras. ..

Man you guys are life savors, gave me a lot to think about. It's also good to know I can still reuse the RG59 cables..

Welcome @Sunny7

Ouch, sorry to read about your mom's troubles. That really always sucks when you go to the police and they tell you that all your time and effort helped little. ( I've done that, and this is why I really dislike those peddling the cloud products which fail to do proper embedded time stamps.. they're just not good for evidence, .. )

Good recommendations from bigredfish and SouthernYankees

IF you have quality cable ( proper RG59 w/copper wires ), then I would reuse it. Check to see if anything is printed on the cabling, you can post pictures of anything printed on the cable and we can see if we can help identify if it looks like a good cable. ( in the USA we would see the appropriate printed info on the cable like RG59.. )

IF you used the cable that came in the box, and that cable is cheap ( many cheap kits include cheap cables - too thin wires, not solid copper / cca ) - I would redo the cabling with cat6.

 

[SouthernYankee]

Any secure access to the home network from the internet requires a VPN. So If you want to look at the cameras while away from the home you will need a VPN.

There are two types of VPN, do not get them confused.
1) one type of VPN hides your activity from the internet, it is outbound, it normally costs a monthly fee to use. Direction is from your home PC to the internet, going to your bank, google, porn sites,,,, this not what you want
2) the other type is used to provide a secure connection onto your local network, in bound to you local home network, from your office computer, your cell phone in your car, tablet at the coffee shop.. This is what you want, it does not have a monthly fee and is normally completely free.

You do not want to put in a VPN. Then do not access the camera or your home network from the internet. Most not all ISP provided router can be place in passthru mode. So they only act as a modem. This allows you to put in your own router. You can set up an VPN on a PC inside your network, but this takes knownledge and time.

Do not be cheap or poor boy it again. Take your time and go slow.

Read,study,plan before spending money ..... plan plan plan

 

[looney2ns]

How to Secure Your Network (Don't Get Hacked!) | IP Cam Talk

Buy once, cry once. Me, myself and I would be suspect of the cabling that came with any kit....be sure to check it out closely.

 

[Sunny7]

Ouch, sorry to read about your mom's troubles. That really always sucks when you go to the police and they tell you that all your time and effort helped little. ( I've done that, and this is why I really dislike those peddling the cloud products which fail to do proper embedded time stamps.. they're just not good for evidence, .. )

Yeah it sucks. They could have at least told us the first time instead of giving our hopes up and saying nothing. At least then we would have known about getting better cameras sooner.

IF you have quality cable ( proper RG59 w/copper wires ), then I would reuse it. Check to see if anything is printed on the cabling, you can post pictures of anything printed on the cable and we can see if we can help identify if it looks like a good cable. ( in the USA we would see the appropriate printed info on the cable like RG59.. )

IF you used the cable that came in the box, and that cable is cheap ( many cheap kits include cheap cables - too thin wires, not solid copper / cca ) - I would redo the cabling with cat6.

After taking another look, I'm thinking I was wrong and may need new cables after all. This is what's hooked up to the DVR

And this is the printed label on the cord

Any secure access to the home network from the internet requires a VPN. So If you want to look at the cameras while away from the home you will need a VPN.

There are two types of VPN, do not get them confused.
1) one type of VPN hides your activity from the internet, it is outbound, it normally costs a monthly fee to use. Direction is from your home PC to the internet, going to your bank, google, porn sites,,,, this not what you want
2) the other type is used to provide a secure connection onto your local network, in bound to you local home network, from your office computer, your cell phone in your car, tablet at the coffee shop.. This is what you want, it does not have a monthly fee and is normally completely free.

You do not want to put in a VPN. Then do not access the camera or your home network from the internet. Most not all ISP provided router can be place in passthru mode. So they only act as a modem. This allows you to put in your own router. You can set up an VPN on a PC inside your network, but this takes knownledge and time.

Do not be cheap or poor boy it again. Take your time and go slow.

Read,study,plan before spending money ..... plan plan plan

I'll definitely look into this, thanks again.

 

[mat200]

..
After taking another look, I'm thinking I was wrong and may need new cables after all. This is what's hooked up to the DVR
..
...

Hi @Sunny7

26 AWG - wow, that's thin wire. Proper RG59 is 20 AWG.

Indeed I would rerun the cable runs, as I suspect the 26 AWG wire was tested by the vendor to be the thinnest wire they could use and still have those cctv cameras work in the kit. ( low resolution cameras now, suspect cameras which need to transfer more data down those wires may have some issues.. ) Same may apply to the power wire on that kit, cameras which require more power would be better supported with a better quality wire for power also.

So, CAT6 time!

 

[Frankenscript]

And since it's Cat6 time, it's IPCAMERA time!

One hint though: don't pull the old wire out of the walls until you are ready to run the new cables. Use the old cables to pull the new cable into position.

 

[Sunny7]

Hi @Sunny7

26 AWG - wow, that's thin wire. Proper RG59 is 20 AWG.

Indeed I would rerun the cable runs, as I suspect the 26 AWG wire was tested by the vendor to be the thinnest wire they could use and still have those cctv cameras work in the kit. ( low resolution cameras now, suspect cameras which need to transfer more data down those wires may have some issues.. ) Same may apply to the power wire on that kit, cameras which require more power would be better supported with a better quality wire for power also.

So, CAT6 time!

And since it's Cat6 time, it's IPCAMERA time!

One hint though: don't pull the old wire out of the walls until you are ready to run the new cables. Use the old cables to pull the new cable into position.

Yeah, I think I should be able to fish a new RG59 cable along side the old one by tying or taping them together from the DVR end and just feeding it through the holes already made outside. For the CAT cables, the one that came with the kguard system, was a really short CAT5 cable so it had to always be next to the router. I was meaning to get a longer one but never got around to it. I didn't really do a good job at wiring everything and basically just sat everything in 1 place(router, DVR, power, etc.). I know better now.

So far what I'm looking at on getting is:

1. 1-2 RG59 20AWG cables with solid copper for 1-2 cameras to start off with
   
2. 1 Cat6 cable
3. 1 Power Supply thingy for the cameras
4. 1 DVR
5. 1 HDD if the DVR doesn't come with 1
6. And lastly 1-2 cameras

I have a lot to get and do before I even think about a camera. Would also be helpful to know which stores and brands of cables and such I should look for and maybe some suggestions on the list.

 

[Frankenscript]

Don't put RG59 in, put Cat6 in...

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk

 

[J Sigmo]

Yes, @Sunny7, You're misunderstanding.

As long as you're replacing the cables to the cameras, pull in CAT6 cable, NOT RG59.

That way, you can use IP cameras and get completely away from the coax-connected types.

This will open up your possibilities tremendously! Many many cameras will then be available to you. And you can use a PC running Blue Iris rather than being stuck with a DVR.

It's extra work to pull new cable. So do it right, and run good quality (pure copper, not copper clad aluminum) CAT6 cables to every camera location. Maybe run an extra spare to each place for future expansion. Leave slack! Cable is cheap. Your labor is more valuable. Pulling two or more cables to a particular location is about the same labor as pulling one.

You will appreciate being able to use IP cameras, and that means running CAT6 to the camera locations.

 

[Sunny7]

Don't put RG59 in, put Cat6 in...

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk

Yes, @Sunny7, You're misunderstanding.

As long as you're replacing the cables to the cameras, pull in CAT6 cable, NOT RG59.

That way, you can use IP cameras and get completely away from the coax-connected types.

This will open up your possibilities tremendously! Many many cameras will then be available to you. And you can use a PC running Blue Iris rather than being stuck with a DVR.

It's extra work to pull new cable. So do it right, and run good quality (pure copper, not copper clad aluminum) CAT6 cables to every camera location. Maybe run an extra spare to each place for future expansion. Leave slack! Cable is cheap. Your labor is more valuable. Pulling two or more cables to a particular location is about the same labor as pulling one.

You will appreciate being able to use IP cameras, and that means running CAT6 to the camera locations.

I see, I guess I'm still treating this as the last kguard DVR system. So you're all suggesting an NVR + IP cameras? The pdf and clifnotes are nice and all but I need to be able to see this stuff up close or in hand to really understand it. Maybe a video tutorial in details how all this is supposed to be set up. Heck, I'm not even sure I really want to go NVR unless that's my only option if I want a good 2MP 1080 camera. Keep up with the suggestions though, its really helping.

And you can use a PC running Blue Iris rather than being stuck with a DVR.

How does Blue Iris work exactly? Like don't I need a good PC to run this? Will I need it to be running all the time in the background or just whenever I want to use the cameras?

 

[mat200]

I see, I guess I'm still treating this as the last kguard DVR system. So you're all suggesting an NVR + IP cameras? ..

FYI - there are adapters that allow you to use a cat6 cable for a DVR kit... so that is always an option

 

[Frankenscript]

I see, I guess I'm still treating this as the last kguard DVR system. So you're all suggesting an NVR + IP cameras? The pdf and clifnotes are nice and all but I need to be able to see this stuff up close or in hand to really understand it. Maybe a video tutorial in details how all this is supposed to be set up. Heck, I'm not even sure I really want to go NVR unless that's my only option if I want a good 2MP 1080 camera. Keep up with the suggestions though, its really helping.


How does Blue Iris work exactly? Like don't I need a good PC to run this? Will I need it to be running all the time in the background or just whenever I want to use the cameras?

Buy a used business PC to dedicate to Blue Iris. You can get something very usable for under $300 plus cost of storage drives.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk

 

[VorlonFrog]

Here's a great example of an off-lease desktop PC for cheap:
Dell PC SFF DESKTOP Intel i7 3.40g 16GB NEW 1TB HD Windows 10 Wifi DVD | eBay

ebay search keywords: Dell SFF Desktop i7

And, if you hurry:
Dell Optiplex 790 SFF Core i7-2600 3.4Ghz 8GB 1TB PC Desktop Win10 WIFI LOT | eBay

 

[Frankenscript]

It's fun to watch these deals. My own opinion is that I would recommend to stick with a more recent generation, fourth at least. I think somebody the ones above are second generation i7.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk

 

[looney2ns]

Choosing Hardware for Blue Iris | IP Cam Talk