Need Help With Hikvision 4k Camera

[markfoy]

Hello all,
This is my first post here so please pardon me if this is not the right place and feel free to move to the appropriate section.
I have a Hikvision 4k dome camera installed in frot of my house and I have been super disappointed at the video and picture quality.
I got it long before I became a member of this forum and I am wondering if I got something wrong in the setting or if I got a knock-off version (bought it on aliexpress last year)

I got an amazon delivery this morning and as you can see, even though the guy is just a couple of feet way from the camera, you cannot make out the name of the delivery company printed big and bold on the vest. My expectation is that with a 4k camera, you should be able to see details pretty clearly even when you do digital zoom on an object at a fairly reasonable distance from the camera.
I also attached the camera setting - I hope I got something wrong that you can help me figure out.

 

[mat200]

Hello all,
This is my first post here so please pardon me if this is not the right place and feel free to move to the appropriate section.
I have a Hikvision 4k dome camera installed in frot of my house and I have been super disappointed at the video and picture quality.
I got it long before I became a member of this forum and I am wondering if I got something wrong in the setting or if I got a knock-off version (bought it on aliexpress last year)

I got an amazon delivery this morning and as you can see, even though the guy is just a couple of feet way from the camera, you cannot make out the name of the delivery company printed big and bold on the vest. My expectation is that with a 4k camera, you should be able to see details pretty clearly even when you do digital zoom on an object at a fairly reasonable distance from the camera.
I also attached the camera setting - I hope I got something wrong that you can help me figure out.

Welcome @markfoy

See the DORI section in the cliff notes...

Also, we need to know more about the camera - FOV is critical to determining pixel density.

BTW - I believe your camera is mounted too high...

 

[wittaj]

Hello all,
This is my first post here so please pardon me if this is not the right place and feel free to move to the appropriate section.
I have a Hikvision 4k dome camera installed in frot of my house and I have been super disappointed at the video and picture quality.
I got it long before I became a member of this forum and I am wondering if I got something wrong in the setting or if I got a knock-off version (bought it on aliexpress last year)

I got an amazon delivery this morning and as you can see, even though the guy is just a couple of feet way from the camera, you cannot make out the name of the delivery company printed big and bold on the vest. My expectation is that with a 4k camera, you should be able to see details pretty clearly even when you do digital zoom on an object at a fairly reasonable distance from the camera.
I also attached the camera setting - I hope I got something wrong that you can help me figure out.

As another has said, camera is too high. What is your shutter speed - there appears to be a lot of blur for a daytime image?

Biggest mistake people make is thinking 4K means you can digital zoom like we see in movies and TVs - we just are not there yet. The sensors in these cameras are small and thus any zoom needs to be optical and not digital. You might get by with a little digital zoom, but not much.

You would be shocked how close someone needs to be to a 2.8 lens in order to ID them. And how much additional light is needed at night (when it matters most) for a 4k camera. There currently isn't an economical 8MP/sensor combination at the moment that any would recommend.

Take a look at this chart - to identify someone with the 2.8mm lens (which this camera probably is or maybe the 4mm), someone would have to be within 13 feet of the camera. In reality, it is more like 10 feet or less and you lose several feet just by it being higher. Someone 10 feet away from a camera at 6ft high will be clearer than someone standing 10 feet away from a camera at 12 feet high from where they are standing. Simple trig.

A great camera placed at the wrong place results in less that ideal performance.

If you are trying to identify clearly someone at the sidewalk, you are picking the wrong camera for what you are trying to capture. At that height and distance will let you know something happened, but not who did it. Needs to be like 2 meters high and no more than 3-4m for a 2.8mm camera.

You need to pick the right camera for the location you are trying to capture images of. A 2.8mm lens is the wrong camera to identify people 10 meters away from a camera too high. A 32mm lens is the wrong camera trying to ID someone 2 meters away. Both cameras are great, but used in the wrong location results in not capturing what you want to identify.

 

[mat200]

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Hi @wittaj

Is this DORI table for a "4K" camera?

 

[wittaj]

Hi @wittaj

Is this DORI table for a "4K" camera?

I believe that is the same one that has been around for awhile, but I also do not believe based on my observations that 4k would result in significant leaps in distances from this chart. I know I do not see a big improvement in my 2.8mm 2MP and 4MP beyond 10 feet. Certainly not enough to justify not bumping up a size in lens...

That is what we need to do - have members here post pics from their cameras at different resolutions at the same distance and come up with our own DORI chart. I have never felt a 2.8mm at the time that chart was developed could ID at 13 feet out and felt like those were under ideal real world situations.

 

[markfoy]

Thanks for your replies.
The camera is about 7ft+ from the landing (see attached picture). At this height only a door bell camera will make sense to be installed lower.
FYI, the camera has 2.8 to 12 mm Motorized Varifocal Lens and its current zoomed position is somewhere in-between the two extremes
I am not expecting to get professional camera image quality; but I expect something within a ballpark like here Garbage Truck Doesn't Like My Trash

I am planning on installing additional camera in front of the driveway - DS-2DE4A425IW with 25x optical zoom and the plan is to put it on the soffit (about a foot higher than this one). But going by the comments here, it appears that will be a bad idea.

As for FoV, I have not idea. Is there a way to get that info?

 

[mat200]

Thanks for your replies.
The camera is about 7ft+ from the landing (see attached picture). At this height only a door bell camera will make sense to be installed lower.
FYI, the camera has 2.8 to 12 mm Motorized Varifocal Lens and its current zoomed position is somewhere in-between the two extremes
I am not expecting to get professional camera image quality; but I expect something within a ballpark like here Garbage Truck Doesn't Like My Trash

I am planning on installing additional camera in front of the driveway - DS-2DE4A425IW with 25x optical zoom and the plan is to put it on the soffit (about a foot higher than this one). But going by the comments here, it appears that will be a bad idea.

As for FoV, I have not idea. Is there a way to get that info?

I like my camera at about face level by the front door.. idea is to get the best chances of a good facial ID.

Aim your camera to the face level for someone standing at the base of the stairs.. set the FOV so you have 100 ppf there.

see the DORI section in the cliff notes for the equation on that.
Detection, Observation, Recognition, and Identification (DORI) Parameters

IP Cam Talk Cliff Notes

Information in this section was contributed by [URL='https://ipcamtalk.com/members/mat200.29441/'][COLOR=#0000b3]@matt200[/COLOR][/URL] and [URL='https://ipcamtalk.com/members/giomania.36271/'][COLOR=#0000b3]@giomania [/COLOR][/URL] [/LIST] Any dedicated manufacturer NVR should match...

ipcamtalk.com

Then adjust the camera parameters to get crisper / cleaner images ( i.e. not smooth video flow, but crispy still images )

I also like to see the package drop area.. so perhaps an additional camera...

 

[Parley]

IMHO your bitrate is on the lowside for a 4K camera. I would bump it up to over 10,000. Some on this forum go higher than that. Do you have the model number of the camera so that we can look up its specifications?

 

[markfoy]

IMHO your bitrate is on the lowside for a 4K camera. I would bump it up to over 10,000. Some on this forum go higher than that. Do you have the model number of the camera so that we can look up its specifications?

The model is DS-2CD2785G0-IZS
Sometime a go on this forum, someone posted he had issues with artifacts and ghosting. One of the recommendations was to reduce the bitrate. I had issues with missing frames when I used higher too.

 

[Parley]

The model is DS-2CD2785G0-IZS
Sometime a go on this forum, someone posted he had issues with artifacts and ghosting. One of the recommendations was to reduce the bitrate. I had issues with missing frames when I used higher too.

Thank you for the information. I see that camera has a 1/2" Progressive Scan CMOS sensor. I can tell you that the night vision will not be good at all unless there is a lot of light available. With that small of a sensor maybe the bitrate is OK. I have never dealt with a 4K camera with a 1/2" sensor. My 4K cameras have a 1/1.2" sensor or larger.

 

[mat200]

The model is DS-2CD2785G0-IZS
Sometime a go on this forum, someone posted he had issues with artifacts and ghosting. One of the recommendations was to reduce the bitrate. I had issues with missing frames when I used higher too.

FYI - adding the data sheet here


Spec's look good for a 8MP camera.... I'm not a big fan of dome cameras, but should be good if you have enough light out.

 

[markfoy]

Thanks for the tips.
Let's just forget about night time picture quality for a moment. Lol, for now, I am just concerned about daytime performance.
@mat200 I am trying to figure out how to get the right ppf like you suggested. How do I do that? Is it in the camera setting (surely not in blue Iris) or just placement and tilt adjustments?

 

[mat200]

Thanks for the tips.
Let's just forget about night time picture quality for a moment. Lol, for now, I am just concerned about daytime performance.
@mat200 I am trying to figure out how to get the right ppf like you suggested. How do I do that? Is it in the camera setting (surely not in blue Iris) or just placement and tilt adjustments?

It's gonna require some math on your part @markfoy

from the DORI section in the cliff notes:
The equation to calculate the Radius (the distance in feet) for identification for 100 ppf as discussed above: Radius = (( Horizontal Res / 100 ppf ) * ( 360 / Angle ))/2*Pi

Radius = distance from Camera to subject...

Thus once you have that, you then calculate the "angle" ( unknown at this time ), and then you have to do some basic construction worker trigonometry

you can also try IPVM calculator...

IPVM Designer / Calculator

Using Google Maps, layout and design cameras, choosing from 10,000+ models, delivering FoV and image quality previews plus export to PDF, Powerpoint and more

calculator.ipvm.com

iirc at 90 degrees a "4K" camera has an ID range of about 20 feet to the 100ppf density range. So chances are a subject would be close enough to the camera at 90 degrees to give you plenty of pixels.
( if so, you can not worry about the math part... )

Then it's a question of playing with the camera's tuning parameters for the best crispy image.
( shutter speed, bitrate, HDR/WDR, .. etc.. )