Quick and Dirty Comparison of: HDW4431C-A V2 HDW4433C-A HDW4631C-A HFW4431R-Z HFW5231R-Z HDW5231R-Z

Advertisement doesn't say anything about inability to upgrade. Software itself looks upgradable. Don't know if it will stay in English or not and not interested in testing it as it is working perfectly. From a quick reading about the Dahua hack, this affected all kinds of Dahua equipment across the board not just 'Chinese' versions. I will continue to read about it.

@mat200 The specs for both cams are readily available. They look the same to me. It would be too much to write them all here. Starvis CMOS, h.265, 6mp4k@20fps, ivs, onvif, WDR 120dB, ip67,-22-140F, the list of identical feautures goes on.

The big pic of what I'm trying to say is that what I got is identical to what's offered at a much higher price. Maybe there is a spec I'm missing but what matters to me most it's there. SCW has a neat article about the history of the security cam industry. 90%+ of the market belongs to China. SCW itself admits to get their cameras from China. Their best advise against hacking is to not be connected to the internet and that's what their government agency customers do. This advise is not just for a Chinese version of Dahua equipment but for all cameras of any manufacturer. It makes sense! Those who feel safe connected to the internet with their American (International) Dahua versions or any other equipment brand that's connected to the internet is naive or in denial. I have an 18 month warranty with the seller of my equipment. If after that something goes wrong I can try what Dahua customers did to get their functionality again. If that fails, I'd try my luck with another set up but based on what I see so far I got the best bang for my buck. I didn't see any camera out there in this price range coming even close to the specs of this lil beast. The NVR too for that price range it's unbeatable. I have room for three other cameras which I will choose later on as I become more knowledgeable.

I still need a good IR flood light, any thoughts?
 
Truth said:
Advertisement doesn't say anything about inability to upgrade. Software itself looks upgradable. Don't know if it will stay in English or not and not interested in testing it as it is working perfectly. From a quick reading about the Dahua hack, this affected all kinds of Dahua equipment across the board not just 'Chinese' versions. I will continue to read about it.

@mat200 The specs for both cams are readily available. They look the same to me. It would be too much to write them all here. Starvis CMOS, h.265, 6mp4k@20fps, ivs, onvif, WDR 120dB, ip67,-22-140F, the list of identical feautures goes on.

..
Click to expand...

@Truth were are you getting the spec information for the Chinese market camera? Do you have a reference?
 
Truth said:
Advertisement doesn't say anything about inability to upgrade. Software itself looks upgradable. Don't know if it will stay in English or not and not interested in testing it as it is working perfectly. From a quick reading about the Dahua hack, this affected all kinds of Dahua equipment across the board not just 'Chinese' versions. I will continue to read about it.

@mat200 The specs for both cams are readily available. They look the same to me. It would be too much to write them all here. Starvis CMOS, h.265, 6mp4k@20fps, ivs, onvif, WDR 120dB, ip67,-22-140F, the list of identical feautures goes on.

The big pic of what I'm trying to say is that what I got is identical to what's offered at a much higher price. Maybe there is a spec I'm missing but what matters to me most it's there. SCW has a neat article about the history of the security cam industry. 90%+ of the market belongs to China. SCW itself admits to get their cameras from China. Their best advise against hacking is to not be connected to the internet and that's what their government agency customers do. This advise is not just for a Chinese version of Dahua equipment but for all cameras of any manufacturer. It makes sense! Those who feel safe connected to the internet with their American (International) Dahua versions or any other equipment brand that's connected to the internet is naive or in denial. I have an 18 month warranty with the seller of my equipment. If after that something goes wrong I can try what Dahua customers did to get their functionality again. If that fails, I'd try my luck with another set up but based on what I see so far I got the best bang for my buck. I didn't see any camera out there in this price range coming even close to the specs of this lil beast. The NVR too for that price range it's unbeatable. I have room for three other cameras which I will choose later on as I become more knowledgeable.

I still need a good IR flood light, any thoughts?
Click to expand...
very easy, just post your link here, i can check fast for you, the sellers will never say firmware can't be updated.
 
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Go to ebay. Seller is security--cctv. Cam is:
Dahua IPC-HDW4631C-A 6MRecorder.c All Metal Dome Eyeball Security IP Camera 2.8mm.

NVR is:
Dahua Original Smart Mini NVR 4 CH POE 1U HD 4K 8MP H.265 Network Video Recorder.

Just read, vendor states equipment is original English firmware and it is upgradable. 100% positive feedback on ebay.
 
Truth said:
Go to ebay. Seller is security--cctv. Cam is:
Dahua IPC-HDW4631C-A 6MRecorder.c All Metal Dome Eyeball Security IP Camera 2.8mm.

NVR is:
Dahua Original Smart Mini NVR 4 CH POE 1U HD 4K 8MP H.265 Network Video Recorder.

Just read, vendor states equipment is original English firmware and it is upgradable. 100% positive feedback om ebay.
Click to expand...
this is not original english model at all, hacked model, so can't update, easy to check, just search on dahua website https://www.dahuasecurity.com/
NVR no problem.
 
I found this on the ebay page for the security--cctv IPC-HDW4631C-A:

Firmware：: Firmware unupdatable

It's a chinese market camera. I'm not trying to tell you whether to get it or not, just trying to see that you're aware of the pros and cons. I run a few chinese market cameras and quickly learned that you can't count on the specs in the advertisements being correct. Before picking a model I'd find 10 or so postings to see if there was a consensus of what the specs really were. It appeared that some sellers just found the first set of specs they could for the pixel density and posted that. Didn't matter if it was for the correct model or not.
 
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Truth said:
Go to ebay. Seller is security--cctv. Cam is:
Dahua IPC-HDW4631C-A 6MRecorder.c All Metal Dome Eyeball Security IP Camera 2.8mm.

NVR is:
Dahua Original Smart Mini NVR 4 CH POE 1U HD 4K 8MP H.265 Network Video Recorder.

Just read, vendor states equipment is original English firmware and it is upgradable. 100% positive feedback on ebay.
Click to expand...

Hi Truth,

So, You are using the specs provided by the vendor of the camera???
 
So my NVR is fine. Great (though according to this thread I'm not to trust the NVR description either). So the problem COULD be with the $70 cam. Well, but I do trust it so far because of three things: 1. Vendor description--that's how I would go by and have done for most (99%) of my purchases throughout my life. 2. Common sense--my hands on analysis of the item (extremely awesome image that is not 1080p or below, obvious hard metal casing, obvious mic functionality, etc) 3. The specs displayed by NVR and my 4k TV-- it's displaying at 4k! and so on.

So what I'm trying to say is that you can't get a $70 cam at bnh, SCW, or backstreet surveillance that has a hard metal casing, displays 4k quality on my tv, a microphone, etc. Your argument is that IF it gets hacked you can't upgrade it so you lose your $70. I say fine to that. It's a CON I'm willing to live with for $70. I wouldn't do the same for a $1500 camera BUT even then who can say for sure that there are unhackable cameras out there? That's where warranty, consumer ratings for the business and so on come into play...this vendor I got it from has 100% positive ratings and a 18+ month warranty, which passes my noob's test.

So I still think I got a great deal. IF the lil camera ever gets hacked, I'd try to fix it, IF that doesn't work and IF I'm out of warranty and IF the vendor won't do anything, THEN I'd get another camera losing the $70. Yep, that's a risk I'm willing to live with for the simple task of having an extra set of eyes in the front of my house.

Having said all of this TYVM for your feedback and I DO believe you have an excellent argument IF it's an expensive camera and you're guarding something very sensitive--NOT for the front door of a middle class family's house in a super peaceful neighborhood. Sorry @mat200 for not looking at other threads before asking a question.
 
Truth said:
.. Sorry @mat200 for not looking at other threads before asking a question.
Click to expand...

@Truth

Q: So, You are using the specs provided by the vendor of the camera???
A: [ this is the part you fill in ]

You're stating the Chinese market camera IS the same as the Dahua USA model sold in the US by vendors like B&H and others.

You've stated that the specs are the same.

I'm just looking for confirmation details which you state you've checked.

I looked for that vendor on ebay and was unable to find them in the 1st 2 pages of results for that camera model.
 

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Next item I quickly looked at also indicative of a vendor you should not trust, has all the typical warning signs I have seen from other vendors.

PAID reviews = distrust. You simply can not trust the positive results.

The vendor fails to identify the camera model - thus you should expect them to be selling the cheaper Chinese models, thus:

Unsuspecting customers also will not know that they're being sold Chinese market cameras in this kit, and think they are original English firmware which is upgradeable.
 

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@Truth

The vendor which you purchased from claims the camera you bought can do:
Intelligent Functions: Face Detection

have you been able to confirm this?
 
mat200 said:
2nd camera I looked at already had a discrepancy in the Ad...
Click to expand...
This is typical of the chinese market equipment ads and that in itself doesn't alarm me. I'm running 9 chinese market cameras and they are serving me well, with very good daytime images and less than stellar night images. For the reasons I mentioned earlier about the pros and cons having changed over the past year, I won't be adding any more chinese market cams, instead going with international starlights for about $50 more per camera.

My strategy for buying the chinese cams was:
1. Order a specific model # after independently verifying the specs and features. Don't trust the vendor's specs.
2. Avoid china post. I did that exactly one time. Takes too darn long. Go with dhl or stocked in USA.
3. Be prepared to eat the loss of one camera due to dishonest vendor, lost shipment, doa, etc.
4. Buy them one at a time to reduce the risk.
5. Try to find trustworthy vendors. For me it was more intuition than science.

I was lucky. All 9 of my chinese market cameras arrived ok and are still working perfectly. As a bonus, a resourceful individual made a firmware upgrade available that brought all of them up to the same UI and feature set as the international starlights. (That's no longer true as of a few weeks ago, with new international camera firmware providing automatic day/night profile switching. This is a big deal for me.)

When I starting building the system 2 years ago, the cheapest international starlight (a zoom model) was in the $200 ballpark, a $100+ premium over a chinese market camera. Now one can buy a non-zoom international starlight in the $120 ballpark. The game has changed, IMO. The one thing that hasn't changed is the chinese market camera prices are low enough that in the big picture of things it's not a huge risk, money-wise.
 
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My stuff was shipped from KY as tracked by UPS, it got here in 4 days including order day. Owner of that eBay account ships from China and stock he has in the USA as well. My cam and NVR are everything so far that they were made out to be. So I haven't seen any discrepancy. Obviously @mat200 you didn't know that someone can ship from China and the States without being a discrepancy. He has different ads some from China which are cheaper but it takes longer to arrive. So I repeat no discrepancy there. You ask about face detection, did you read anything I wrote? Because you also couldn't find cam specs either.

I'm not going to argue or defend this vendor or my purchase anymore. I spent $70 on a cam that is 4k, has a mic, all metal case, and poe to name a few things that I know for sure it has. I'm happy with it! These features that I mentioned are enough to make me happy! I'm using it to keep an extra set of eyes on my front door. I'm not into specific specs that I'm never planning to use. I know there are plenty of cams out there for the same price that are way less quality than this one.

Tigerwillow1 explains his approach to buying a Chinese cam and it has worked for him and it has worked for me too.

You mention he has paid reviews...I can tell you for a fact mine ain't and he got a 5 star rating too from me. He gives 18 months warranty on his stuff. Maybe EMPIRETECANDY is not the only well intended vendor in the world. Maybe there are others even on eBay who mean well and want to keep their customers happy. Worse case scenario I lose the $70 bucks but nothing indicates that to me so far. Your approach is that I'm duped but I dont see that so far. I didn't buy my cam because of some obscure spec like you pros may do, I bought it for some simple specs that I have found to be true. Like when I bought my Infiniti sedan, I didn't check every spec in the car and haven't tested every feature but it sure speeds better than a Camry and low entry BMWs. Maybe I'm in the wrong forum. Maybe I'm talking happy feelings about my new car with a bunch of car engineers and I should be just in a forum with noobs happy about their new car. Still I'm pretty sure so far I got the car and the cam I wanted but I couldn't tell you all the specs of my car or this $70 cam neither do I want to spend more time on it.

Tigerwillow1 mentions that specific starlight close in price but that cam beats mine during night time not daytime quality, a tradeoff someone who cares more about night time quality may choose so it's not apples to apples.
 
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Truth said:
My stuff was shipped from KY as tracked by UPS, it got here in 4 days including order day. Owner of that eBay account ships from China and stock he has in the USA as well. My cam and NVR are everything so far that they were made out to be. So I haven't seen any discrepancy. Obviously @mat200 you didn't know that someone can ship from China and the States without being a discrepancy. He has different ads some from China which are cheaper but it takes longer to arrive. So I repeat no discrepancy there. You ask about face detection, did you read anything I wrote? Because you also couldn't find cam specs either...
Click to expand...

Hi @Truth

You're purposefully ignoring questions I have asked to help determine if what you have stated is true.

Your statement / claim:
The Chinese market camera: Dahua ipc-hdw4631c-a is the SAME as the 6MP N64CG53 camera sold by B&H and others in the USA but $120 cheaper.
"They look the same to me. It would be too much to write them all here. Starvis CMOS, h.265, 6mp4k@20fps, ivs, onvif, WDR 120dB, ip67,-22-140F, the list of identical feautures goes on."

Again:

The vendor which you purchased from claims the camera you bought can do:
Intelligent Functions: Face Detection

have you been able to confirm this?
 
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The turn this thread is taking is not coherent because of you @mat200. Here is why: the author of this thread shares his experiences about this and other cams and asks for feedback. I share my experience and ask for feedback. Part of the feedback I ask for is about a cam that has similar/same specs as the N64CG53, (which is actually the one with the 3.6mm lens); the N64CG52 is the 2.8mm lens. I'm comparing specs I see for both on 'paper'. If you read well you'd see that I ask, not state as you incorrectly write, quoting me wrong. In another post I even say maybe I'm missing a spec but they look identical. All along I'm asking a spec to spec comparison based on vendors description allowing for the possibility that I'm missing something or might be wrong...LEARN TO READ @mat200.

Having said this you @mat200 change the topic of my posts into an issue of vendor credibility, equipment review and now your lack of respect due to your poor reading skills and/or plain disrespectful character into me PURPOSEFULLY IGNORING your questions. I disagree. You are the one who is repeatedly ignoring (whether purposefully or just due to plain poor reading skills) my requests.

If you want to coherently interact with me on this thread, limit yourself to comparing both cams' specs and see if I missed something. If you want to do a study on the credibility of security--cctv on Ebay, be my guest but that's not why I'm here posting and your quick analysis of his store leaves much to be desired. Moving on to equipment review. I'm not here either to review this equipment nor to report whether the vendors stated specs are accurate or not. @EMPIRETECANDY sends @looney2ns a cam and he reviews it based on his hands on experience of the equipment. I'm not here for that. If you are so interested maybe you can buy the cam from security--cctv yourself and rate his shipping equipment geographical point of origin, whether indeed shipping is free, whether your review of him is paid or heartfelt, and finally whether the equipment's stated specs are indeed the actual ones. Be my guest. I, certainly, did not sign up here to be an equipment hands on reviewer like @looney2ns (I read a real well done review he did btw).

To summarize, look at both cams' vendor stated specs, see if there is any difference (which I give room for, unlike what you write I stated), and tell me about it. Also, tell me about a good IR flood light if you want. Or let someone else do it because it was an open forum last I checked and I wasn't directing my requests specifically at you.
 
Truth said:
The turn this thread is taking is not coherent because of you @mat200. Here is why: the author of this thread shares his experiences about this and other cams and asks for feedback. I share my experience and ask for feedback. Part of the feedback I ask for is about a cam that has similar/same specs as the N64CG53, (which is actually the one with the 3.6mm lens); the N64CG52 is the 2.8mm lens. I'm comparing specs I see for both on 'paper'. If you read well you'd see that I ask, not state as you incorrectly write, quoting me wrong. In another post I even say maybe I'm missing a spec but they look identical. All along I'm asking a spec to spec comparison based on vendors description allowing for the possibility that I'm missing something or might be wrong...LEARN TO READ @mat200.
..
Click to expand...

Hi @Truth,

Do to numerous spammers and fraudsters and fans of those fraudsters ( this includes unsuspecting customers ) coming here to this forum as well as other forums providing false claims designed to increase sales of Chinese region cameras or poor quality products ( like numerous lesser known brands, as well as well known brands like zmodo / funlux, reolink ) to additional unsuspecting customers we have to be vigilante when people like yourself come here and claim: THIS super affordable camera from a Chinese vendor is JUST like one of the top model international or USA market camera which is sold for a lot more.

You came here claiming that, and are still claiming that - stating that you are a noob:
"Hi this is my first post, I'm a total noob!" - Thursday 2:28PM IPC-HDW4631C-A - any thoughts?

Again, the questions I have brought up have been to determine IF in fact the camera ( ipc-hdw4631c-a ) you claim to be equivalent to the US market Dahua N64CG53 is.

Clearly you find my questioning and attempts to determine this offensive.

As you should know, and as I as well as others have pointed out, YOU can not trust specs provided by vendors - that you need to confirm any information from advertisements.
( in fact here is a recent example of a member defrauded by a Chinese vendor of Dahua IP cameras Corridor setup Dahua IPC-HFW4433F-ZSA 4MP Starlight Bullet Varifocal )

WHICH leads me to suspect your intentions here.

Now I am wondering, reviewing your posting history, if
A) You are truly a noob based in the USA, or
B) You are an agent of the ebay vendor attempting to astroturf here.


I do welcome people to actually read your posts verbatim and thus they are referenced here:

  1. Post
    Quick and Dirty Comparison of: HDW4431C-A V2 HDW4433C-A HDW4631C-A HFW4431R-Z HFW5231R-Z HDW5231R-Z
    The turn this thread is taking is not coherent because of you @mat200. Here is why: the author of this thread shares his experiences about this...
    Post by: Truth, 19 minutes ago in forum: Dahua

  2. Post
    Quick and Dirty Comparison of: HDW4431C-A V2 HDW4433C-A HDW4631C-A HFW4431R-Z HFW5231R-Z HDW5231R-Z
    My stuff was shipped from KY as tracked by UPS, it got here in 4 days including order day. Owner of that eBay account ships from China and stock...
    Post by: Truth, Yesterday at 1:20 PM in forum: Dahua

  3. Post
    IPC-HDW4631C-A - any thoughts?
    Ok I'll take time and energy to reply. The person in charge of security--cctv ships from Walton, Kentucky and from China as well. If it's...
    Post by: Truth, Yesterday at 12:44 PM in forum: Dahua

  4. Post
    Quick and Dirty Comparison of: HDW4431C-A V2 HDW4433C-A HDW4631C-A HFW4431R-Z HFW5231R-Z HDW5231R-Z
    So my NVR is fine. Great (though according to this thread I'm not to trust the NVR description either). So the problem COULD be with the $70 cam....
    Post by: Truth, Friday at 4:15 AM in forum: Dahua

  5. Post
    Quick and Dirty Comparison of: HDW4431C-A V2 HDW4433C-A HDW4631C-A HFW4431R-Z HFW5231R-Z HDW5231R-Z
    Go to ebay. Seller is security--cctv. Cam is: Dahua IPC-HDW4631C-A 6MRecorder.c All Metal Dome Eyeball Security IP Camera 2.8mm. NVR is: Dahua...
    Post by: Truth, Thursday at 7:26 PM in forum: Dahua

  6. Post
    Quick and Dirty Comparison of: HDW4431C-A V2 HDW4433C-A HDW4631C-A HFW4431R-Z HFW5231R-Z HDW5231R-Z
    Advertisement doesn't say anything about inability to upgrade. Software itself looks upgradable. Don't know if it will stay in English or not...
    Post by: Truth, Thursday at 6:43 PM in forum: Dahua

  7. Post
    Quick and Dirty Comparison of: HDW4431C-A V2 HDW4433C-A HDW4631C-A HFW4431R-Z HFW5231R-Z HDW5231R-Z
    Also what I said about that camera from bnh has to do with the look and specs...they seem identical. So identical looks and identical specs...
    Post by: Truth, Thursday at 4:17 PM in forum: Dahua

  8. Post
    Quick and Dirty Comparison of: HDW4431C-A V2 HDW4433C-A HDW4631C-A HFW4431R-Z HFW5231R-Z HDW5231R-Z
    I'm a little confused. How do I know for sure (if there's a way) whether I have an international vs Chinese cam? Software has the option to...
    Post by: Truth, Thursday at 4:03 PM in forum: Dahua

  9. Post
    Quick and Dirty Comparison of: HDW4431C-A V2 HDW4433C-A HDW4631C-A HFW4431R-Z HFW5231R-Z HDW5231R-Z
    Hi this is my first post, I'm a total noob! Interested in a security cam, looked online and found out that SCW makes some great stuff but seemed...
    Post by: Truth, Thursday at 2:42 PM in forum: Dahua

  10. Post
    IPC-HDW4631C-A - any thoughts?
    Hi this is my first post, I'm a total noob! Interested in a security cam, looked online and found out that SCW makes some great stuff but seemed...
    Post by: Truth, Thursday at 2:28 PM in forum: Dahua
 
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Truth said:
I'm not going to argue or defend this vendor or my purchase anymore.
Click to expand...
Good strategy IMO. You heard the arguments and took the risk, and now you live with it. My rationalization for going with mostly chinese market cameras was that with my initial budget I could deploy about 10 chinese market cams or maybe half that many starlights. Now that the system is operational I see its value is greater than I anticipated, and had I know that 2 years ago, I maybe would have stretched the budget some. But as a catch-22, that value has been provided by having chinese market cameras overlooking much of a multi-acre property. (There haven't been any breakin attempts or similar, the biggest value has been in tracking the virtual zoo of animals that treks through, mostly at night). I received my 3rd starlight a few days ago and put it up next to a 4mp chinese market camera. Same story as in the past, the 4mp camera shows more detail during the day, the startlight shows more at night. I want both! What to do? (1) Spend $500 or whatever on a camera that does both, or (2) Keep them both up side-by-side as my wife suggested. The likely answer is to sit tight until the camera that does both comes down in price. I'm in the process of transitioning to external IR now which should help the chinese market cameras do better at night. The biggest threat is getting squeezed by dahua with the new firmware. Wish they weren't doing that!
 
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