4mp cams

[Razer]

Ok, here are several shots to show what the 4mp camera is doing. I have WDR off and on for default settings and DelBoys settings. I also have a 3mp bullet same thing, but just default settings as it gets the point across just fine. I did also try my 4mp camera at 50hz but no changes to the image even after full reboot and the like.

So, 4mp WDR off.

4mp WDR on at 50.

4mp WDR off DelBoy settings.

4mp DelBoy WDR on.

3mp WDR off.

3mp WDR on at 50. (yay, WDR works!)

Also, look at the odd half moon the 4mp camera gave near the door in the non del boy settings when WDR was on. In the DelBoy shots you see it over in the center window. That is the WDR trying to knock down the bright spots I assume but it looks horrible! The camera moved off of where I had it propped or they would have been the same, but interesting to see the WDR doing it in more than one situation too.

Overall the 3mp is winning hands down so far. Hoping firmware will fix this.

 

[Del Boy]

Thanks for this Razer, shows it perfectly.

You can see the trees in the first window with 4MP my settings and WDR on. You can't with the 3MP WDR on or off. Also check out the light-switch. That is the WDR working.

That half moon is horrible! Yours is definitely more washed out than mine. Is that ceiling right on the 4MP and wrong on the 3MP or vice-versa?

I'll have a play tomorrow. Sun is due here, I'll get a 3MP down and put them side by side.

 

[jimmyt]

you were correct - 50hz gives me the 1/25 option

That's probably because I am in Europe so mine is 50Hz. Just to eliminate this, can you set to 50Hz and see what happens?

When I turn WDR OFF then my saturation is too high so all the colours get too vivid (expected) but overall the picture is darker. The opposite of what you are getting.

 

[BK0001]

I'm holding off on the new 4MP while you guys help sort this out. But I have to say, the 4MP pics look terrible, with the circle, jagged edges on the door. yes, I do see the trees in the 4MP, and that is indeed interesting. I will be using these primarily outside so my selfish bias is for you guys to figure out whether WDR is workable and better 4MP vs. 3MP outside. Thanks for your testing on all of our behalf!

 

[tradertim]

Klasipca, or others can I swap some experiences with you?

I've got 2x2142 4Mp and 2x2132 3MP.

THE PICTURE

I put the 2142 4MP in, in the weekend, after experiencing the ghosting issue in test on the bench, you guys flagged the noise reduction below 50 in another one of my threads. I confirm as well the settings on the 4Mp are different to the 3Mp as commented by Razor.

I' still trying to decide what I think about the night time picture, I bought it due to the 0.01 lux lower light capability as my driveway is a long way from any street light and quite dark.

I can see a shadow where the 2132 overlaps the 2142 implying that the night IR LED might be stronger on the 2132 3Mp.

When I get time I'll post some pics. So far I'm not WOWED by the 4MP over the 3MP at night with the picture.

BANDWIDTH

Now when I access the cameras from TinyCam Monitor Pro and cannot get all cameras at the same time. First time thats ever happened and I think I'm expiring my uplink broadband capacity.

The rudimentary report on my TinyCAM Monitor pro seems to indicate 1000kBps which = 1MBps which = 8Mbps (megabits) which is probably about right for a 4Mp camera?
I've set it to 15 fps and the 4Mp resolution.

Considering ive got one other 2132 3Mp and two 3Mp cubes which report 500kBps which = .5MBps which = 4Mbps (megabits) each I think I'm expiring my uplink capacity of ~11Mbps on my fixed broadband eg I cant get all the info on the uplink simultaneously to then get it on the downlink on my mobile or broadband at home.

Are you having these experiences?
Are my calcs roughly right?
What are my options??

I was going to experiment with the H264+, and maybe dialing the 4Mp resolution back?

What your opinion of 10fps instead of 15?

cheers

 

[klasipca]

Klasipca, or others can I swap some experiences with you?

I've got 2x2142 4Mp and 2x2132 3MP.

THE PICTURE

I put the 2142 4MP in, in the weekend, after experiencing the ghosting issue in test on the bench, you guys flagged the noise reduction below 50 in another one of my threads. I confirm as well the settings on the 4Mp are different to the 3Mp as commented by Razor.

I' still trying to decide what I think about the night time picture, I bought it due to the 0.01 lux lower light capability as my driveway is a long way from any street light and quite dark.

I can see a shadow where the 2132 overlaps the 2142 implying that the night IR LED might be stronger on the 2132 3Mp.

When I get time I'll post some pics. So far I'm not WOWED by the 4MP over the 3MP at night with the picture.

BANDWIDTH

Now when I access the cameras from TinyCam Monitor Pro and cannot get all cameras at the same time. First time thats ever happened and I think I'm expiring my uplink broadband capacity.

The rudimentary report on my TinyCAM Monitor pro seems to indicate 1000kBps which = 1MBps which = 8Mbps (megabits) which is probably about right for a 4Mp camera?
I've set it to 15 fps and the 4Mp resolution.

Considering ive got one other 2132 3Mp and two 3Mp cubes which report 500kBps which = .5MBps which = 4Mbps (megabits) each I think I'm expiring my uplink capacity of ~11Mbps on my fixed broadband eg I cant get all the info on the uplink simultaneously to then get it on the downlink on my mobile or broadband at home.

Are you having these experiences?
Are my calcs roughly right?
What are my options??

I was going to experiment with the H264+, and maybe dialing the 4Mp resolution back?

What your opinion of 10fps instead of 15?

cheers

10fps or 15fps won't be too much difference, but I use 2nd channel (non hd) when viewing my cams in tiny cam pro. Also there is Low Bandwidth mode you can try.

I have long drive and I am not wow'd by 4MP camera either, it's definitely better then 3MP turret it replaced, but not enough. I am, however, wowed by the Huisun PTZ for driveway coverage.

 

[tradertim]

10fps or 15fps won't be too much difference, but I use 2nd channel (non hd) when viewing my cams in tiny cam pro. Also there is Low Bandwidth mode you can try.

I have long drive and I am not wow'd by 4MP camera either, it's definitely better then 3MP turret it replaced, but not enough. I am, however, wowed by the Huisun PTZ for driveway coverage.

Will the 10fps still be okay for number plates and movement as opposed to 15fps??

The cameras have paid for themselves with capturing this women turning to do a three point turn and hit the wall. Didn't bother checking for any damage and drove off.

View attachment showing car hit wall 2.jpg

The 3MP Camera follows and has settings resolution 1920x1080p, bitrate variable, video quality highest, frame rate 15, max bit rate 4096, video encoding h264, frame interval 15 svc off, image adjustment all 50, exposure setting 1/25 gain 80, smartIR off, backlight settings WDR 7, image digital noise reduction on 50.

Any suggestions to improve. I still have to tilt down slightly to get rid of IR reflection. But I think I'll need a external IR but they are so ugly.



The 4mp cAMERA has settings resolution 1920x1080p , bitrate variable, video quality highest, frame rate 10 , max bitrate 6144, video encoding h264, frame interval 10 smoothing 50, image adjustment all 50, exposure settings 1/12 gain 51, day light switch smart IR off, backligt settings off , digital noise reduction 30.



In actual fact maybe I was a little harsh on the 4MP as when you see them together the 4mp is a better night photo eh?

 

[Michelin Man]

Is your 2132 the I or the F model?

 

[tradertim]

The 3mp 2132 is a ds-2cd2132F-IS.

 

[Michelin Man]

Interesting, the 2132-I model was known for IR reflections. The 2132F supposedly fixed that issue (I have a 2132F 2.8mm and don't have that issue).

What you could try is to add another layer of black foam around the one that is already there on the lens try and get it as close to the glass as possible.

 

[Del Boy]

Interesting, the 2132-I model was known for IR reflections. The 2132F supposedly fixed that issue (I have a 2132F 2.8mm and don't have that issue).

What you could try is to add another layer of black foam around the one that is already there on the lens try and get it as close to the glass as possible.

You will always get IR reflections from walls.

 

[tradertim]

hey thanks. the IR reflection issue I was talking about was more with respect to tilting the camera down slightly to minimise the soffet reflection. Yes I know the walls arent ideal but I bought the camera before I realised it didnt pan.

I have another 2.8mm 4Mp that i bought to potentially swap this one out, originally for the low lux capability to try to improve the drive night view with some clarity. And I'll reuse the 3Mp else where.

The 4mp have an opportunity to pan and so I might be able to optimise away from the walls and get more of the plastered wall that people like to drive into!

 

[wxman]

Razer's latest post seems to confirm my initial speculation that the 3mp digital WDR performs differently than the 4mp True WDR, yet neither are giving an ideal result.

The 4mp true WDR is certainly darkening the bright/overexposed areas (as evidence by the trees being visible outside the window with WDR on), but it seems to do nothing toward lightening the dark/underexposed areas inside the room (particularly the shadow under the table)......On the other hand, the 3mp digital WDR is doing the exact opposite. It lightens the dark/underexposed areas in the room, but does nothing toward darkening the light/overexposed area outside the window (ie. can't see the trees)...The results that I would have expected of the True WDR would have been to do both (lighten the dark areas in the room while darkening the bright areas outside the window)...That is what happens on the Sony Effio-P Analog cams with 120db True WDR, like the example I posted a few days ago.

The way I see it at this point is the model you need to get would depend heavily on whether your would have issues with underexposure or overexposure.....If your image is overexposed/blown out in important areas, then the 4mp is best...If your image is too dark/underexposed in important areas, the 3mp would be best. If you have equal problems with both overexposure and underexposure, then neither one is going to be ideal.

Of course there is the benefit of slightly higher resolution and lower LUX at night on the 4mp, but not quite sure these improvements are going to be worth the price difference for many folks.

 

[MartyO]

One thing I'm wondering is if the WDR is for real, can peoples monitor accurately reproduce. In other words, maybe the unwanted reproduction is because of your monitor. The different cameras have different bias points.

 

[MartyO]

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/dynamic-range.htm


Interesting how cameras and monitors are different.

 

[Del Boy]

The 4mp true WDR is certainly darkening the bright/overexposed areas (as evidence by the trees being visible outside the window with WDR on), but it seems to do nothing toward lightening the dark/underexposed areas inside the room (particularly the shadow under the table)......On the other hand, the 3mp digital WDR is doing the exact opposite. It lightens the dark/underexposed areas in the room, but does nothing toward darkening the light/overexposed area outside the window (ie. can't see the trees)...The results that I would have expected of the True WDR would have been to do both (lighten the dark areas in the room while darkening the bright areas outside the window)...That is what happens on the Sony Effio-P Analog cams with 120db True WDR, like the example I posted a few days ago.

The way I see it at this point is the model you need to get would depend heavily on whether your would have issues with underexposure or overexposure.....If your image is overexposed/blown out in important areas, then the 4mp is best...If your image is too dark/underexposed in important areas, the 3mp would be best. If you have equal problems with both overexposure and underexposure, then neither one is going to be ideal.

Of course there is the benefit of slightly higher resolution and lower LUX at night on the 4mp, but not quite sure these improvements are going to be worth the price difference for many folks.

Agreed. I'm still waiting for a sunny day when I'm free. I think I don't get the same shadows here during an Autumn day in Great Blighty! It should be doing better with shadows in the pics from the peeps from across the Atlantic.

 

[MartyO]

http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/by-test-results/contrast-ratio


Look like TVs are better than computer monitors, backlite anytype don't display darks as good as they do bright.

 

[MartyO]

[h=2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrast_ratio

Contrast ratio in a real room[edit][/h]In marketing literature, contrast ratios for emissive (as opposed to reflective) displays are always measured under the optimum condition of a room in total darkness. In typical viewing situations, the contrast ratio is significantly lower due to the reflection of light from the surface of the display, making it harder to distinguish between different devices with very high contrast ratios.[SUP][4][/SUP] How much the room light reduces the contrast ratio depends on the luminance of the display, as well as the amount of light reflecting off the display.[SUP][5][/SUP]
A clean print at a typical movie theater may have a contrast ratio of 500:1,[SUP][6][/SUP] while a modern computer LCD monitor is typically at 1000:1,[SUP][7][/SUP] and TVs might be over 4000:1.[SUP][8][/SUP] Dynamic contrast ratio is usually measured at factory with two panels (one versus another) of the same model as each panel will have an inherent dark and light (hot) spot. Static is usually measured with the same screen showing half screen full bright vs half screen full dark. This usually results in a lower ratio as brightness will creep into the dark area of the screen thus giving a higher luminance.

 

[MartyO]

After reading a little about digital photography and then playing with brightness, contrast and gamma on my cheap ASUS monitor I have concluded that all of razor pictures can be improved, this is simple for an NVR, for a PC running other things it may degrade the other things running. on the other hand a graphic card might provide additional help so the PC option might be better for WDR cameras, as NVR probably don't have options. Photographers play with gamma a lot when they have wdr images.

 

[fenderman]

After reading a little about digital photography and then playing with brightness, contrast and gamma on my cheap ASUS monitor I have concluded that all of razor pictures can be improved, this is simple for an NVR, for a PC running other things it may degrade the other things running. on the other hand a graphic card might provide additional help so the PC option might be better for WDR cameras, as NVR probably don't have options. Photographers play with gamma a lot when they have wdr images.

How does changing monitor settings affect the camera in any way.. A graphics card on a pc makes no difference... Most pc based vms simply records the cameras h.264 steam with no recoding...

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