A reason to add one more camera

[mat200]

Unable to find a good image capture from that Ring video capture...







Nice the get away car in the background

 

[Sparky19053]

Wow, that is some scary stuff. I'd like to be on the other side of the door with one shotgun shell for em both. Shame on the carpenter that installed the door. The door held up in the frame but not the install.

 

[sebastiantombs]

In fairness to whoever installed that door, if you watch the video you can see the frame flexing with each kick or hit. That would, eventually, lead to any nails being pulled a little further and further with each hit. If the frame of the door, which looks to be about eight feet wide overall, hadn't flexed like that it wouldn't have failed. That's the problem with a large pre-hung door like that, there are no framing members at the key points, hinge and lock set sides of the door. Yes, they may be doubled up five quarter, but nothing like a 2x4 or 2x6 in terms of strength.

 

[looney2ns]

I already have 7 cameras but this just happened in our neighborhood. I have pondered getting a cam for LPR but when I saw this at a neighbor's house I ordered a cam for LPR from Andy. When I started out I could never have imagined having 8 cameras. These bastards were really determined to break in this door:

Ring #AlwaysHome

Check out this video! I just captured it with my Ring Camera!

ring.com

The contractor that installed that door needs to go back to school, apparently very few fasteners used, and none in the top of the frame.
That wasn't the wall that caved in, it was the door assembly with side lite glass.

 

[looney2ns]

We have these for our man doors:

Door Armor Max Combo Set

Ultimate door security and kick-in protection. Comes complete with 1 Door Armor Jamb Shield, 2 Mini Door Shields, 2 Hinge Shields and 17 3-1/2-inch self-tapping screws. $500 Lifetime Guarantee. Installation time: about 30 minutes. Save $5 each when you purchase 2 or more (of the same color) or...

www.armorconcepts.com

Wouldn't of helped in this case, the entire door assembly was poorly installed.
A unit similar to this.

 

[looney2ns]

I don't know your laws but I would have thought that as soon as it became apparent it wasn't law enforcement and they were in the act of kicking the door in, it became a home invasion and defendable. Subject to lawful authority to do so, I would have shot the guy in red through the glass panel, not waited for the door to actually cave.

Laws on this vary greatly, know your local laws front and back.

 

[looney2ns]

But even if it is stolen, it may be possible that they are still using the car and giving that info to the police would help, even if they abandoned it there might be other evidence inside.


Also an emotional standpoint. My friend talked about how the stress of the whole situation, from that night having to deal with everything (including his family), to the media drama, to the legal proceedings and then the law suit, was unbearable. Then on top of that he has to deal with the fact that he took another's life, and while he was not prosecuted, the person was not intending to do him harm. He has to live with that. He has to live with how others treat him that know of the incident. People that have never been in that situation can be assholes with their quick judgement and big mouths. Especially people that are anti-gun.

If you own a gun, this is why you MUST take good training. And refresher training. And know your laws. Not a bad idea to have something like this as well. CCW Safe - Legal Service Membership Plan for CCW Permit/License Holders

 

[looney2ns]

In fairness to whoever installed that door, if you watch the video you can see the frame flexing with each kick or hit. That would, eventually, lead to any nails being pulled a little further and further with each hit. If the frame of the door, which looks to be about eight feet wide overall, hadn't flexed like that it wouldn't have failed. That's the problem with a large pre-hung door like that, there are no framing members at the key points, hinge and lock set sides of the door. Yes, they may be doubled up five quarter, but nothing like a 2x4 or 2x6 in terms of strength.

Nails suck for such instant-ices, hardened 3.5" screws all around with proper shims/blocking.

 

[sebastiantombs]

That's nice in theory, but I've only seen screws used in hinges and lock plates in normal installations. To further complicate an installation like that, the frame is multiple pieces that are nailed, and possibly glued, but are generally butt or tenon joints which will come apart under that kind of assault. Screwing in the outer frame, if the rest of it is nailed, is pointless. Watching the video you can see the frame members failing, from blow to blow, along both sides of the door. Either way, it was going down.

 

[mat200]

After watching the video, there's a lot to learn:

1) Strengthen doors
2) Alarms
3) Mo cameras, lots mo cameras. More cameras covering the street, LPR cameras, more cameras low enough to catch faces..
4) move sensors for alerts further out..
5) Dog(s)
6) and the usual pro-2A message... when the police are 15min away, or unavailable due to riots or politics.. you're the first defender.

 

[cepler]

Unable to find a good image capture from that Ring video capture...

What about from the NEST cam? Isn't that what this is:

 

[looney2ns]

What about from the NEST cam? Isn't that what this is:

View attachment 69991

Would not be any be any better capture. if you want to get good face IDs, you have to buy good cameras not the toys that everybody fawns over.

 

[CCTVCam]

g-shock alarms on the door might of helped set off out door lights/siren. I believe my Schlage Connect smart door has g-shock sensor (kicking of door, sensor). I have not yet integrated into Home Assistant yet but when I do, it will set off alarms or notifications or my wifi sprinkler system (one zone will be directed at front door), etc.
Wish it would automatically fly my DJI drone to follow or buzz around...that would be cool

I imagine an alarm, floodlight that turn ons and maybe a blue flashing police style light would be very effective in making 99% run off immediately.

In fairness to whoever installed that door, if you watch the video you can see the frame flexing with each kick or hit. That would, eventually, lead to any nails being pulled a little further and further with each hit. If the frame of the door, which looks to be about eight feet wide overall, hadn't flexed like that it wouldn't have failed. That's the problem with a large pre-hung door like that, there are no framing members at the key points, hinge and lock set sides of the door. Yes, they may be doubled up five quarter, but nothing like a 2x4 or 2x6 in terms of strength.

That's why in the UK installers use frame anchor bolts that expand into the brickwork.

Wouldn't of helped in this case, the entire door assembly was poorly installed.
A unit similar to this.
View attachment 69963

The main weakness of UPVC doors is the decorative panels as were rarely 1 piece. eg look at the panel in the bottom 1/2 of the door here:

http://www.conservatory-village.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/upvc-door-front.jpg

These can be kicked out as the panel is just held in with internal beading.

In the UK there's a tranisiton to 1 piece and the use of composite doors wich are often wood doors with a fibreglass outer giving the strength of wood but the weather resistance of upvc. Only caveat here is cheap doors are sometimes just fibre board filled and not a full wooden door behind the fibre glass. Old tale, be careful about what you're buying.

eg.

https://www.premierwindows.uk.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/comptemporary-grey-composite-door-737x1024.jpg

http://www.daisywindowsltd.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/composite-doors/20141118_115148.jpg

The other option for high security is one designed for commercial use some of these are steel reinforced.

 

[wtimothyholman]

That would not help in this case. The lock never failed, the jamb never failed. The whole door/wall unit came down.

Shooting someone through an exterior door is never a good idea. You can't get a good sight picture, can't see what is behind them, and you might miss.

Back in the 90's, a guy that I worked with shot a guy through his door and killed him. There had been numerous kick-door home invasions in the area for weeks. This guy and his friend were drunk and thought someone was after them and started pounding on his front door. When he went to the door, the guys had hid as the car they were trying to avoid came by. One of them then hopped the fence and went to the back yard and banged on the back door. My friend shot him through the door thinking he was trying to get in. His wife had already called the police. You can imagine the confusion, being woken up, pounding at the front door, catching a glimpse of some guy hopping the fence to your backyard, banging on the back door. While he was never charged with a crime, he had large legal bills, media attention, and was then sued by the guy's family.

Where I live, there are a lot of AirBnBs. Back before COVID-19 gutted the AirBnB and tourism markets, once every couple of weeks someone would post an incident on NextDoor where some drunken tourist tried to force his way into the wrong home. No one was ever shot, but it could have easily happened. Fortunately for the tourists, most of the people living in the midtown area are staunchly liberal and aren't armed.

When I took my CCP class, the instructor emphasized that while you could possibly avoid arrest if you shot someone trying to force in your door (arguing that you were in fear of your life due to break-ins in your neighborhood), the consequences of firing without knowing who was on the other side might ruin your life regardless. So personally I would never use deadly force unless the guy was inside my home, and I was certain of my target.

 

[samplenhold]

So personally I would never use deadly force unless the guy was inside my home, and I was certain of my target.

Rule 4: Identify your target, and what is behind it. It would be kind of hard to ID the target through a door, unless the door was clear glass.

Rule 3: Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target (I like to add 'and you have decided to fire'). Kind of hard to have the sights on a target if that target is on the other side of a door, unless the door is clear glass.

 

[CCTVCam]

Rule 4: Identify your target, and what is behind it. It would be kind of hard to ID the target through a door, unless the door was clear glass.

Rule 3: Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target (I like to add 'and you have decided to fire'). Kind of hard to have the sights on a target if that target is on the other side of a door, unless the door is clear glass.

On Rule 4 I agree, although hopefully you'd have seen on CCTV it wasn't the police or anyone friendly and the fact your entire front door and frame was rocking out of the wall would give some indication they weren't friendly.

On Rule 3, yep always know your target and even more importantly your background, plus local laws ie if in the US, know what your jurisdiction permits for engagement and if in the UK pick up a feather duster not a gun and make sure it hasn't got a hard stick down the middle. Don't forget to smile whilst you watch your life being stolen as being pleasant maintains their human rights and feelings.

Remember: Burglary is their career and it's important not to persecute people in the workplace.

 

[looney2ns]

 

[CCTVCam]

Although none of this is applicable to the UK, I like watching videos by John Carrera (Active Self Protection) on Youtube as he analyses incidents and identifies mistakes and what could been done better both from a safety and legal perspective. Always some good lessons to be learnt both to safeguard your life and freedom from incidents that have occured. All academic to me as I have to fight with the feather duster, but at least I know where I stand if our laws ever change.

 

[looney2ns]

Although none of this is applicable to the UK, I like watching videos by John Carrera (Active Self Protection) on Youtube as he analyses incidents and identifies mistakes and what could been done better both from a safety and legal perspective. Always some good lessons to be learnt both to safeguard your life and freedom from incidents that have occured. All academic to me as I have to fight with the feather duster, but at least I know where I stand if our laws ever change.

Yep, John's the man.

 

[djernie]

I wonder why she waited to scream when they got inside. As long as it took them to get in she could have screamed and scared them off sooner. Just my hind sight thinking, but we can all say what we would have done until something happens to us. Ring is okay for somethings, crappy for identification. I do not use ring cameras but i did recently place one at my sisters home to aid her in seeing who is at the door and speaking with them. She recently had a stroke and the ring was the easiest thing to put in on short notice.