Adding Nvidia GPU to Blue Iris and Code Project AI Install

[Ookie]

I'm in the process of building a PC for Blue Iris and Code Project AI. Just wondering how difficult it will be to add an Nvidia GPU card at a later date.

It will likely be an Intel Core i7-14700K 3.4 GHz 20-Core-based system built in a Mini-ITX case.

Ideally, I would move the GeForce 1080i from my desktop PC to the Blue Iris box.

Desktop would get a 4090 Founder's Edition. As you guys know, NVIDIA cards are near impossible to come by right now, especially the 4090.

I'm just wondering if I can start out right now using only the integrated GPU (Intel UHD Graphics 770) for Code Project AI and then add the Nvidia GPU a few months later without issues.

I see quite a few threads here with the AI modules failing to recognize certain GPUs, necessitating a re-install. Just wondering how likely this would be, and how many issues are caused by having to do a reinstall.

 

[wittaj]

Unless you plan to run every camera (how many) with CodeProject, a 14th gen is probably more than adequate to run the CPU version.

From my observations of all the issues with CodeProject, they seem to be more with the GPU version than the CPU version. It just appears the CPU version is more stable if not for every camera.

Most of us use the camera AI and only run BI AI for dumb cameras or for a specific need.

 

[Ookie]

Thanks for the prompt and detailed reply. Total facepalm on my end for not including details about the cameras. Mea culpa.

Will be a max of 20 cameras, more likely 12-16. It will be a mix of 8MP and 4MP LTS/Hik stuff.

I would say 4-8 of them at most will require AI. All of those 4-8 will have Hikvison's built in AI, but I haven't had the greatest success with that.

From what I see here, a lot of you guys have taken it to the next level with Code Project and/or Deep Stack. Frigate is also interesting to me. I'm also auditioning Digital Watchdog, but apparently you have to buy their hardware in order to get any AI functions.

 

[MikeLud1]

I'm just wondering if I can start out right now using only the integrated GPU (Intel UHD Graphics 770) for Code Project AI

You can use the integrated GPU with Code Project AI. Use the Object Detection (YOLOv5 .NET) module, this will use the integrated GPU.

 

[Ookie]

Thanks much!

 

[fenderman]

That is an insanely powerful box and should have no issues...consider a larger case with local storage as usb/nas recording is simply not as reliable.

 

[prsmith777]

I see quite a few threads here with the AI modules failing to recognize certain GPUs, necessitating a re-install. Just wondering how likely this would be, and how many issues are caused by having to do a reinstall.

Count me in as one that has had trouble with my GPU, GTX1070ti. I've uninstalled and reinstalled CPAI probably a half dozen times. Have uninstalled and reinstalled different versions of CUDA several times. Aside from being a bit time consuming, it's not a big deal. Have a different GPU on order to try soon.

Agree with advice to get a larger mother board with plenty of SATA inputs for multiple HDD.

 

[Ookie]

That is an insanely powerful box and should have no issues...consider a larger case with local storage as usb/nas recording is simply not as reliable.

Thanks much for this suggestion. I had already been re-thinking the small case as possibly being a bad idea. Only reason I thought to go with it is that a smaller case can be hidden more easily.

In my experience with burglaries (police detective) most perps are in and out with a few minutes on residential burgs. That said, I have seen mutts ransack a place and take the DVR/NVR.

Still, it's likely going to be possible to hide a smaller full-size case. And cooling is going to be way easier.

Unrelated, I finally got pricing from Digital Watchdog. Their AI solution requires you to buy their hardware. Stuff starts at just under $7K with discount. Moreover, if you open the case to install a drive, you violate the warranty. Even our enterprise clients are going to balk at that.

 

[fenderman]

Thanks much for this suggestion. I had already been re-thinking the small case as possibly being a bad idea. Only reason I thought to go with it is that a smaller case can be hidden more easily.

In my experience with burglaries (police detective) most perps are in and out with a few minutes on residential burgs. That said, I have seen mutts ransack a place and take the DVR/NVR.

Still, it's likely going to be possible to hide a smaller full-size case. And cooling is going to be way easier.

Unrelated, I finally got pricing from Digital Watchdog. Their AI solution requires you to buy their hardware. Stuff starts at just under $7K with discount. Moreover, if you open the case to install a drive, you violate the warranty. Even our enterprise clients are going to balk at that.

Even more reason to put it in a large case... It will look like a regular PC..... You can tie it down if you want to make it more difficult to remove...No one steals them.... But if you have an alarm system they're not hanging around for a long time...

 

[bradner]

Thanks for the prompt and detailed reply. Total facepalm on my end for not including details about the cameras. Mea culpa.

Will be a max of 20 cameras, more likely 12-16. It will be a mix of 8MP and 4MP LTS/Hik stuff.

I would say 4-8 of them at most will require AI. All of those 4-8 will have Hikvison's built in AI, but I haven't had the greatest success with that.

From what I see here, a lot of you guys have taken it to the next level with Code Project and/or Deep Stack. Frigate is also interesting to me. I'm also auditioning Digital Watchdog, but apparently you have to buy their hardware in order to get any AI functions.

I run an older i5-4590 CPU and just added an old GTX 950 video card. I have 32'ish cameras and run CP AI on 6 of them no problem. Your system is light years faster than mine. I have no issues with my setup handling everything I want from it. My biggest problem was physically fitting in the GPU into my tower. Had to remove the front USB connector to make it fit in. These GPU's take up a lot of space.

 

[Ookie]

Even more reason to put it in a large case... It will look like a regular PC..... You can tie it down if you want to make it more difficult to remove...No one steals them.... But if you have an alarm system they're not hanging around for a long time...

You are right about perps not stealing desktop PCs. In the past, they might have. Standard MO used to be to head to the master bedroom for the jewelry and money. Grabbing any electronics they saw along the way. But in the past 5-10 years, residential burglars have gotten hinky with regard to electronics due to the possibility they can phone home and be traced.

I'd beg to differ re: the value of alarm systems. The level of false alarms is absolutely staggering. I didn't spend a lot of time on patrol, but in my experience, it was a better than 95% false positive rate.

Burglar alarms are a massive waste of police resources. This leads police dispatchers to put unconfirmed intrusion alarms pretty low in the call queue. If there is one car available and there is a child with a scraped knee from a skateboard accident and a burglar alarm, they are sending the available cop to the knee scrape.

The only possible exception is the jurisdictions where they fine the crap out of people for repeat false alarms. It forces people to get their act together really quick. City/county buildings were the absolute worst. The government doesn't fine itself. Night after night going back to the same place. Worst part about it is that it breeds complacency among cops. The natural tendency is to let your guard down after the 20th time you've been to a place for a false alarm.

I have little value in alarm systems other than the signs. German shepherds, on the other hand...

 

[fenderman]

I'd beg to differ re: the value of alarm systems. The level of false alarms is absolutely staggering. I didn't spend a lot of time on patrol, but in my experience, it was a better than 95% false positive rate.

Burglar alarms are a massive waste of police resources. This leads police dispatchers to put unconfirmed intrusion alarms pretty low in the call queue. If there is one car available and there is a child with a scraped knee from a skateboard accident and a burglar alarm, they are sending the available cop to the knee scrape.

The only possible exception is the jurisdictions where they fine the crap out of people for repeat false alarms. It forces people to get their act together really quick. City/county buildings were the absolute worst. The government doesn't fine itself. Night after night going back to the same place. Worst part about it is that it breeds complacency among cops. The natural tendency is to let your guard down after the 20th time you've been to a place for a false alarm.

I have little value in alarm systems other than the signs. German shepherds, on the other hand...

The false alarm rate is 99.9 percent user error and dues not negate the benefit of a system. The benefit of the alarm system is not the police response. It is limiting the burglars time in the home if any. If you have a loud external and internal siren wailing they will either get in and out really quickly or leave empty handed. Monitored alarms do lower burglary rates and the total amount stolen - the proof is that insurance carriers provide a discount for it.
At the very least if your cams miss a motion alert you get an alert of an entry into your home which you can then confirm on cam. In most areas, if you personally call and say you see an intruder on camera they will be there in 2 minuets.

 

[Ookie]

Thanks again for the suggestion re: a standard ATX case vs. mini-ITX. You saved my ass on that, bigtime.

Any suggestions on who is making high quality PC cases these days? So many of them tend to be made out of Chinesium (pot metal). The mechanism by which drives are installed and removed can be pretty kludgy. Seems like Fractal Design or Corsair are the way to go.

Things are going to be moving quick as I snagged a 4090 last night. Real deal NVIDIA brand Founder's Edition to boot. The Hot Stock app is a total score. Didn't cost me a dime, either. Now, my 1080 can move to the Blue Iris build.

But I'm questioning that decision as well. My current desktop is based on Intel 6th Gen ("Skylake") from 2016. Sort of seems nuts to put a 4090 in it. Perhaps it would be wise to make this the Blue Iris box and use the new PC for games, etc. Really want to go all in on AI with BI. so not sure I want to use an old PC like that.

No question a personal call changes everything completely re: response. Otherwise, only rookies are coming quickly. After a year or two, you realize that it's not worth risking your life for yet another false alarm. I also detest the industry as most people I encountered tended to be fired from the phone company/cable company/law enforcement types.

 

[prsmith777]

I used Fractal Design Meshify case for my BI build because I wanted lots of ventilation for my 8 HDD and GPU. Meshify Series by Fractal Design

I just pulled it out of the closet yesterday to put in a 3060 replacing my older 1070ti. It is a nice case.

I had trouble with the 1070. ALPR would not recognize it no matter what I tried. I put in the 3060 and it worked fine on CP.AI 2.3.4 but not on the newer 2.4.7. You might have same trouble on the 1080??? My ALPR speeds went from 1000 ms to 40-50 ms.

 

[Ookie]

Good info, thanks for posting. Which Meshify did you go with? I'm between either Meshify 2 or Meshify 2 Compact. Seems like the compact still has more than enough space, as it's still a mid tower.

Good info on the 10XX series issues. Just realized that you posted it already above and I missed it. Guys are saving my tail left and right here, I really appreciate it. I'm wondering if I perhaps go with wittaj's suggestion. Get a 14th gen i9 and try to run everything off CPU until the product matures.

 

[wittaj]

The other question I posed earlier is what is your goal for CodeProject - do you really need it for every camera?

The camera AI has got so good that doing camera AI and then BI AI is kinda overkill and adds more complexity, time delay, and potential for issues.

And then look at all the issues we see with people where CodeProject shuts down for no reason and a bunch of other issues.

Whether to use camera AI or BI AI is obviously up to you, but of course, the AI in the camera may be more than sufficient for your needs without needing BI AI. Do you need the orange box around every object? Do you want to identify animals or logos? Or is just human or vehicle sufficient.

The camera AI is useful to many people, but BI has way more motion setting granularity than the cameras, and some people need that additional detail, especially if wanting AI for more than a car or person. For folks that want AI and alerts on animals or specifically a UPS truck then they need the additional AI.

There isn't really a best practice because every field of view is different and use case and needs are different.

To many here, BI motion without AI is more than adequate for what they do.

To many here, camera AI is more than adequate for what they do.

To many here, using the BI AI adds additional functionality that the above alone can not do.

It comes down to testing with each field of view and which one gives you the most consistent results.


While some of that third party stuff is cool like tagging was it a dog or a bear, I don't need all that fancy stuff. If my camera triggers BI to tag an alert for human or vehicle and BI can accomplish what I need by way of a text or email or push or whatever, that is sufficient for my needs. I just want to be alerted if a person or vehicle is on my property and the camera AI does a fine job with that.

I would prefer to put the money into more cameras LOL.

However, I do run BI AI on a few cameras so that it knocks out headlight shine so that the alert image includes the vehicle. The camera AI will trigger for a car, but the alert image was always just the headlights.

The true test....I have found the AI of the cameras to work even in a freakin blizzard....imagine how much the CPU would be maxing out sending all the snow pictures for analysis to CodeProject LOL. My non-AI cams in BI were triggering all night. This picture was ran through Deepstack (without the IVS or red lines on it) and it failed to recognize a person in the picture, but the camera AI did. This pic says it all and the video had the red box over it even in complete white out on the screen:

See this thread on how using just Dahua AI may be sufficient for your needs:

Who uses Dahua AI capable cameras? Reliable AI for triggering events? Pro's/con's?

 

[Ookie]

The other question I posed earlier is what is your goal for CodeProject - do you really need it for every camera?

The camera AI has got so good that doing camera AI and then BI AI is kinda overkill and adds more complexity, time delay, and potential for issues.

...


See this thread on how using just Dahua AI may be sufficient for your needs:

Who uses Dahua AI capable cameras? Reliable AI for triggering events? Pro's/con's?

Really appreciate your insight. You have given me a lot to think about. The Dahua thing is interesting. We've mostly done Hikvision (rebranded through LTS). Dahua is interesting. Can you recommend a good Dahua dealer that ships to the US? Also, if you have a suggested model for me to try, I would appreciate it. Color in low light is a must.

 

[wittaj]

Hikvision has their own version of AI (Acusense), so you can certainly do that if your preference is Hikvision.

For Dahua cameras, most of us go with @EMPIRETECANDY a trusted member here with an Amazon store and his own website.

He sells Dahua OEM International models, which are usually better than the models available from an authorized US dealer. And cheaper too!

Further, Dahua gives him models to try and sell first before they sell them. And we make suggestions to the firmware that they make and sometimes are only available to Andy's customers as Dahua doesn't rollout the improvements to their firmware site.

The 5442 series is the go to camera and this would be the one I would recommend to try - it is a great low light camera.

https://www.amazon.com/EmpireTech-IPC-T5442T-ZE-Vari-Focal-Eyeball-Starlight/dp/B08C77TNY9/ref=sr_1_4?m=A329YQ83EBQGJF&qid=1703951417&s=merchant-items&sr=1-4&th=1

 

[Ookie]

Thanks again, have long heard good things about Andy. Been meaning to place an order with him for a long time. Does the 5442 do color at night? If not, does it at least do good B&W images with no IR? Not a fan of IR and the bugs and spiders it attracts.

 

[wittaj]

Yes you can force the 5442 to do color at night. It does very well.

Do keep in mind to not be sold on the marketing of full-color, ColorVu type camera models that claim 24/7 color capabilities. Any camera can do color at night if you slow the shutter speed down enough and crank up the gain. The cameras are not magic and the problem with full-color type cameras is if you don't have enough visible light at night or refuse to run the built-in white LEDs (which attract bugs more than IR), then the camera is useless because it cannot see infrared so you cannot add it later.

See this thread for reviews of the new S3 series of the 5442 camera models:

Mini-Review - 5442-ZE-S3 AKA T54IR-ZE-S3 - Replacement to 5442-ZE

As many of us are aware, Dahua decided to keep the same model numbers of some of their most popular models like the 5442-Z12E and the 5442 series cameras, but they have been updated with a newer GUI and specs that on paper show better than the previous version as was discussed in this thread...

ipcamtalk.com

Mini-Review - 5442-Z4E-S3 AKA B54IR-Z4E S3 - Replacement to the 5442-Z4E

As many of us are aware, Dahua decided to keep the same model numbers of some of their most popular models like the 5442-Z12E and the 5442 series cameras, but they have been updated with a newer GUI and specs that on paper show better than the previous version as was discussed in this thread...

ipcamtalk.com