Aliexpress cameras

[fenderman]

There is only one rule of thumb with Hikvision. Pay more to get better night time quality. They are just using cheapo sensors in all those budget cams. I have 5MP no name cam that outperforms any Hikvision day and especially night.

The 5mp camera you have has a larger sensor...thats why it performs better at night. The 2mp husion performs better because its 2mp vs the 3mp of the hiks and they use very strong IR. The hikvisions perform exceptionally well if you have adequate lighting, which is a good idea anyway, they will not perform well in dark areas without added IR.

 

[klasipca]

The hikvisions perform exceptionally well if you have adequate lighting

Well, adequate is a broad meaning, it really needs lots of light in reality. Although even in daylight Hikvision produces grain in the image which is absent in 5MP cam I have, so I wouldn't say it performs exceptionally. My point is that those large sensor cams already available at low cost in no name cams which offer much better performance then what Hikvision is currently offering with their budget cams. I've been pro Hikvision for over 2 years, but this has come to an end, I am not buying or recommending any more of their outdoor cams until they stop this nonsense with $800 cams if you want good night time performance. I know it's not going to make any dent in their business model, but whatever, I'll just continue share my thoughts on this.

 

[fenderman]

Well, adequate is a broad meaning, it really needs lots of light in reality. Although even in daylight Hikvision produces grain in the image which is absent in 5MP cam I have, so I wouldn't say it performs exceptionally. My point is that those large sensor cams already available at low cost in no name cams which offer much better performance then what Hikvision is currently offering with their budget cams. I've been pro Hikvision for over 2 years, but this has come to an end, I am not buying or recommending any more of their outdoor cams until they stop this nonsense with $800 cams if you want good night time performance. I know it's not going to make any dent in their business model, but whatever, I'll just continue share my thoughts on this.

A led bulb putting out 1000 lumen (10-15w), makes a world of a difference for the hik cams. You dont need a ton of lighting. Even the 5mp you have is not going to be sufficient for a nightime id in the distance. I dont disagree that there are cameras with better night vision, however, they have not been proven yet. Installing many of them can result in having to replace all of them if they start failing due to overdriven leds, or poor quality components. Hikvision should make cameras with larger sensors and that will come in time, but I have seen first hand these no name cameras start failing. Everyone loves them until they start crapping out. Maybe these wont, but its too early to tell. You have already experience the issues with poor motion detection and firmware that will never be updated..once they make the sale they could care less. Hikvision darkfigher is already available for 600, its a matter of time before they drop further.

 

[klasipca]

A led bulb putting out 1000 lumen (10-15w), makes a world of a difference for the hik cams. You dont need a ton of lighting. Even the 5mp you have is not going to be sufficient for a nightime id in the distance. I dont disagree that there are cameras with better night vision, however, they have not been proven yet. Installing many of them can result in having to replace all of them if they start failing due to overdriven leds, or poor quality components. Hikvision should make cameras with larger sensors and that will come in time, but I have seen first hand these no name cameras start failing. Everyone loves them until they start crapping out. Maybe these wont, but its too early to tell. You have already experience the issues with poor motion detection and firmware that will never be updated..once they make the sale they could care less. Hikvision darkfigher is already available for 600, its a matter of time before they drop further.

I have 2x18 watt bulbs for flood light in front of garage, it does not make a world of a difference for me, you can see my comparison for that in another thread with 4MP dome. 5mp has enough clarity for identification at moderate distance vs very up close distance in Hikvision in the same scenario. I wouldn't go so far replacing every cam I have with it, but it's one of those cams that deserves to be mounted in the driveway. Yes, there is minor motion blur for fast moving objects, but I haven't seen any night time videos of crooks running while committing crime, generally they move slow, so it's not a huge issue and there is hope that they will address this via firmware update. Reliability argument we should put to rest. All these cams are made in Chinese factories, they all can fail and do. Hikvision has plenty of failures as well for using poor quality components, I had leds fail in Hikvision after a year use.

 

[fenderman]

I have 2x18 watt bulbs for flood light in front of garage, it does not make a world of a difference for me, you can see my comparison for that in another thread with 4MP dome. 5mp has enough clarity for identification at moderate distance vs very up close distance in Hikvision in the same scenario. I wouldn't go so far replacing every cam I have with it, but it's one of those cams that deserves to be mounted in the driveway. Yes, there is minor motion blur for fast moving objects, but I haven't seen any night time videos of crooks running while committing crime, generally they move slow, so it's not a huge issue and there is hope that they will address this via firmware update. Reliability argument we should put to rest. All these cams are made in Chinese factories, they all can fail and do. Hikvision has plenty of failures as well for using poor quality components, I had leds fail in Hikvision after a year use.

The hikvisions have very low failure rate. In the past, the chinese no name brands have failed in under a year. They are unreliable and unproven, time will tell. The location of assembly is irrelevant, its the engineering and components used.

 

[klasipca]

The hikvisions have very low failure rate. In the past, the chinese no name brands have failed in under a year. They are unreliable and unproven, time will tell. The location of assembly is irrelevant, its the engineering and components used.

So, you are just looking at this from a different angle. Would you recommend some unknown and unproven brand to a client? Of course not. Hikvision image is well known and they are easy to sell. I get that. However, I would think twice about recommending their budget cams (specifically turrets/domes) for any serious outdoor security. As for me it's a hobby, I don't need to sell cams, and Hikvision no longer offers any appeal when we can have a) better image quality b) more features in the same price range. Reliability is a moot point and since I don't buy these in large quantities I accept the risk that it may fail. Although, my statistics have been solid so far, after trying over 10 various brands and around 30 cams in the past. If they worked well in the beginning they lasted until I was ready to get rid of them, except, ironically, Hikvision with failed leds.

 

[Q™]

...Hikvision image is well known and they are easy to sell. I get that. However, I would think twice about recommending their budget cams (specifically turrets/domes) for any serious outdoor security...

What would you recommend?

 

[klasipca]

What would you recommend?

Well, you can see my picks in the signature. I was specifically looking for the best driveway/garage cam to replace Hikvision 4MP 2142 without spending $$$. So far I am impressed with IQ from Longse (Huisun didn't cut it), I am getting wide angle coverage with the beautiful clean image. I now wish I had a better view to look at

Bottom line if Hikvision could put this sensor in their budget cams they would win me back.

 

[Warsaws]

The hikvisions have very low failure rate. In the past, the chinese no name brands have failed in under a year. They are unreliable and unproven, time will tell. The location of assembly is irrelevant, its the engineering and components used.

How does Dahua reliability compare to Hikvision?

 

[fenderman]

How does Dahua reliability compare to Hikvision?

Pretty much the same.

 

[zero-degrees]

Part of the problem here is people NOT using the correct hardware for the correct location. Placing a single matrix HIK camera in a very dark back yard expecting it to cover a 100'x75' area like a flood light is on is just stupid. When it doesn't perform and people trash it that doesn't help anyone because the incorrect hardware was used for an application. Expecting a single 3mp single matrix IR turret to perform like a dual matrix Huisun with high power IR is just dumb - of course the HIK will fail and look worse. However expecting an HIK Turret to cover a pitch black - no light 2 car garage, great. You can't compare cameras unless you compare applications. You also can't compare the Huisun PTZ to a standard dome IR cluster camera.

Here is an HIK 3mp Turret (which has a noisy image sensor) in a pitch black - zero light garage... I'd say these are quality results in a $119 camera.


Here is an example of a 2mp HIK/LTS Dome in a business environment - no security lighting or ambient lighting here - the bright light in the top right corner is another dome catching the taps and long bar. Again I would consider this quality night vision in a $79 camera. The glass door to the right of the frame is 60' from the camera.


Another 2mp HIK/LTS covering a warming kitchen - zero ambient light


Another 2mp HIK/LTS covering a seating area - again, no additional lighting, just some large picture windows (but its the middle of the night and the parking lot lights area off.


Production area - 2mp dome




My point is - so much of this comes down to proper cameras being used in the proper application - if either is wrong then its not a fair shake. To many people share negativity here when there negativity is based on using the incorrect hardware (Using a dome camera to cover a back yard thats 100x100 for example). Others hype up hardware and try to push it on others when it is totally the WRONG hardware for the application (telling someone to use a PTZ for a side yard that is 50x10' for example) Its great that everyone here has different opinions and it allows users a well rounded set of views but lately shit has just turned negative and some people have really been talking out there ass and truly making shitty recommendations to new users looking for help - to the point where these new users will go out and purchase the incorrect hardware for there application then be pist and blame the hardware also when the real fault lies with the person who told them to buy the incorrect hardware.

Well, adequate is a broad meaning, it really needs lots of light in reality. Although even in daylight Hikvision produces grain in the image which is absent in 5MP cam I have, so I wouldn't say it performs exceptionally. My point is that those large sensor cams already available at low cost in no name cams which offer much better performance then what Hikvision is currently offering with their budget cams. I've been pro Hikvision for over 2 years, but this has come to an end, I am not buying or recommending any more of their outdoor cams until they stop this nonsense with $800 cams if you want good night time performance. I know it's not going to make any dent in their business model, but whatever, I'll just continue share my thoughts on this.

There is only one rule of thumb with Hikvision. Pay more to get better night time quality. They are just using cheapo sensors in all those budget cams. I have 5MP no name cam that outperforms any Hikvision day and especially night.

 

[alphawave7]

I think AliExpress should be last resort for a 'consumer' purchase. The pros on this board have time/patience, can self-support (firmware and testing configurations) and have a resale upside to consider, that consumers might not have. I would have preferred to get my latest cam from ANYWHERE other than Ali...alas, it was only available through Ali.

 

[klasipca]

Part of the problem here is people NOT using the correct hardware for the correct location. Placing a single matrix HIK camera in a very dark back yard expecting it to cover a 100'x75' area like a flood light is on is just stupid. When it doesn't perform and people trash it that doesn't help anyone because the incorrect hardware was used for an application. Expecting a single 3mp single matrix IR turret to perform like a dual matrix Huisun with high power IR is just dumb - of course the HIK will fail and look worse. However expecting an HIK Turret to cover a pitch black - no light 2 car garage, great. You can't compare cameras unless you compare applications. You also can't compare the Huisun PTZ to a standard dome IR cluster camera.

Here is an HIK 3mp Turret (which has a noisy image sensor) in a pitch black - zero light garage... I'd say these are quality results in a $119 camera.
View attachment 7334

Here is an example of a 2mp HIK/LTS Dome in a business environment - no security lighting or ambient lighting here - the bright light in the top right corner is another dome catching the taps and long bar. Again I would consider this quality night vision in a $79 camera. The glass door to the right of the frame is 60' from the camera.
View attachment 7335

Another 2mp HIK/LTS covering a warming kitchen - zero ambient light
View attachment 7336

Another 2mp HIK/LTS covering a seating area - again, no additional lighting, just some large picture windows (but its the middle of the night and the parking lot lights area off.
View attachment 7337

My point is - so much of this comes down to proper cameras being used in the proper application - if either is wrong then its not a fair shake. To many people share negativity here when there negativity is based on using the incorrect hardware (Using a dome camera to cover a back yard thats 100x100 for example). Others hype up hardware and try to push it on others when it is totally the WRONG hardware for the application (telling someone to use a PTZ for a side yard that is 50x10' for example) Its great that everyone here has different opinions and it allows users a well rounded set of views but lately shit has just turned negative and some people have really been talking out there ass and truly making shitty recommendations to new users looking for help - to the point where these new users will go out and purchase the incorrect hardware for there application then be pist and blame the hardware also when the real fault lies with the person who told them to buy the incorrect hardware.

>>Part of the problem here is people NOT using the correct hardware for the correct location.
Exactly, yet in these shots this is just proving what I've been saying all along, installation of noisy cams with awful night image quality in a business environment which were sold for 3x the price. If I would be a customer, I would be very pissed with paying the high price and would never hire this "professional" again or consider his recommendation.

 

[zero-degrees]

>>Part of the problem here is people NOT using the correct hardware for the correct location.
Exactly, yet in these shots this is just proving what I've been saying all along, installation of noisy cams with awful night image quality in a business environment which were sold for 3x the price. If I would be a customer, I would be very pissed with paying the high price and would never hire this "professional" again or consider his recommendation.

Did you miss the above point - those are $79 cameras...

Also there point is daytime business hour captures, not nighttime closed hour monitoring - its also for traffic flow and business saturation monitoring remotely - not looking directly at someones face, shoulder level which is why the high mounting works.

There are 4mp dual matrix IR cameras outside on entry points for night time & daytime identifying capture should someone try to enter, once inside its not about "identifying" them, that was done at the entry point outside. As stated above - for a $79 camera (139 turret) these are fair and solid images from a trusted manufacture with a 3 year warranty and there likely hood of failure is low.
There is LITTLE risk, unlike the cameras from over seas. Sure anything can happen to anything at any time, however the risk is less.

So this hardware was used for the proper use in the proper location. Sometimes the goal needs to be to find the most reliable camera with feature set and warranty for a specific application. Not everyones goal is to try a dozen different AE cameras until they find something amazing. Is that worthwhile - for some - yes. Does that benefit others here - of course. But sometimes people need a more broad feature and reliability set for a specific application and that is where HIK and Dahua can come into play. We are not talking about Pelco, Bosch, or Axis here which has the same quality night image in some lower end models and are $500-$1000 per camera. By all means if you can show me a camera $79 or less that can provide me these quality daytime images, perfect night time images, and carries a 3 year warranty which will ship replacements next day please let me know and I will gladly purchase now and post updated pictures from my business with side by side images with the ones above.

This is another issue here I didn't hit above - people can purchase cameras for specific purposes - night time images or licenses plate reading for example - thats great. But when that doesn't work for you, don't bash the brand entirely. My guess is for a 2mp camera you have no complaints about the daytime images I posted, which is why you removed them. Yet in this application that IS what I purchased the cameras for, thus my goal was accomplished. I simply provided the night time images above so people could form there own opinions - which is another thing VERY few people do here. There are only a handful of users that post pictures so that others can form there own opinion because what you or I think looks like s* might look acceptable to another user and thus fit his needs.

People have specific needs
1. primary objective - must be 110%
2. secondary objective - really would like
3. Be nice if it also....
4. Price Point - can very quickly change the above 3 answers
5. Feature set
There is NO one perfect solution UNLESS money is no object and 99% of instances must be fluid and able to compromise and adapt.


So many times people come here and say "Hey I want cameras to use for home security" then everyone says - Go buy XXX - Wait... Are you putting cameras inside, outside, whats your price point, whats your main objective?.?.?. Several people are here just to shit out the first thought that comes to mind - vs providing examples with the recomendation so that the end user can then make a determination of "will this work for me". This isn't a personal attack at you, this is simply an observation of several responses here lately. However, in the example of you saying HIK is shit, based on your feeling of night time IR capture and camera noise is fine, but don't tell someone HIK is shit when night time IR is secondary concern if a concern at all to them.

 

[klasipca]

Did you miss the above point - those are $79 cameras...

Also there point is daytime business hour captures, not nighttime closed hour monitoring - its also for traffic flow and business saturation monitoring remotely - not looking directly at someones face, shoulder level which is why the high mounting works.

There are 4mp dual matrix IR cameras outside on entry points for night time & daytime identifying capture should someone try to enter, once inside its not about "identifying" them, that was done at the entry point outside. As stated above - for a $79 camera (139 turret) these are fair and solid images from a trusted manufacture with a 3 year warranty and there likely hood of failure is low.
There is LITTLE risk, unlike the cameras from over seas. Sure anything can happen to anything at any time, however the risk is less.

So this hardware was used for the proper use in the proper location. Sometimes the goal needs to be to find the most reliable camera with feature set and warranty for a specific application. Not everyones goal is to try a dozen different AE cameras until they find something amazing. Is that worthwhile - for some - yes. Does that benefit others here - of course. But sometimes people need a more broad feature and reliability set for a specific application and that is where HIK and Dahua can come into play. We are not talking about Pelco, Bosch, or Axis here which has the same quality night image in some lower end models and are $500-$1000 per camera. By all means if you can show me a camera $79 or less that can provide me these quality daytime images, perfect night time images, and carries a 3 year warranty which will ship replacements next day please let me know and I will gladly purchase now and post updated pictures from my business with side by side images with the ones above.

This is another issue here I didn't hit above - people can purchase cameras for specific purposes - night time images or licenses plate reading for example - thats great. But when that doesn't work for you, don't bash the brand entirely. My guess is for a 2mp camera you have no complaints about the daytime images I posted, which is why you removed them. Yet in this application that IS what I purchased the cameras for, thus my goal was accomplished. I simply provided the night time images above so people could form there own opinions - which is another thing VERY few people do here. There are only a handful of users that post pictures so that others can form there own opinion because what you or I think looks like s* might look acceptable to another user and thus fit his needs.

People have specific needs
1. primary objective - must be 110%
2. secondary objective - really would like
3. Be nice if it also....
4. Price Point - can very quickly change the above 3 answers
5. Feature set
There is NO one perfect solution UNLESS money is no object and 99% of instances must be fluid and able to compromise and adapt.


So many times people come here and say "Hey I want cameras to use for home security" then everyone says - Go buy XXX - Wait... Are you putting cameras inside, outside, whats your price point, whats your main objective?.?.?. Several people are here just to shit out the first thought that comes to mind - vs providing examples with the recomendation so that the end user can then make a determination of "will this work for me". This isn't a personal attack at you, this is simply an observation of several responses here lately. However, in the example of you saying HIK is shit, based on your feeling of night time IR capture and camera noise is fine, but don't tell someone HIK is shit when night time IR is secondary concern if a concern at all to them.

Hmm, did you miss the point that $90 camera is actually producing better night time quality then anything Hikvision below $200? I don't talk about cams I don't own and I have first hand experience with Hikvision offerings and I am well aware of what they are capable of. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and you don't need to attack me every time you disagree. You like Hikvision night vision, no one stops you to selling/using them if it works for you and others, I am glad I found something better which works well, so I will stick with "unreliable" Huisun and other no name brands that offer more bang for the buck.

 

[Click4]

What is the build quality and design like?

I've been pretty impressed with the hikvision build quality, cast metal casings, use of gold on the circuit boards.

 

[Q™]

Hmm, did you miss the point that $90 camera is actually producing better night time quality then anything Hikvision below $200? I don't talk about cams I don't own and I have first hand experience with Hikvision offerings and I am well aware of what they are capable of. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and you don't need to attack me every time you disagree. You like Hikvision night vision, no one stops you to selling/using them if it works for you and others, I am glad I found something better which works well, so I will stick with "unreliable" Huisun and other no name brands that offer more bang for the buck.

Klaspica, there is no doubt in my mind that your Lonese camera is good...however...how does a professional installer sell a customer a camera with no realisric warranty/return program as compared with Nelly's or LTS return/warranty? In addition, your Longse is brand new and it's longevity is unproven. I've run 19 Hikvision cameras, some for 2+ years...all without a breakdown. Longse can't offer such a track record...yet.

 

[klasipca]

Klaspica, there is no doubt in my mind that your Lonese camera is good...however...how does a professional installer sell a customer a camera with no realisric warranty/return program as compared with Nelly's or LTS return/warranty? In addition, your Longse is brand new and it's longevity is unproven. I've run 19 Hikvision cameras, some for 2+ years...all without a breakdown. Longse can't offer such a track record...yet.

Yup warranty is everything for installers, hence their recommendation only based on that which has no value to me. Especially recommendation to stick $100 turret in front of garage (which I have done) just because it has warranty, but neglecting the fact that images will be subpar when the sun goes down. I like Hikvision, they make nice firmware, but I am not stuck on one brand for warranty, I am here to test different options and share the results. Hikvision budget cams no longer satisfy the needs when they are using sensor technology which is stuck a few years back. As far as Longse, they are not brand new, they've been around for a while, it's new here because no one tried them before.

 

[Click4]

Just a quick update.

I ordered 5 4mp cameras in the end from China security wholesale.

Was only marked as dispatched after 4 days, collected now on the 5th day so haven't received yet.

But I was curious that when DHL reported items collected, they was collected from a company called,

"NINGBO ZHONGSHUN NETWORK"

Which seems to be, NINGBO ZHONGSHUN CO-CREATION NETWORK.

Will feed back further when they arrive.

 

[Click4]

Still haven't arrived, apparently expected Tuesday but are in UK now and through customs.

Rather strangely though it's 2 consignments!

1 is from company above,

NINGBO ZHONGSHUN NETWORK
ROOM B3 7F TRADE DINGXIA NO
201-05 FUYONG SHAHE ROAD
HONGKONG, HK
HK

Other one is from,

LV ZI XIAN
32E THE SEVENTH BUILDINGWEIPEN
HUA QIANG ROAD
HONG KONG,
HK

Should I be concerned?