Another NVR vs BI question

[CV350]

I'm new here and this is my second post so please bear with me.

I have read the cliff notes (twice), reviewed the wiki info and many threads here. I feel if I did a poll on who uses a NVR or BI the majority would be BI and I understand a lot of the reasoning which all makes sense.

But my situation might be a little different - I'm not sure. Let me try to explain.

I live in Bangkok and have a property in Northern Thailand (about four hours by car) which has an avtech system and an NVR. Its outdated and I need to update it (the NVR is failing and my cameras are low spec and now also outdated). I was looking at a 5216 NVR but now after reading here I'm seeing all the pros in favor of BI.

My problem is that the property is remote and I need reliability. If the system fails its an eight hour trip to fix it. I also need a great IOS app. I dont tend to mess around with settings remotely and am happy when things are working so having functionality to adjust things remotely when everything is working isnt so important.

A big issue at the property is unreliable power supply. Not only does it randomly drop out but it also fluctuates frequently. I have a UPS to shield the system from spikes which seems to work well. But the power dropout frequently exceeds the UPS capacity so complete shut downs happen once every two weeks and as much as every second day in the rainy season. Eventually I will move to a backup generator or solar to eliminate this problem.

So some questions:

1. If I run a PC and BI and the system does a complete shut down can I rely on the fact that it will auto restart? My Avtech NVR does an auto reboot after a complete power failure.

2. Which is likely to be a more reliable and complete solution in my situation (NVR or BI and PC)?

3. Are the IOS Apps for an NVR reliable for monitoring. On EagleEyes I can see all my cameras live time in a single grid. Is that functionality possible with BI?

Other info as background - I use a PoE switch, DNS and the connection into the property is fibre optic 150mb. The internet is very reliable when the power is up. There is an alarm on the property which has its own power supply and has never gone down in an extended power outage. It also has a separate remote dialler which provides some extra comfort when I cant see whats going on.

 

[Mr_D]

Most PC BIOSs have an option to turn back on automatically after power is restored. The UPS would need the same ability.

The BI app works well and yes, you can see all cameras at once.

 

[looney2ns]

Welcome, read this: Need help picking out Equipment for remote Location- Needs to boot back up easily

 

[CV350]

Most PC BIOSs have an option to turn back on automatically after power is restored. The UPS would need the same ability.

The BI app works well and yes, you can see all cameras at once.

Thanks Mr_D. I will check my laptops BIOS. Its reasonably new so it should have it.

My idea now is to purchase the camera's first and try BI. This way I really have nothing to loose as I already have a switch. If Im not happy with that setup I can revert to an NVR later.

 

[CV350]

Welcome, read this: Need help picking out Equipment for remote Location- Needs to boot back up easily

Thanks for pointing me to that thread Looney2ns. Some great info there.

 

[Mr_D]

Laptops don't make very good BI machines.

 

[CV350]

Laptops don't make very good BI machines.

Thanks for the advice Mr_D. I'm learning as I read. Reliability is key to my project. My laptop is also on the edge of being under spec for what I want to do mid term. So what I planning at this stage is initially to use my laptop, and set it all up in my lounge room, get it working, alter, adjust, test, trial etc. Then if I'm comfortable with BI and decide not to go the NVR path I will go a step further and purchase a windows box/ mini PC. After I'm comfortable with everything I will then swap it all out at the remote site. That's my plan at this stage, but that could also change as I continue taking on info. I really appreciate your help.

 

[Mr_D]

Thanks for the advice Mr_D. I'm learning as I read. Reliability is key to my project. My laptop is also on the edge of being under spec for what I want to do mid term. So what I planning at this stage is initially to use my laptop, and set it all up in my lounge room, get it working, alter, adjust, test, trial etc. Then if I'm comfortable with BI and decide not to go the NVR path I will go a step further and purchase a windows box/ mini PC. After I'm comfortable with everything I will then swap it all out at the remote site. That's my plan at this stage, but that could also change as I continue taking on info. I really appreciate your help.

Keep in mind that the trial version of BI doesn't support direct-to-disk recording which will result in very high CPU utilization. Desktop CPUs will handle BI best.

 

[CV350]

OK. I didnt know that - thanks Mr_D. I may have to dive in then on BI and pay the $50 plus $10 to get me started. I understand I can still use BI as a remote viewer for an NVR so it wouldn't all be lost. However in reality the more I read the more I'm also leaning to BI so I'm already swayed somewhat that way. I think it would really need to fail my needs or be above my capability to swap to NVR later.

BI will be a challenge for me for sure but thats why I'm also thinking of going this path. The project hopefully will teach me a lot more about networking and in the process take me to a new knowledge level and a better system.

Having the knowledge and support here is the backup I need to give me the confidence to start. Thanks again.

 

[CV350]

Thank you dark current. Yes thats good advice. At the moment the UPS can run about an hour then its drained. I definitely need to get smarter on this especially as I start to make decisions on new hardware.

I will share progress as I go along.

 

[pal251]

I love BI but I'd go with an NVR if it was me...

Much lower chance of corruption and it not restarting
Other thing is maybe you can put sd cards in the cameras as a backup

 

[fenderman]

I love BI but I'd go with an NVR if it was me...

Much lower chance of corruption and it not restarting
Other thing is maybe you can put sd cards in the cameras as a backup

There is no difference between BI and an nvr with respect to "corruption" whatever that means and not restarting.
The PC, will restart after a power outage every single time if setup to do so in the bios. having remote access to the network via a pc running teamviewer is icing on the cake.

 

[pal251]

Doing a hard shut off your windows machine frequently and not cause corruption is kind of hard to believe for me.

I googled the definition of Data Corruption

"Data corruption refers to errors in computerdata that occur during writing, reading, storage, transmission, or processing, which introduce unintended changes to the originaldata. Computer, transmission, and storage systems use a number of measures to provide end-to-end data integrity, or lack of errors."

Also could be hard to restart in case of errors without user intervention. That's just my opinion

 

[fenderman]

Doing a hard shut off your windows machine frequently and not cause corruption is kind of hard to believe for me.

I googled the definition of Data Corruption

"Data corruption refers to errors in computerdata that occur during writing, reading, storage, transmission, or processing, which introduce unintended changes to the originaldata. Computer, transmission, and storage systems use a number of measures to provide end-to-end data integrity, or lack of errors."

Also could be hard to restart in case of errors without user intervention. That's just my opinion

Do you have experience with this exact scenario? You can kill power to your windows pc 100 times per day and restart and there wont be any data corruption. Dont believe me? setup a test machine and do just that.
Not sure how an NVR is easier to restart than a pc. When power comes back on it boots. End of story.

 

[fenderman]

I'd still set the BIOS to restart on power being restored, but ideally, a UPS would be set up to shut the system down properly, and power it back up once the mains were restored.

If the ups shuts the system down, there is no way for it to turn it back on after a restore if the power never fully goes out. The computer would not sense a loss of power and a return.

 

[Mr_D]

I fix PCs and while it can happen from a hard shut down, it is far less of an issue than it was back in the FAT32 days. NTFS does a much better job protecting itself.

 

[CV350]

Thanks for the inputs here everyone. Opposing views always provide insights and learning.

I am keen to give BI a go as the expanded functionality gives me more scope in setup.

If it doesnt work I havent lost much as I already have a laptop I can run for the test and a switch. I should only be out of pocket on the $49.99 for the BI subscription.

 

[fenderman]

Thanks for the inputs here everyone. Opposing views always provide insights and learning.

I am keen to give BI a go as the expanded functionality gives me more scope in setup.

If it doesnt work I havent lost much as I already have a laptop I can run for the test and a switch. I should only be out of pocket on the $49.99 for the BI subscription.

Its unfortunate that you have never tried an NVR, you will never understand how much better BI is.

 

[CV350]

Its unfortunate that you have never tried an NVR, you will never understand how much better BI is.

Actually it’s the other way around Fenderman. I have a 5 year old Avtech system now with NVR but I have never used BI. The NVR was running ok until recently and seeing some issues with it I started researching for a new NVR. However on this forum I see so many people praising BI and not so much open praise on NVR’s. As a result I have decided to give BI a go and I will set it up with some new cameras and my laptop in my lounge room as part of building and deciding on a complete new system. That way I get the experience first hand from both and if BI doesn’t suit me then I will go for a new NVR. In the interim, and with the help of a few small repairs, the avtech NVR still chugs along at the remote site.

Rightly or wrongly I’m understanding that maybe BI gives me a lot more setup and monitoring functionality. That’s the attraction. I guess I’ll find out soon on that.

Are you solely using NVR or a combination of NVR and BI?

 

[fenderman]

Actually it’s the other way around Fenderman. I have a 5 year old Avtech system now with NVR but I have never used BI. The NVR was running ok until recently and seeing some issues with it I started researching for a new NVR. However on this forum I see so many people praising BI and not so much open praise on NVR’s. As a result I have decided to give BI a go and I will set it up with some new cameras and my laptop in my lounge room as part of building and deciding on a complete new system. That way I get the experience first hand from both and if BI doesn’t suit me then I will go for a new NVR. In the interim, and with the help of a few small repairs, the avtech NVR still chugs along at the remote site.

Rightly or wrongly I’m understanding that maybe BI gives me a lot more setup and monitoring functionality. That’s the attraction. I guess I’ll find out soon on that.

Are you solely using NVR or a combination of NVR and BI?

I have over 20 BI system running. I stopped using NVR's long ago. NVR's are toys compared to BI. Hell you cannot even arrange the camera order on most of them without disconnecting cameras etc...reviewing video? horrible. Mobile apps? a joke. Schedules/ alerts /disabling alerts. Not even a close call.