Any guide aboput selecting the right camera type for various use cases?

[rouzbeh]

Do we have any guide on this forum on other sources that explains best practices for selecting the right camera type and features for various use cases? When to go for full color vs IR nightvision. when go 180 degree vs dual lens. When go for LED camera vs good IR nightvision. etc etc
I am renovating our new house and wondering which cameras are the right choice for front door, side walk, backyard, garden entrance, terrace, indoor, etc.
There is some sort of basic guide on Dahua's website but it's too much marketing , pretty much lists all their cameras for all use cases!

 

[DanDenver]

Dahua's pretty much lists all their cameras for all use cases!

And they all could be! It depends 100% on what it is you are trying to accomplish. You can hire a pro to make these important decisions or immerse yourself in the hundreds of helpful threads on this forum.

There are so many variables to consider, the least of which is your budget.

One camera characteristic that I think is very important is the size of the sensor in the camera. I think this characteristic trumps all others. Without a properly sized sensor, it does not matter if it is 180 degree view or 12 degree view. But I place emphasis on night time performance with movement. I spent well over a thousand dollars on just two cameras chasing MP and then learned that sensor size is more important than MP. Those 2 cameras (by far the most expensive I own, one was 750USD) are relegated to squirrel duty in the backyard and daytime only.

I don’t know of single one guide as comprehensive as you are seeking, but for sensor size, here is a thread on that concern:

Night time camera selection w/motion involved

Everyone shops for a camera with a different approach to what might be the best camera for their install. I always check MP against sensor size as a way to remove undesirable cameras from my search. Once I found a camera with a desirable MP and sensor combo, I would then dig deeper on FOV...

ipcamtalk.com

That post also has a link to a wizard that can help with FOV questions.

 

[wittaj]

In addition to the comment above about chase sensor size and make sure you get cameras on the ideal MP/sensor ratio, this thread is about as close as it gets to what you are looking for. This thread suggests the cameras most commonly suggested based on distance to IDENTIFY. These cameras are generally considered the best in terms of price, performance day and night, and reliability.

Don't be fulled by wide angle see the whole neighborhood cameras. They are useless for total strangers as you will see in the thread below.

Don't be fooled by Full Color, ColorVu type cameras. They are great cameras, but all cameras need light. If you do not have enough ambient light or refuse to use the built-in white LED then it is the wrong choice because it cannot see infrared.

We have many threads started here were someone bought a full color type camera and then is disappointed by its performance....WHY....because they bought into the marketing hype and thought it could see in complete darkness. All cameras need light - either visible or infrared.

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

At the urging of several folks here, I created a thread to show the importance of focal length and how focal length can be more important than megapixels (MP). I mentioned some of this in the post regarding The Hookup’s latest video demonstrating different cameras, including one sold from a...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[samplenhold]

Do we have any guide on this forum on other sources that explains best practices for selecting the right camera type and features for various use cases?

Short answer is 'No'.

The WIKI and the Cliff Notes are good starting places, but there is no 'guide' per se. The reason for that is many-fold. For one, new cams come out all the time and trying to keep that up to date would be more than anyone in this forum would be willing to do as a volunteer. Not to mention that who would vet it? There is not universal agreement on what is the right cam for a specific use case.

Another reason is that every use case is fairly different from the next. Distances, light, obstructions, access for mounting/wiring, locations for mounting, all are different for each use case.

The best you can do is look at the two resources I mentioned above, look at the threads listed above, and look at other threads that seem appropriate. Then ask questions after you get your basic understanding down.

Also, if you have not yet used cams, then do not jump in and buy everything at once. Get a good, varifocal cam like the 5442 turret, and experiment with it to learn how different settings and placement works. Use a test rig. You will ultimately be able to use that cam somewhere in your setup.

 

[rouzbeh]

Thank you for the info. I prefer that I do it myself for the sake of learning.
So here are some questions, I hope I can get some idea:
1- The backyard of my house situation looks like the sketch below. I want to monitor the fences in case someone jumps in to the backyard from the alley or the fences.
Is PDW5849P-A180 suitable for the job? I have indicated my plan for the location of camera with a little green dot. Also want to monitor the kids in the backyard when they play.

2- I have a side entrance from the garden, something similar to the image below. Would you suggest using Dahua 5442 with LED version? My thinking is that if intruder (or someone from the household, not thieve necessarily) comes in the LED Light will turn on to identify the person (or scare them a bit if is a thieve), so I don't need to put another light with motion detector.
Is my thinking correct? Or should I just go with IR night vision 5442 and add a separate motion detector+light?

 

[Ri22o]

Thank you for the info. I prefer that I do it myself for the sake of learning.
So here are some questions, I hope I can get some idea:
1- The backyard of my house situation looks like the sketch below. I want to monitor the fences in case someone jumps in to the backyard from the alley or the fences.
Is PDW5849P-A180 suitable for the job? I have indicated my plan for the location of camera with a little green dot. Also want to monitor the kids in the backyard when they play.
View attachment 162085
2- I have a side entrance from the garden, something similar to the image below. Would you suggest using Dahua 5442 with LED version? My thinking is that if intruder (or someone from the household, not thieve necessarily) comes in the LED Light will turn on to identify the person (or scare them a bit if is a thieve), so I don't need to put another light with motion detector.
Is my thinking correct? Or should I just go with IR night vision 5442 and add a separate motion detector+light?
View attachment 162089

I do not think the LEDs on the 5442s work that way. I believe they are either on or off, not triggered to be on.

Regardless, you want your light to be on all of the time or go IR. The sudden increase in light will cause the camera to overexpose and wash out the image.

 

[wittaj]

The 180 cam will do fine for monitoring, but it will not IDENTIFY at 20 meters out. Plus the 180 does not see infrared, so you would need enough light or use the built in white LED.

The white light LED full color cameras are either ON or OFF. They are not motion activated. The goal is to get a clean capture of someone and the light kicking on can cause problems to the exposure.

Keep in mind that motion sensor lights can be problematic for cameras.

Here is usually what happens when a motion activated light comes on - it just about completely blinds the camera right at the moment of optimal opportunity to get the picture. There are 3 deer in this picture and two of them are lost in the blinded white while the camera's exposure adjusts to the rapid change in available light:

We have seen some cheapo cameras take 5-15 seconds to adjust to the light difference - a perp is gone in that time.

There are things you can do to try to minimize that bloom and temporary exposure issue, but most here either run with the light on all night or not at all. You would have to experiment and see if it impedes a clean capture.

But the other problem you have is that is a tight corridor and you would get a lot of IR bounce off of the brick, the planter, etc. You would be better off with a 5442-ZE varifocal that you could optically zoom it in to the doorway to minimize the IR bounce.

 

[Ri22o]

You might peruse my thread. It covers a lot of aspects of my journey from replacing my previous system to where I am now with it.

Looking for advice on my install locations.

After posting my thread on where/whether to install the 4K-X I realized I may need to adjust the locations of some of my cameras and with Andy's sale coming up I wanted to get some opinions so I can buy any new hardware I may need. A little about where I live: My street is lit primarily by...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[wittaj]

If you want a white light from a camera to come on with motion, then you need to look at the active deterrence line of cameras.

If you want active deterrence, your best bet is to go with the 2MP IPC-T5241H-AS-PV that will blink the white light. This is on the ideal MP/sensor ratio and will perform comparably to any similar 2MP fixed lens camera by Dahua. I have two of them. I have some of the other active deterrence cams as well, and would opt for the 2MP in every instance except for indoor, one could go with the IPC-HDW3449HP-AS-PV that has the red/blue lights that will bounce off the walls and be much more impressive than outside.

The quality will not be as good as the 5442 series, because active deterrence cameras (strobe lights) are not designed for high quality images. They keep the cheaper, lower cost smaller sensors in them to help keep the cost down. Their primary purpose is the active deterrence concept of lights and audio.

 

[wittaj]

Short answer is 'No'.

The WIKI and the Cliff Notes are good starting places, but there is no 'guide' per se. The reason for that is many-fold. For one, new cams come out all the time and trying to keep that up to date would be more than anyone in this forum would be willing to do as a volunteer. Not to mention that who would vet it? There is not universal agreement on what is the right cam for a specific use case.

Another reason is that every use case is fairly different from the next. Distances, light, obstructions, access for mounting/wiring, locations for mounting, all are different for each use case.

The best you can do is look at the two resources I mentioned above, look at the threads listed above, and look at other threads that seem appropriate. Then ask questions after you get your basic understanding down.

Also, if you have not yet used cams, then do not jump in and buy everything at once. Get a good, varifocal cam like the 5442 turret, and experiment with it to learn how different settings and placement works. Use a test rig. You will ultimately be able to use that cam somewhere in your setup.

View attachment 162084

As @samplenhold pointed out, the wiki and Cliff Notes are good reading and provide a good basis to help understand how these cameras work and things to consider, but the camera suggestions in it are outdated. Not a single 5241 or 5442 camera is mentioned in the Cliff Notes (so going on over 3 years since it has been updated) and the 5442 series is considered the gold standard by many. By the way, the thread I linked is referenced in the Cliff Notes.

So the thread I linked that shows the importance of focal length over MP kinda takes up from that point with keeping the camera suggestions current and up-to-date. But again as he suggested, there is not one camera that is the universal agreement. You have to review the information presented and make a decision based on your needs.

 

[mat200]

Do we have any guide on this forum on other sources that explains best practices for selecting the right camera type and features for various use cases? When to go for full color vs IR nightvision. when go 180 degree vs dual lens. When go for LED camera vs good IR nightvision. etc etc
I am renovating our new house and wondering which cameras are the right choice for front door, side walk, backyard, garden entrance, terrace, indoor, etc.
There is some sort of basic guide on Dahua's website but it's too much marketing , pretty much lists all their cameras for all use cases!

Good question @rouzbeh ..

We've got some really good replies by @DanDenver @wittaj @samplenhold @Ri22o

short solution: Buy one GOOD varifocal ip PoE camera and start playing with it ..

Also, if you have not yet used cams, then do not jump in and buy everything at once. Get a good, varifocal cam like the 5442 turret, and experiment with it to learn how different settings and placement works. Use a test rig. You will ultimately be able to use that cam somewhere in your setup. - Samplenhold

Also, if you have not yet used cams, then do not jump in and buy everything at once. Get a good, varifocal cam like the 5442 turret, and experiment with it to learn how different settings and placement works. Use a test rig. You will ultimately be able to use that cam somewhere in your setup.

I've thought what would it take to make a clearer solid guide, and it gets complex very quickly. As is, even the cliff notes now has EOL ( End Of Life ) camera models which @giomania volunteered a ton of time to write up from the various threads and camera models he was researching while putting his system together. ( I am forever grateful for the work he did on the Cliff Notes ) Note, the DORI section of the cliff notes has been updated, and helps provide some good numbers for planning. There now are also various online tools to help plan things.

"There are so many variables to consider, the least of which is your budget. " - DanDenver

"The WIKI and the Cliff Notes are good starting places, but there is no 'guide' per se. The reason for that is many-fold. For one, new cams come out all the time and trying to keep that up to date would be more than anyone in this forum would be willing to do as a volunteer. Not to mention that who would vet it? There is not universal agreement on what is the right cam for a specific use case.

Another reason is that every use case is fairly different from the next " - Samplenhold

 

[samplenhold]

- The backyard of my house situation looks like the sketch below. I want to monitor the fences in case someone jumps in to the backyard from the alley or the fences.
Is PDW5849P-A180 suitable for the job? I have indicated my plan for the location of camera with a little green dot. Also want to monitor the kids in the backyard when they play.

That is a lot of area for a single cam to cover. One of the issues we see from new folks is they try and do too much with one cam. Any cam that you put in that position to monitor the entire area/all fences would be considered an overview camera. There is nothing wrong with having an overview cam, I have a few myself. But realize that the single overview cam will not give you a good enough capture to ID a perp, especially at night. The cam will have too wide a FOV.

Now you could put two or more cams covering the area to solve the issue. Again, get that 5442 varifocal and put it on a test rig to see what we mean. Open the FOV to 2.8mm which is what you would need to see the entire area. This will demonstrate the lack of ID quality video at the fences. Walk towards the cam and see just how close you need to be to ID a face.

 

[DanDenver]

I think that the cameras with a white light (led) turning on when someone is detected just tells that person where the camera is.
And for family members, not sure what message is being sent to them.

 

[cctv-dave]

A school of thought is that you want to deter people firstly.
Given your digram of garden and assuming there is nothing in there of particular value? then something like the Dahua tioc is a possible choice since it works with IR at night, can switch into colour with motion and then with IVS can do the red/blue flashy lights plus siren.
Most people are opportunists, they are unlikely to progress to your house if there is a flashing light and siren going off whilst illuminating them with white light.

Then as mentioned above to protect your house you have something to ID people better. But remembering that the hoody wearing yobs of the UK wear them for a reason.

 

[DanDenver]

I agree, but I would take it a step further and apply profiles in BI. This way your family can enjoy time on the property without constantly setting off the siren, alarms and alerts.
Frequent false alarms/alerts/etc reduce the sense of urgency to take action.

 

[cctv-dave]

Yeah that's a given.
It's where some of the learning comes in.
Especially since that camera has arm/disarm functionality - depending on the choice of NVR vis-à-vis ability to use that.

 

[rouzbeh]

That is a lot of area for a single cam to cover. One of the issues we see from new folks is they try and do too much with one cam. Any cam that you put in that position to monitor the entire area/all fences would be considered an overview camera. There is nothing wrong with having an overview cam, I have a few myself. But realize that the single overview cam will not give you a good enough capture to ID a perp, especially at night. The cam will have too wide a FOV.

Now you could put two or more cams covering the area to solve the issue. Again, get that 5442 varifocal and put it on a test rig to see what we mean. Open the FOV to 2.8mm which is what you would need to see the entire area. This will demonstrate the lack of ID quality video at the fences. Walk towards the cam and see just how close you need to be to ID a face.

How do you recommend placing the cameras in my Scenario 1 , where I want to monitor the backyard? And which type , night vision vs Full color? Would you put two / three separate cameras instead of one 180degree camera?
Great discussion for scenario 2! I guess I will go with a IR night vision camera such as 5442.

 

[samplenhold]

Great discussion for scenario 2!

My reply was about the back yard coverage, #1.

From a drawn plat there really is no way to give you a definitive answer. The only way to make those decisions is to test them with a varifocal cam and a test rig. It is also your responsibility to define what you want from the cam coverage. Make a cam plan. Be willing to modify it as you gain experience. I started with one varifocal cam and set it up all over my property in an effort to define where to put cams. I started at the driveway. After testing I bought the two cams for that position and installed them. After a few days of observation, I changed the focal length and the positioning until I got the shots I was aiming for.

Then I went to the front door and did the same thing. Then the back yard. That is the way to ensure you get the best coverage.

 

[rouzbeh]

My reply was about the back yard coverage, #1.

From a drawn plat there really is no way to give you a definitive answer. The only way to make those decisions is to test them with a varifocal cam and a test rig. It is also your responsibility to define what you want from the cam coverage. Make a cam plan. Be willing to modify it as you gain experience. I started with one varifocal cam and set it up all over my property in an effort to define where to put cams. I started at the driveway. After testing I bought the two cams for that position and installed them. After a few days of observation, I changed the focal length and the positioning until I got the shots I was aiming for.

Then I went to the front door and did the same thing. Then the back yard. That is the way to ensure you get the best coverage.

In scenario 1 my goal is to mostly monitor the backyard, an get an overview, not identifying people from very far away . I have some experience with cameras ,I am using 2x 5442 for the front door. works great. I am not pro though, obviously
Where I am not sure is about that 270 degree corner.

 

[mat200]

In scenario 1 my goal is to mostly monitor the backyard, an get an overview, not identifying people from very far away . I have some experience with cameras ,I am using 2x 5442 for the front door. works great. I am not pro though, obviously
Where I am not sure is about that 270 degree corner.

Where I am not sure is about that 270 degree corner.

Multiple cameras ... will need multiple cat5e/6 drops .. will want to try various placements to get the results you want ..

may want to look at some of the newer dual lens models