I know too many people that a firearm is really an inappropriate defensive weapon for. They are lovely people, they just don't have it in them to shoot a person, even if that person is breaking into their house and a threat to them.
Attempted invasion of my neighbor's house
- Thread starter RJF
- Start date
I know too many people that a firearm is really an inappropriate defensive weapon for. They are lovely people, they just don't have it in them to shoot a person, even if that person is breaking into their house and a threat to them.
fenderman
Staff member
- Mar 9, 2014
- 36,892
- 21,408
Well you can put that on their tombstone...
NoloC
Getting comfortable
- Nov 24, 2014
- 682
- 458
Bull Shit.
Old saying: I don't know much about guns, but I'd rather have one and not need it, than need one and not have it.
CCTVCam
Known around here
- Sep 25, 2017
- 2,830
- 3,708
looney2ns
IPCT Contributor
It's funny how quickly they can change that attitude when someone they know or love has been the victim of a violent crime.
Short version of a long true story:
McKinney TX, nice 3 year old subdivision, McKinney is booming economically.
My daughter lived in said new subdivision.
She makes friends easily, and so knows most of the folks within 15-20 house's of hers. They all hang out together on the weekends.
My daughter has had her carry permit for several years, and has tried to convey that sense to her friends. I beat into her head from an early age how not to be a victim.
One of her friends were vehemently anti-gun, which is fine, to each his own. Lived in a nice two story home with their 3 young kids, 12 house's away from my daughter. Home builder included alarm systems in each new home, but these folks had their head in the sand and never activated or armed theirs. It could never happen to them ya know.
Last july, 2am, wife wakes to a loud noise. Gets up and goes downstairs to see what's up, 4 masked guys meet her at the bottom of the stairs. She screams for her husband, they pistol whip her a couple of times. One of them take her to the kitchen to tie her up. Gets beat some more. Husband stumbles down the stairs, 3 guys greet him, he trys to fight back, they pistol whip him, until he's un-conscious, while wife watches.
Now they ransack the house, young kids are corralled in one bedroom and locked in. Wife is thinking husband is dead.
After an hour of ransacking the house, one of them takes the wife to the ATM in her car, and withdraws money. They do this at 5 ATMs.
While away, husband kind of comes to, try's again to fight, he get's beat again.
Wife and thug return home, they contemplate raping the wife in front of the husband, but don't.
3hrs and 20 min's later, they finally leave.
Husbands spends 3 weeks in the hospital with multiple broken bones in his face, arms and chest. Concussion Plus internal damage.
Wife spends a week in hospital. Multiple broken bones in her face and arms.
Wife and kids so traumatized that they can't go back down their street, let alone go in the house.
After staying with friends and seeing therapist's for 5 months, they end up selling the house, because the wife and kids can't go back into it.
58chev
Pulling my weight
Same here in Canada, the perp has more rights that the home owner.
I say knock em out hard and drag their a$$ down the street and leave them there. Just hope that when they come to, they have no clue how they got there.
mat200
IPCT Contributor
- Jan 17, 2017
- 15,379
- 25,926
and this is why a good reliable semi-auto intermediate powered short carbine w/detachable magazine is good to have at home.
AND they keep pushing the USA to disarm... last time the UK tried that in what is now the USA ( Lexington ) the citizens decided NO go.
Seriously screwed up place imho, the UK - even attempting to ban knives
tangent
IPCT Contributor
- May 12, 2016
- 4,620
- 3,973
I'm usually usually not too far from a weapon, it just isn't always a gun.
Hindsight being what it is, the biggest mistakes there don't even involve firearms. She should have woken her husband up and they should have called 911 and set off the panic siren on their inactive alarm system (alarm keypad may have also revealed activity in the house). At that point it would been a debate between investigate (preferably armed) and protect the kids.
On a different part of the spectrum there are people who have and use alarm systems but have glaring holes in their security that they simply ignore (my alarm system will protect me) like not locking the detached garage or not installing a deadbolt. I have an aunt like this who's been burglarized quite a few times over the years, but thankfully not recently. Her alarm code is also pretty poor. She also thinks breaking a window will set off her alarm, it won't. She's in the middle of nowhere too.
RobertM
Getting the hang of it
- May 2, 2017
- 192
- 91
It's horrible when someone 'gets the drop on you' because you're not mentally or physically ramped up for confrontation. That advantage lays with the aggressor who has prepared himself to be quick, decisive, and violent. Meanwhile the intended victim is in pajamas, slippers, lethargic from sitting on the sofa watching tv for 3 hours straight... etc.
CCTVCam
Known around here
- Sep 25, 2017
- 2,830
- 3,708
It's amazing how different countries have different views. A large majority of the UK population think the US is a seriously screwed place and can't understand why anyone would want guns. However, this is backed up by both constant media and government propaganda and reports on mass shootings in the US. Such as this:
British people think they know America – but the gun control debate shows how little we do | Suzanne Moore
The macabre choreography of US mass shootings
1,516 mass shootings in 1,735 days: America's gun crisis – in one chart
Personally, I think the truth lies somewhere in between. I believe (and you may not agree) that the US needs compulsory gun security requirements like the UK where guns have to locked in safes with only the licensee having access to the key (stops kids getting guns and taking them to schools, and stops them getting stolen by criminals), and also that every person should have to be vetted as they are in the UK. Say what you like about it, but with nearly 900,000 legal gun owners in the UK, shootings are rare, in fact only 3 mass shootings in over 30 years and virtually no minor shootings at all involving legally held weapons. Shows the value of safes and vetting.
As for knives, we have a knife and gang problem, mostly in London. However, unlike in the US, after riots in the past over stop and searching of minorities, the police are very tied by regulations as to when they can stop and search (anyone of any race), and so given it's so very hard to detect knives, the government seems to have banned knives instead to try to stop the carrying. Somehow, I doubt it makes little difference amongst gang members even though there's a possible 4 year sentence. That's my opinion / understanding of the problem.
looney2ns
IPCT Contributor
You should have a plan, and that plan should be practiced on a regular basis, by the entire family, then you are less likely to be stumbling around not knowing what to do.
I have an equalizer in my pocket, everyday, all day. And one besides the bed at night. Wife knows what to do, and what not to do in case of an event.
Or you could put this
Orting homeowner shot dead with own gun during burglary
HCSO: Minister shot & killed with his own gun during home invasion
Yes but my point was that if you have one and need it, and you don't use it, then it is no good you having it in the first place, and you have only increased the risk to yourself. For a firearm to be an effective weapon in those circumstances you must be willing to kill. If you haven't read Dave Grossman's "on killing", it's worth a read. He quotes from Marshall who found that during WW2, despite being in combat, 75% of soldiers never fired directly at the enemy because of the inbuilt human resistance to killing people, especially at close range, and he goes on to talk about what the modern military and police forces do to get around that resistance.
I think that even in the US you would have some issues if you used an illegal shotgun to shoot a 16 year old kid in the back as he was running away.
That's a horrible story but my point remains that if you have a gun you must be prepared to use it to kill, and if you aren't prepared to use it to kill, then choose something else.
fenderman
Staff member
- Mar 9, 2014
- 36,892
- 21,408
That is the exception to the rule...and they had a high probability of dying anyway...how many home invasions were stopped because of guns? thought so...you can cower like a schmuck in Australia....not here...here you get the chance to defend yourself....accidents happen, we still drive and use swimming pools...we dont have to watch our wives and daughters beat and raped at gunpoint ....
fenderman
Staff member
- Mar 9, 2014
- 36,892
- 21,408
I dont own one either...but ill be damned if someone told me I could not purchase one if I felt the need...its very easy for folks living in whitelandia to claim they have no need for one...that is great...i would never impose my needs on others...I dont need an SUV or truck, but I am not going to make that determination for another..
bigredfish
Known around here
Me to Bad Guy coming through door to my home: Wait while I unlock my safe..............NOT
What doesnt get reported, because it doesnt fit the "narrative" is that of the approx 32,000 gun deaths in the US p/yr:
- 22,000 are suicides (betcha they dont mention that)
- Another 500-600 or so are negligent accidents
- Another 300+ are justified Shootings by citizens in self defense
- Another 500+ are justified shooting by Law Enforecement
- 60%-70% of the remaining 9,000 gun homicides are concentrated in approx 7-8 metropolitan areas. (Betcha they dont mention that)
- Total US homicides ALL types - approx 17,000
Think on that..over 320 million citizens, 300,000,000 of which DONT live in those 7-8 metro areas, leaves about 3000 gun deaths for the balance of the US.
London Knife attacks 2017
Knife crime increase in UK for much the same reasons as gun crime in the US
Bad Guys will always find a way...
fenderman
Staff member
- Mar 9, 2014
- 36,892
- 21,408
its not about the actual color, its about the neighborhood....many folks dont have a choice of where to live...many homicides and rapes in affluent neighborhoods...automatic weapons cause a statistically insignificant number of deaths....its just something the anti gun lobby harps on..
mat200
IPCT Contributor
- Jan 17, 2017
- 15,379
- 25,926
Ahhh.. the UK who Americans sent their own personal firearms to in the dark times to protect themselves from the possible Nazi invasion from France... how easily BBC seems to forget that...
Remember there was a time when the masses in the kingdom were encouraged to practice archery so that the peasants could slaughter the French aristocrats ( Battle of Agincourt as an example ), but now even knives need to be banned. ( save a life! surrender.. your knife! Surrender your knife | Save a life - man I just can't make this stuff up!... )
Last edited:
bigredfish
Known around here
You are missing my point Fenderman. What I am saying is you can have a gun, and still cower like a schmuck, and if you are one of those people, then a firearm is not for you. I don't know what you are reading about Australia, but out wives and daughters don't get beaten and raped at gunpoint down here, and we can and do defend ourselves, including with firearms from time to time, not that we really need to, crime is low here.
mmm steak.