BI vs NVR

[alastairstevenson]

Here is another live sample, now that darkness has come.

There are no PTZs on that switch, all turrets.

Note: Max power used by PSE: Class 0: 15.4W, Class 1: 4.0W, Class 2: 7.0W, Class 3: 15.4W

Port​	State​	Priority​	Power Limit​	Power(W)​	Voltage(V)​	Current(mA)​	Classification​	Status​
01​	Enabled​	Normal​	Auto​	4.7​	48.1​	98.0​	Class 0​	POWER ON​
02​	Enabled​	Normal​	Auto​	3.4​	48.1​	71.0​	Class 3​	POWER ON​
03​	Enabled​	Normal​	Auto​	6.2​	48.1​	130.0​	Class 3​	POWER ON​
04​	Enabled​	Normal​	Auto​	3.0​	48.0​	63.0​	Class 3​	POWER ON​
05​	Enabled​	Normal​	Auto​	3.4​	47.8​	75.0​	Class 2​	POWER ON​
06​	Enabled​	Normal​	Auto​	5.1​	48.0​	107.0​	Class 3​	POWER ON​
07​	Enabled​	Normal​	Auto​	5.7​	48.1​	119.0​	Class 3​	POWER ON​
08​	Enabled​	Normal​	Auto​	0.0​	0.0​	0.0​	N/A​	POWER OFF​

 

[newfoundlandplucky]

Thought I'd provide data to help with your decision. I was in an almost identical situation as recently as a month ago.

BTW, my PoE is a USD$50 MokerLink 8 Port PoE Switch with 2 Gigabit Uplink Ports, PoE Plus 802.3af/at, 120W Built-in Power, Extend to 250Meter, Metal Plug & Play. AKA Junk. I don't have the time to open it up to evaluate isolation and components. IMHO not worth the time.

Also have a Dahua DHI-NVR5208-8P-4KS2E sitting in the corner. It may get used but thus far BlueIRIS is winning because the Dahua walled garden is too restrictive and BlueIRIS capabilities can be expanded as I please. Incremental expansion suits me better as I discover needs and wants.

Default settings except FPS which have been reduced to 15. Continuous record. Motion edge detection enabled with masking and scene reset. Motion detection in my outside carriage lamps do not induce false BlueIRIS triggers. Pleasantly surprised by this.

The solution is driven by how well false positives can be managed. To that end I have not enabled any sort of AI. All of the equipment is capable. Just need to discover if it's required.

The storage is composed of a stripped 3 disk array. CPU usage sits below 20% so I have lots of room to experiment. The NVR just can't provide the same flexibility. My inexperienced conclusion is that if you know your requirements fairly well an NVR can be a decent choice. As of now I don't see the value given my level of experience and that I don't know what I don't know.

 

[tech_junkie]

Thought I'd provide data to help with your decision. I was in an almost identical situation as recently as a month ago.

BTW, my PoE is a USD$50 MokerLink 8 Port PoE Switch with 2 Gigabit Uplink Ports, PoE Plus 802.3af/at, 120W Built-in Power, Extend to 250Meter, Metal Plug & Play. AKA Junk. I don't have the time to open it up to evaluate isolation and components. IMHO not worth the time.

The mokerlink poe works best in "Default" mode for cameras as the POE ports will only be 10MB if its in extend mode. In default mode, the POE ports are 10/100M and I find their lack of documentation on this to be deplorable.

 

[tech_junkie]

Just in case this determines anyone's buying choices ...


Sorry, but I disagree.
Based on actual experience, and also device specs.
Even Pro series models (ie more RAM and faster processors) with active strong IR or white LEDs use no more than 5 or 6w worst case.
I believe your figures are out by a factor of about 2.

I forgot to tell everyone that I include de-rating as I don't put together a system on the edge of its engineering. Besides that, I've seen some cameras intermittently spike 50% more than they continuously pull. That is why I automatically de-rate that much over their continuous draw.

 

[Nerkalis]

Dan Denver nailed it. If you have need to monitor than nvr is fine. If you need to witness, design a solution that will allow redundancy, longevity for future use, non-vendor specific flexible equipment requirements, and most important, obtainable withing budget for total cost of ownership.

In my experience this means 100% BI.

 

[fred583]

I have an older Dahua DVR and a more recent Dahua NVR. When traveling I VPN into my home network and access them with SmartPSS. Unfortunately, I can only offer more questions instead of reliable advice, but my main concerns with the NVR/BI decision were as follows:

1. The recording device needed to be sealed (screw gun) into a hidden part of the house that is a pain to access. I like to use a hidden approach to cameras and recorders. The non-BI route seemed to be more set it and forget it. The Windows based home desktop that I am using now is like a second job to apply fixes, run virus software, and prevent Microsoft updates from turning it into cloud-based social media terminal. I don’t see how it could survive the neglect and still be safe if it were sealed away.

2. One pro-BI aspect is that I worry about with the NVR approach is security. I have a Unifi UDM-US router that functions as an L2TP VPN server and allows me to isolate the Dahua machines on a seperate VLAN and restrict them from initiating a communication on my network. Even with all this, I worry about remote access using my Windows laptop which is also used for financial purposes. I feel stupid every time I start SmartPSS and click “Yes” to “Do you want to allow this app from an unknown publisher to make changes to this device?”

 

[fenderman]

I have an older Dahua DVR and a more recent Dahua NVR. When traveling I VPN into my home network and access them with SmartPSS. Unfortunately, I can only offer more questions instead of reliable advice, but my main concerns with the NVR/BI decision were as follows:

1. The recording device needed to be sealed (screw gun) into a hidden part of the house that is a pain to access. I like to use a hidden approach to cameras and recorders. The non-BI route seemed to be more set it and forget it. The Windows based home desktop that I am using now is like a second job to apply fixes, run virus software, and prevent Microsoft updates from turning it into cloud-based social media terminal. I don’t see how it could survive the neglect and still be safe if it were sealed away.

2. One pro-BI aspect is that I worry about with the NVR approach is security. I have a Unifi UDM-US router that functions as an L2TP VPN server and allows me to isolate the Dahua machines on a seperate VLAN and restrict them from initiating a communication on my network. Even with all this, I worry about remote access using my Windows laptop which is also used for financial purposes. I feel stupid every time I start SmartPSS and click “Yes” to “Do you want to allow this app from an unknown publisher to make changes to this device?”

1. Nonsense. You can disable all updates if you wish. You dont need to run antivirus software as you are not surfing the web or downloading unknown files onto the system - however windows has a great lightweight AV build in for free and all you need to do is exclude BI and storage folders. I manage over 20 BI systems and do so with all but two remotely - dont understand why you think it cannot be done in a closet. I dont touch these systems sometimes for a year or more. They just work. No one steals desktop pc's but if you are paranoid about it getting stolen, even more reason to go with BI, you can simultaniously record not only to the PC but to a NAS which is even smaller and easier to hide.

 

[wittaj]

+1 above!

You can make BI set it and forget it. Treat your BI machine as a stand alone NVR (which it is for cheaper than an NVR) and it is more secure than an NVR and equal maintenance or less and more robust.

 

[samplenhold]

The Windows based home desktop that I am using now is like a second job to apply fixes, run virus software, and prevent Microsoft updates from turning it into cloud-based social media terminal.

I rarely sit at my BI PC. I can always RDP if I need to, but hardly ever login or do any maintenance. I don't understand the reference to 'cloud-based social media terminal'.

 

[fred583]

Thank you all for this insight. I will look into BI as an option. Any thoughts on my fears about SmartPSS? Would you run in on a security sensitive laptop? Why is the publisher unknown?

 

[looney2ns]

Thank you all for this insight. I will look into BI as an option. Any thoughts on my fears about SmartPSS? Would you run in on a security sensitive laptop? Why is the publisher unknown?

What fears about SmartPSS?

 

[fred583]

Thanks everyone. I apologize that my style of learning involves putting forth admittedly ignorant and unresearched positions to receive valuable corrections. The take away messages I now have and that I am very grateful for are:

1. BI can function very well in a sealed location. The permissions granted to allow remote login pose no security risk. Turning off Windows updates poses no risk. The amount of required interaction is minimal.

2. When using the security tips from this forum Dahua DVR/NVR systems including SmartPSS are safe. There should be no concern running SmarPSS on a laptop with financial applications. The Windows warning of “Unknown Publisher” can be ignored.

 

[wittaj]

Nothing wrong with learning!

Also keep in mind how the "unknown Publisher" or "potential virus" messages are generated (just called virus moving forward in the rest of this post for simplicity).

It is not a virus, rather it is whatever antivirus you are using has flagged it as a potential virus. Some programs look at the total number of users and below a certain number, it is flagged. These specialty type files/programs get false positives all the time.

You can check the file with VirusTotal , an antivirus website owned by Google that runs it thru a lot of different antivirus algorithms.

So in this case SmartPSS isn't used enough for Windows to accept/acknowledge the publisher.

 

[wittaj]

I have an older Dahua DVR and a more recent Dahua NVR. When traveling I VPN into my home network and access them with SmartPSS. Unfortunately, I can only offer more questions instead of reliable advice, but my main concerns with the NVR/BI decision were as follows:

1. The recording device needed to be sealed (screw gun) into a hidden part of the house that is a pain to access. I like to use a hidden approach to cameras and recorders. The non-BI route seemed to be more set it and forget it. The Windows based home desktop that I am using now is like a second job to apply fixes, run virus software, and prevent Microsoft updates from turning it into cloud-based social media terminal. I don’t see how it could survive the neglect and still be safe if it were sealed away.

Here is a thread started just today of someone that set BI up over 2 years ago and has been set it and forget it ever since...just another data point of what we were saying that you can set it and forget it if you so choose.

Backhauling Camera Traffic via VPN - one BI instance or two

Hi All, About ~ 2x years ago I setup a BI instance w/ 5 camera and things have been on cruse control ever sense. Can't really give BI a greater compliment than not thinking about it for 2x years. Fast forward to 2022, we bought a cabin and now I can to light it up with some cameras! My core...

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