I know this is the unpopular opinion here, but I would recommend you just get the cheap cameras. They work very well. Obviously they don’t work as well as the starlights at night, but they can still see stuff. I have 7 cheap Chinese cameras (6 4431c-a and 1 4431r-z) and they work flawlessly. Make sure to use @cor35vet firmware. They IVS works perfectly with multiple rules, never had any lagging or rebooting of the cameras. I should be getting a 4433c-a camera in a week or two. Fingers crossed that it doesn’t have a focus issue (I’ll try to remember to update you guys). But honestly, the cheap camera’s work. They aren’t as bad as some forum members make it sound. Sure, the starlights are much better, but for me, they aren’t worth the 3x the price.
Cheap system options
- Thread starter Pernod
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fenderman
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- Mar 9, 2014
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Starlights are not 3 times the price...they can be had for 100....pennywise pound foolish..they are worth every penny of the 2x price...
- Feb 22, 2018
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I've just dug out an old Foscam clone Tenvis indoor turret and successfully connected it to Blue Iris. So that give's me a good test base for scripting etc as a very first step while I dither on camera options 
I can see pretty clearly from testing that the IR based cameras with small sensors may well go from 'unclear image' to 'washed out' with no useful information in the middle... so that's handy to see fist hand.
I quite like the BlueIris option, although I'll need to play with some of my other machines int he house as the test rig I use doesn't have 'auto-resume on power failure' nor 'WoL' so it's not exactly robust in a power fail situation.
I can see pretty clearly from testing that the IR based cameras with small sensors may well go from 'unclear image' to 'washed out' with no useful information in the middle... so that's handy to see fist hand.
I quite like the BlueIris option, although I'll need to play with some of my other machines int he house as the test rig I use doesn't have 'auto-resume on power failure' nor 'WoL' so it's not exactly robust in a power fail situation.
Really? Where? Lowest I found was 120ish (so roughly 2 1/2 times the chinese versions)
fenderman
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- Mar 9, 2014
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100.. search..I don't care what do...buy the cheap ones...your next post will be my night images suck or my camera has issues....I've just dug out an old Foscam clone Tenvis indoor turret and successfully connected it to Blue Iris. So that give's me a good test base for scripting etc as a very first step while I dither on camera options
I can see pretty clearly from testing that the IR based cameras with small sensors may well go from 'unclear image' to 'washed out' with no useful information in the middle... so that's handy to see fist hand.
I quite like the BlueIris option, although I'll need to play with some of my other machines int he house as the test rig I use doesn't have 'auto-resume on power failure' nor 'WoL' so it's not exactly robust in a power fail situation.
Really? Where? Lowest I found was 120ish (so roughly 2 1/2 times the chinese versions)
Like I said pennywise pound foolish...
- Feb 22, 2018
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Sorry if I've offended anyone by asking about cheaper options - I really thought it was a genuinely fair question as it isn't covered very well elsewhere and I really do have a limited budget.
It's becoming clear this forum probably isn't the right one for me as it's focused on higher end options; with even the Chinese Dahua clones seeming to be an ongoing contentious topic?. I'll research elsewhere when it comes to trade offs due to budget constraints as it's clear this is not an appreciated topic here.
Thanks for the replies you have given though guys, very useful as a start.
fenderman
Staff member
- Mar 9, 2014
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Great, don't let the door hit you on the way out...your passive aggressive non-sense is not welcome....
If you searched the forms it is covered pretty well here, I personally have IR and focus issues with mine,(as others did) some knew going into it what they might be getting and when you buy on ALi its really a crap shoot on the quality of the camera you will get. It is pretty cut and dried, people were trying to nudge you in the right direction according to their experiences. Not sure what more you were looking for here because its been covered time and time again.
- Feb 22, 2018
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Yep, the feedback has been brilliant. It's absolutely changed my view on the rigth approach so I have been taking the advice given on board.
FWIW, I've decided to start with 1 or 2 cameras of better quality. Sure it won't give the coverage, but it will give a stronger upgrade path over time. Even if it takes a couple of years to get there it'll be a better result. I'm pretty sure that's the right direction out of everyone's feedback This is a far cry from the out-of-box solutions I was looking at originally...
Now whether I go for 1x starlight or 2x 4431's initially, well that's the question I am yet to answer but I'll do that in my own time based on the other info available, as you are right, those pro's/con's don't need dragged up in yet another thread (especially given the comments in this thread seeming to have lost patience and getting grumpy at me being a n00b with a budget limitation).
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Q™
IPCT Contributor
No one truly wants “cheap” cameras. Rather, what most need is the least expensive hardware which best meet the use case, and the budget. Semantics? Yes. A rubric which yields the most cost-effective results? Most definitely. Otherwise most all end up pouring good money over bad...just like I did when I started.
You are indeed exaggerating with the 3x price difference. Comparing zoom bullets-to-zoom bullets, the 4431r-z is going right now for the high $70s to $80, and the starlight 5231e-z is $203 from Andy. So the price difference is more like 2-1/2x. I've had the same operational experience as you, with all of the 4431r-z features working just as well as the 5231e-z features, and both with 100% reliability. The only differences I have run across are the better quality night image with the 5231e-z, and those ugly in-you-face LEDs on the 4431r-z. That problem is easily fixed with LightDims, black in color and let almost all of the IR pass right through.
fenderman
Staff member
- Mar 9, 2014
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Starlight varifocal is 170 and can be had for 150 with slow shipping that you are getting with the cheap cams... fixed is 100...less than 2x...
- Feb 22, 2018
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One option I have in the 'to consider' pile is a 4431C-A for $49USD.
Is it genuine, not sure, but it is 1/4 of the price of the 5231e-z you mention. On a $300 budget that's a huge difference.
Edit: just realised the 5231e-z is a bullet. Still it's under 1/3rd the price of the best Varifocal Starlight turret I could find.
Is it genuine, not sure, but it is 1/4 of the price of the 5231e-z you mention. On a $300 budget that's a huge difference.
Edit: just realised the 5231e-z is a bullet. Still it's under 1/3rd the price of the best Varifocal Starlight turret I could find.
- Feb 22, 2018
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Finally found a 4231EM-AS for 96USD. But before I add it to my consideration set, can someone confirm the older version (which it looks to be) has PoE? It says it does, but only has 2 reviews so my trust is low.
EDIT: Don't worry, found the Dahua spec sheet which confirms that model does have PoE (just not ePoE of the newer version). Still not sure I trust the seller though... 2 blank reviews and 3 sales.
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Frankenscript
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- Dec 21, 2017
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Have you considered getting some fake cameras and mounting them as visual deterrents, until your budget allows more good cams? I don't know if the deterrents premise holds water, but if it matters for you maybe fakes would work.
I get your options are more limited in NZ than here in the states, and totally get the budget limit.
As a newbie myself, who has benefitted greatly from this board, I have a few learnings from my two months of experience (which followed a month of research):
I bought a nice Hikvision NVR (8 port) which works fabulously but I anticipate a rapid switch to a Blue Iris PC. Cameras are addictive and I while I only have 5 right now, I could quickly exceed that number, given I'm eying a pair of LPR cameras
Don't look at your budget as a lump sum. This will become a hobby, or perhaps a lifestyle. Plan for upgrades over time. You're a tinkerer... Plan to tinker! Like me...
Don't forget to plan $ for cable, electrical boxes, mounts, and the like.
I have mostly Hikvision cams and one el cheapo $40 cam. The cheapo works great and even gives a decent (not great) night picture. I bought it on a lark to be a garage camera but repurposed it "temporarily" to cover my front walk due to higher priority. The point is, sometimes cheap stuff works, sometimes it causes headaches.
From reading this thread my recommendation is do one of two things:
Either buy some fakes as deterrents and don't actually spend any real money, or put Blue Iris on a PC and buy one good camera for your most important spot and learn by doing. Budget for a POE switch, by the way. Once you get in and play with stuff you will be in a much better position to plan expansion based on experience.
My bet is you will get sucked in and gradually add cameras and so on, and by going one step at a time you won't be wasting money.
Best of luck to you and I hope to hear how it goes!
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk
Oh, and don't forget the costs of storage (suitable HDD like a WD purple), possibly a new router with good VPN oomph (I'm currently researching this one), and so on. Once you go through the looking Glass, the slope gets slippery.
I get your options are more limited in NZ than here in the states, and totally get the budget limit.
As a newbie myself, who has benefitted greatly from this board, I have a few learnings from my two months of experience (which followed a month of research):
I bought a nice Hikvision NVR (8 port) which works fabulously but I anticipate a rapid switch to a Blue Iris PC. Cameras are addictive and I while I only have 5 right now, I could quickly exceed that number, given I'm eying a pair of LPR cameras
Don't look at your budget as a lump sum. This will become a hobby, or perhaps a lifestyle. Plan for upgrades over time. You're a tinkerer... Plan to tinker! Like me...
Don't forget to plan $ for cable, electrical boxes, mounts, and the like.
I have mostly Hikvision cams and one el cheapo $40 cam. The cheapo works great and even gives a decent (not great) night picture. I bought it on a lark to be a garage camera but repurposed it "temporarily" to cover my front walk due to higher priority. The point is, sometimes cheap stuff works, sometimes it causes headaches.
From reading this thread my recommendation is do one of two things:
Either buy some fakes as deterrents and don't actually spend any real money, or put Blue Iris on a PC and buy one good camera for your most important spot and learn by doing. Budget for a POE switch, by the way. Once you get in and play with stuff you will be in a much better position to plan expansion based on experience.
My bet is you will get sucked in and gradually add cameras and so on, and by going one step at a time you won't be wasting money.
Best of luck to you and I hope to hear how it goes!
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk
Oh, and don't forget the costs of storage (suitable HDD like a WD purple), possibly a new router with good VPN oomph (I'm currently researching this one), and so on. Once you go through the looking Glass, the slope gets slippery.
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I'm limiting myself to posting only first-hand information about things I have actual experience with. The 4431r-z camera is stocked in the USA by multiple ebay vendors. I'm on the west coast, and the shipping time from a California vendor is 2 days. For those in the east, there is a cluster of stocking vendors in Kentucky.
fenderman
Staff member
- Mar 9, 2014
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Then you are providing misleading info, because you dont seem to have much first hand knowledge...starlights are available starting at 100 that is fact, varifolcal at 150 that is fact....so its not your false $203 dollar number as stated...stop deliberately misleading. From andy with DHL fast shipping the varifocal is 169
IPC HDW5231R ZE 2MP WDR IR Eyeball Network Camera IPC HDW5231R ZE ,free DHL shipping-in Surveillance Cameras from Security & Protection on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group
- Feb 22, 2018
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Frankenscript
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Thanks for the link. I may order one tonight!
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- Feb 22, 2018
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Frankenscript
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Hi Pernod. The linked one includes motorized zoom. Maybe I misunderstood but the $100 figure was for fixed focus I think. Maybe I'm wrong though. I'm on my phone and not a real computer so plan to review tonight from my home where I can get into details.
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