Comparing real pro cameras to home grade. More than resolution specs.

[wittaj]

Yeah you cannot go wrong with more visible light!

Keep in mind that PTZ cameras are a great compliment to an existing static/fixed cam system.

You wouldn't want to depend on a PTZ only as you can't have enough PTZs for a crew of perps coming thru - it would lock on one and miss the others, but it can provide great additional video.

See this thread on how to use your fixed cams to tell the PTZ where to look to help pick up even more useful video.

Thread 'Using Spotter Cameras to direct a PTZ where to look in an NVR or Blue Iris and setting a spotter cam as a priority in Blue Iris'

Mar 12, 2022

We get this question from time to time, so I thought with the recent addition to BI, it made sense to have a thread we can point to.

Previously in BI, if you had more than one spotter cam, you could not make one a priority, so if spotter cam #1 triggered the PTZ and it starts tracking and spotter cam #2 is triggered, it would then take the PTZ off of spotter cam #1 tracking and move to the preset for spotter cam #2.

Now with BI 5.5.6.0, you can go into the PTZ tab in the Camera setttings and go to the preset that you want to have priority and check the "cancel alerts when the camera is...

• wittaj
• Replies: 167
• Forum: Customizing

• 
• 

 

[fastline12]

Yeah you cannot go wrong with more visible light!

Keep in mind that PTZ cameras are a great compliment to an existing static/fixed cam system.

You wouldn't want to depend on a PTZ only as you can't have enough PTZs for a crew of perps coming thru - it would lock on one and miss the others, but it can provide great additional video.

See this thread on how to use your fixed cams to tell the PTZ where to look to help pick up even more useful video.

Thread 'Using Spotter Cameras to direct a PTZ where to look in an NVR or Blue Iris and setting a spotter cam as a priority in Blue Iris'

Mar 12, 2022

We get this question from time to time, so I thought with the recent addition to BI, it made sense to have a thread we can point to.

Previously in BI, if you had more than one spotter cam, you could not make one a priority, so if spotter cam #1 triggered the PTZ and it starts tracking and spotter cam #2 is triggered, it would then take the PTZ off of spotter cam #1 tracking and move to the preset for spotter cam #2.

Now with BI 5.5.6.0, you can go into the PTZ tab in the Camera setttings and go to the preset that you want to have priority and check the "cancel alerts when the camera is...

• wittaj
• Replies: 167
• Forum: Customizing

• 
• 

So much fun tech!
Quick question for ya. Seems largely I will have to select between 4mp and 8mp cam variants in the wild. I am trying to get a better grasp on selecting based on focal length, thus FOV, max distances of detailed interest, for either resolution. Obviously if we are to run a cam at a pretty high focal length, I'm not sure 8mp would be worth it?

I guess what I am gathering is higher resolution could pull a cleaner long distance shot, but possibly suffer from lack of lighting?

With around 20+ cams, I am trying to pinch were I can, knowing we still have to build/buy a server, consider NVR software, etc. The storage cost/frames/duration element has not yet been combed because I sort of need to figure out the pixies....

I am very much hoping that through such good AI filtering, we may not need a bunch of dead video, thus reduce overestimations for storage. If I an pin down 30 days worth, we are prob good with that.

 

[wittaj]

The problem right now with 8MP on the ideal MP/sensor ratio is that they demonstrate these cameras are not infinity focus and the turrets especially suffer from a vary narrow focus range of 15-17ish feet, and anything shorter or longer than that can be soft/blurry.

Because of that most of us only use those for overview to get color if we don't have enough light to run color on our other cameras.

Further, outside of the PTZs, there isn't a good varifocal 8MP camera on the ideal MP/sensor ratio. And they don't see infrared.

There is a 58IR 8MP camera that is on the same size sensor as the 4MP 54IR camera. IF you have enough light, you might be able to get away with the Z4E version at longer distances.

But the longer the zoom, the worse the fstop gets, so more light is needed.

Most here will say 4MP represents the best overall image.

Unless you want to get a few of these 8MP on the 1/1.2" sensor LOL:

https://www.amazon.com/EmpireTech-Sensitivity-Auto-Tracking-Protection-Recognition/dp/B0BRQ6ML1K

 

[fastline12]

The problem right now with 8MP on the ideal MP/sensor ratio is that they demonstrate these cameras are not infinity focus and the turrets especially suffer from a vary narrow focus range of 15-17ish feet, and anything shorter or longer than that can be soft/blurry.

Because of that most of us only use those for overview to get color if we don't have enough light to run color on our other cameras.

Further, outside of the PTZs, there isn't a good varifocal 8MP camera on the ideal MP/sensor ratio. And they don't see infrared.

There is a 58IR 8MP camera that is on the same size sensor as the 4MP 54IR camera. IF you have enough light, you might be able to get away with the Z4E version at longer distances.

But the longer the zoom, the worse the fstop gets, so more light is needed.

Most here will say 4MP represents the best overall image.

Unless you want to get a few of these 8MP on the 1/1.2" sensor LOL:

https://www.amazon.com/EmpireTech-Sensitivity-Auto-Tracking-Protection-Recognition/dp/B0BRQ6ML1K

Man, if we only needed a few! Those specs could really let us home in on the perps at 300ft with ease!

It does seem like 4mp should sit on s 1/1.8" sensor? 8mp at about 1/1.2"? Making clear that a lesser sensor on an 8 will prob pull great images during the day, but shi$ the bed largely at night? I sort of think we will be in a better position to have more cams rather than fewer high end ones. Just too many angles to cover.

And it seems at least with Empire, that price get large FAST.

Do most of these have the IVS functionality? I really like the trip wire features. Because humans or vehicles should not be near our fences at any time, Setting to 6ft beyond our own fence is ideal. If there is a human that close, 100% illegal anyway.

 

[wittaj]

Ideally you want to be in green for MP/sensor ratio. But if you have enough visible light or added external IR blasters, you might be able to get away with something in yellow.



Unless you go on the low end lines (like less than $100ish), it should come with AI and the IVS rules.


My system runs on this IVS AI! The true test....I have found the AI of the cameras to work even in a freakin blizzard....imagine how much the CPU/GPU would be maxing out sending all the snow pictures for analysis to CodeProject LOL. My non-AI cams in BI were triggering all night. This picture was ran through AI (without the IVS or red lines on it) and it failed to recognize a person in the picture, but the camera AI did. This pic says it all and the video had the red box over it even in complete white out on the screen:

Who uses Dahua AI capable cameras? Reliable AI for triggering events? Pro's/con's?


Make sure you reach out to @EMPIRETECANDY as he can usually put together a lower price if buying enough stuff.

 

[fastline12]

Ideally you want to be in green for MP/sensor ratio. But if you have enough visible light or added external IR blasters, you might be able to get away with something in yellow.

View attachment 205806

Unless you go on the low end lines (like less than $100ish), it should come with AI and the IVS rules.


My system runs on this IVS AI! The true test....I have found the AI of the cameras to work even in a freakin blizzard....imagine how much the CPU/GPU would be maxing out sending all the snow pictures for analysis to CodeProject LOL. My non-AI cams in BI were triggering all night. This picture was ran through AI (without the IVS or red lines on it) and it failed to recognize a person in the picture, but the camera AI did. This pic says it all and the video had the red box over it even in complete white out on the screen:

Who uses Dahua AI capable cameras? Reliable AI for triggering events? Pro's/con's?


Make sure you reach out to @EMPIRETECANDY as he can usually put together a lower price if buying enough stuff.

Damn! That is probably a good reason to ensure we have IR. That pic is crazy good! Not sure of distance though.

Will certainly reach out on deals. I'd say we are not looking for sub $100 cams, but not $3000 either. I believe 4mp with modern AI is light years ahead of what is there now. Running good CAT6 cable should help on the future proof, and plan to install several POE switches so we can add when needed.

Honestly trying to figure out if Dahua is a "fan club" here on IPCT. I do know from 2 security pros that China tech has been found piping cam feeds back to the mother ship. I do have the lab tests which are stunning. Cams were installed and functioning in government buildings. Scary shi$!

You really can't take these YT dudes seriously. They talk it up in specs, but their "official test" is running around barefoot in their own tiny yard. Let it be known that people who try to make a pointless living making a tiny living on YT by reviewing stuff they have used for 5min, does not help much other than the 5min experience. I requested a couple samples from Reolink since we are looking to spend real money on cams. They just wanted to know if I was a "content creator" or the like. They don't want to work for a sale, they want to send a free cam with the expectation of free positive press..... I will know once I run one, just like I figured out real quick with the old Sonys.

 

[Mike A.]

Honestly trying to figure out if Dahua is a "fan club" here on IPCT. I do know from 2 security pros that China tech has been found piping cam feeds back to the mother ship. I do have the lab tests which are stunning. Cams were installed and functioning in government buildings. Scary shi$!

It's a fan club to the extent that Dahua generally represents about the best features/functionality/performance/value for our money. And there's a good close-working vendor relationship which provides various benefits. If Axis or others want to give us competitive deals on their cams with equivalent specs/features I'm sure they'd have more fans. ; )

Most of us run with zero-trust as far as any cameras, Chinese or otherwise. Don't care who it is, they all get segregated and blocked to the extent that I can.

 

[wittaj]

EVERY camera is a security risk if given internet access. It is why we do not give them internet access. That is the real problem that the government isn't addressing.

To combat the China thing, government needs to now buy NDAA compliant gear, which doesn't fix the original problem - don't let this stuff touch the internet.

Even high end NDAA compliant Axis got hacked last year.

Block the cams from the internet and go with the best bang for the buck and that will be Dahua and Hik and not 5 times the cost axis lol.

NDAA compliant Verkada was hacked and 150,000 cameras in private companies, along with prisons and public school systems were part of it..

It is why we recommend DO NOT LET YOUR CAMERAS OR NVR TOUCH THE INTERNET. You isolate them via VLAN or dual NIC.


At the end of the day there are not that many manufacturers out there. Dahua and Hikvision probably make more than the other manufacturers combined.

Many years ago IPVM made a little graphic showing some of the companies that sell Dahua or Hikvision OEM under their own label. This is just a partial sampling as the number of companies for each is in the hundreds, if not thousands.

Then you have other companies like Axis that costs 5 or 6 times what a Dahua camera costs. Or Reolink that suffers from poor night time quality. Or any of the consumer based stuff like Ring or Nest that are horrible at night as shown in this thread.


A member here is currently testing a $2,300 Axis camera and it doesn't come close to the performance of the less than $300 Dahua camera....

At the end of the day, most of us feel like Dahua is currently the leader in terms of price, performance day and night, reliability, functionality, etc.

So if you want to call us a fan club, then yea LOL. I have boxes and boxes of all types of cameras I have tried and none come close to the 2am quality I can get with Dahua cameras.


As mentioned, we have a trusted member here @EMPIRETECANDY that sells Dahua OEM gear. He used to also sell Hikvision gear, but moved away as their offerings are not as good and the cameras are more difficult to setup.

Andy's cameras are Dahua OEM equipment sold under the names Loryta and Empiretech. He also supplies them to the ipcamtalk store.

Some of my cameras I have bought from Andy from his Amazon store come as Dahua cams in Dahua boxes with Dahua logos, and some are not logo'd - I think it depends on how many cameras Andy buys if he gets them with the Dahua Logo or not. But regardless, they are Dahua units. If you get a unit that has Dahua on it, then the camera GUI will say Dahua; otherwise it will simply say IP Camera but looks identical except without the logo. Some of his cameras may come with EmpireTech stamped on them as well.

His cameras and NVRs are international models and many of them are not available through Dahua USA authorized dealers, but his cameras and NVRs are usually better than what you can find from a USA authorized dealer.

You can update the firmware on Andy's cameras and NVRs from the Dahua website, thus proving they are real Dahua. But you will find that the firmware we get from him is actually better and more recent than what is on the Dahua website because many members here provide feedback to Andy and then Dahua makes modifications to the firmware and sends back to him and then he sends out to his customers. These have been great improvements that Dahua doesn't even update their firmware and add to their website. So many of us are running a newer firmware than those that purchase Dahua cameras through professional installers. Smart IR on the 5442 series is one such improvement. Autotracking on the 49225 and 49425 PTZ is another. We got the next version of AI SMD 3.0 prior to anyone else as well.

Look at the threads here where members are actually testing firmware and improving it for Dahua - find a Dahua dealer with that type of relationship that Andy has with Dahua - I don't think you will find it. Look at the Dahua 4k camera on the 1/1.2" sensor as an example - Dahua provides cameras to Andy to sell before Dahua even made it available and look at all the improvements being made to the firmware from input from customers right here on this site. And the kicker is, we are not Dahua's target market - it is the professional installers...

 

[fastline12]

EVERY camera is a security risk if given internet access. It is why we do not give them internet access. That is the real problem that the government isn't addressing.

To combat the China thing, government needs to now buy NDAA compliant gear, which doesn't fix the original problem - don't let this stuff touch the internet.

Even high end NDAA compliant Axis got hacked last year.

Block the cams from the internet and go with the best bang for the buck and that will be Dahua and Hik and not 5 times the cost axis lol.

NDAA compliant Verkada was hacked and 150,000 cameras in private companies, along with prisons and public school systems were part of it..

It is why we recommend DO NOT LET YOUR CAMERAS OR NVR TOUCH THE INTERNET. You isolate them via VLAN or dual NIC.


At the end of the day there are not that many manufacturers out there. Dahua and Hikvision probably make more than the other manufacturers combined.

Many years ago IPVM made a little graphic showing some of the companies that sell Dahua or Hikvision OEM under their own label. This is just a partial sampling as the number of companies for each is in the hundreds, if not thousands.

Then you have other companies like Axis that costs 5 or 6 times what a Dahua camera costs. Or Reolink that suffers from poor night time quality. Or any of the consumer based stuff like Ring or Nest that are horrible at night as shown in this thread.


A member here is currently testing a $2,300 Axis camera and it doesn't come close to the performance of the less than $300 Dahua camera....

At the end of the day, most of us feel like Dahua is currently the leader in terms of price, performance day and night, reliability, functionality, etc.

So if you want to call us a fan club, then yea LOL. I have boxes and boxes of all types of cameras I have tried and none come close to the 2am quality I can get with Dahua cameras.


As mentioned, we have a trusted member here @EMPIRETECANDY that sells Dahua OEM gear. He used to also sell Hikvision gear, but moved away as their offerings are not as good and the cameras are more difficult to setup.

Andy's cameras are Dahua OEM equipment sold under the names Loryta and Empiretech. He also supplies them to the ipcamtalk store.

Some of my cameras I have bought from Andy from his Amazon store come as Dahua cams in Dahua boxes with Dahua logos, and some are not logo'd - I think it depends on how many cameras Andy buys if he gets them with the Dahua Logo or not. But regardless, they are Dahua units. If you get a unit that has Dahua on it, then the camera GUI will say Dahua; otherwise it will simply say IP Camera but looks identical except without the logo. Some of his cameras may come with EmpireTech stamped on them as well.

His cameras and NVRs are international models and many of them are not available through Dahua USA authorized dealers, but his cameras and NVRs are usually better than what you can find from a USA authorized dealer.

You can update the firmware on Andy's cameras and NVRs from the Dahua website, thus proving they are real Dahua. But you will find that the firmware we get from him is actually better and more recent than what is on the Dahua website because many members here provide feedback to Andy and then Dahua makes modifications to the firmware and sends back to him and then he sends out to his customers. These have been great improvements that Dahua doesn't even update their firmware and add to their website. So many of us are running a newer firmware than those that purchase Dahua cameras through professional installers. Smart IR on the 5442 series is one such improvement. Autotracking on the 49225 and 49425 PTZ is another. We got the next version of AI SMD 3.0 prior to anyone else as well.

Look at the threads here where members are actually testing firmware and improving it for Dahua - find a Dahua dealer with that type of relationship that Andy has with Dahua - I don't think you will find it. Look at the Dahua 4k camera on the 1/1.2" sensor as an example - Dahua provides cameras to Andy to sell before Dahua even made it available and look at all the improvements being made to the firmware from input from customers right here on this site. And the kicker is, we are not Dahua's target market - it is the professional installers...

Super appreciate the help! Had honestly zero idea a month ago that pro cam tech was mostly main stream. Bad for perps, great for us. I'm still soaking it up, but will have to make decisions and move on something soon. I will most certainly reach out to Empire soon.

But to move this along, is BI an NVR software? I am trying to grasp that at the moment. Everyone here agrees it's the jam. I certainly like a slam dunk deal. My IT guys can certainly cook up a killer server to run it all, I am just trying to sort it all.

No comments on POE switchies? When place those, I am trying to plan and future proof a few things. Seems like 8ch be the typical max for today?

 

[wittaj]

Yes BI is a VMS software.

I used NVRs for years and found them clunky. Tried the demo of BI and knew within minutes it was better than every NVR I had.

But many here love NVRs and tried BI and didn't like it.

Many here will be used enterprise POE switches off eBay that can be more than 8 channels and they buy one large enough for all their cameras.

Others will be 8 channel netgear and daisy chain as needed if more than 8 cameras.

 

[steve1225]

Still soaking things up. Did have a question though. Seems many here are fans of the Dahua or relabeled gear. But in some of the testing I have seen on YT would indicate they, or maybe any camera, may struggle to get a crisp image at night? Lots of blurred images, over exposed license plates, etc.

Basically some of my conclusions are these, all cameras will struggle at night without light. IR is just not a replacement for visible light. The question is how much visible light is needed to keep a camera on point? We are firmly addressing lighting and because this is commercial, probably not going to skimp much here.

One of you guys I read posts from maybe last year to largely ignore daytime performance. They can all do it. Focus on the worst condition performance.

What I am hoping is our focus on new lighting will aid our cams all the way around.

If You mobile (iPhone or Android) will do film footage in color in specified lighting then Dahua 54IR / 5442 will do color footage at night even at 1/100 (1/120 in USA).
If You go will longer exposure (1/60 or 1/30) then even at black conditions for iPhone, 5442 will do color footage.

The best solution is simply to buy one 54IR-ZE for shorter zoom and 54IR-Z4E for longer zoom and play with them on site.
if You want to see difference between 58IR-ZE / 58IR-Z4E and 54IR-ZE You can order also one..
You can put SD-Card inside camera (only Endurance series for 24/7 writing scenario - like Samsung PRO Endurance 256GB) and use camera directly over Web / SmartPSS / DMSS..

For higher buildings best are bullet cameras - they can be easily mounted to vertical walls.
Cameras shouldn't be mounter higher that 3 meters (to see faces).
Please remember that PFA121 junction box or PFA156 pole mount bracket for 54IR bullets are not included - they are available in accessories category in Andy shop.

If You talk about doing white 'street' lighting around buildings or plots, the more important factor will be no how strong this lighting is but how evenly distributed the lighting is.
With very strong lights every longer distance the will be always problem that some part are very visible for cams and some parts not.
Human eye don't see those differences that much as digital cameras.

 

[steve1225]

So much fun tech!
Quick question for ya. Seems largely I will have to select between 4mp and 8mp cam variants in the wild. I am trying to get a better grasp on selecting based on focal length, thus FOV, max distances of detailed interest, for either resolution. Obviously if we are to run a cam at a pretty high focal length, I'm not sure 8mp would be worth it?

I guess what I am gathering is higher resolution could pull a cleaner long distance shot, but possibly suffer from lack of lighting?

With around 20+ cams, I am trying to pinch were I can, knowing we still have to build/buy a server, consider NVR software, etc. The storage cost/frames/duration element has not yet been combed because I sort of need to figure out the pixies....

I am very much hoping that through such good AI filtering, we may not need a bunch of dead video, thus reduce overestimations for storage. If I an pin down 30 days worth, we are prob good with that.

I give You tool (CCTV Design Tool - Application) where You can put over building/plot's satellite map picture, different models (like 5442-ZE, 5442-Z4E, 5842-ZE, 5842-Z4E, 5241-Z12E, some PTZ models).. You can widen or narrow the FoV (Field of View) of each camera model (of course between min and max zoom parameters for each camera model) and this tool will draw You (using colors) DORI distances (Identify, Observer etc) for specified models at specified zoom / FoV fields..

This app will shows You capability / usage of each camera model..
Not only Dahua, but also other companies (HIK, Axis etc)...

This is main tool how to project cctv system for something bigger that simple house..

Also as I wrote in previous post - You should order 1 camera in each model You are interested and simply play with them.

 

[steve1225]

Damn! That is probably a good reason to ensure we have IR. That pic is crazy good! Not sure of distance though.

Will certainly reach out on deals. I'd say we are not looking for sub $100 cams, but not $3000 either. I believe 4mp with modern AI is light years ahead of what is there now. Running good CAT6 cable should help on the future proof, and plan to install several POE switches so we can add when needed.

Honestly trying to figure out if Dahua is a "fan club" here on IPCT. I do know from 2 security pros that China tech has been found piping cam feeds back to the mother ship. I do have the lab tests which are stunning. Cams were installed and functioning in government buildings. Scary shi$!

You really can't take these YT dudes seriously. They talk it up in specs, but their "official test" is running around barefoot in their own tiny yard. Let it be known that people who try to make a pointless living making a tiny living on YT by reviewing stuff they have used for 5min, does not help much other than the 5min experience. I requested a couple samples from Reolink since we are looking to spend real money on cams. They just wanted to know if I was a "content creator" or the like. They don't want to work for a sale, they want to send a free cam with the expectation of free positive press..... I will know once I run one, just like I figured out real quick with the old Sonys.

1. CAT5E is enough.. But very important is that cable was FULL COPPER and 23AWG (no cheap 26AWG). 23AWG have thicker copper conductor, which on longer cable runs have lower voltage / signal loss..

2. yes, we are big Dahua fans here on the forum. I migrated from HIK, had opportunity to play / install Axis, Bosch, Avigilon, Unifi.. I did 50+ cams systems.. In Dahua case, especially at Andy prices (3-4x lower that official Dahua distribution MSRPs) they are best value / money.. Many other people here on forum had similar experiences..

Yes Dahua is not IDEAL.. there are problems like not so good mobile / desktop apps (SmartPSS and DMSS are more like pre 2000 apps).. some new firmware versions removes or damages existing features.. some features sometimes on some models can be not finished at required levels..

3. there is a lot of bullshit now in western countries (especially the USA) about security of Chinese products.

China has flooded the world with much cheaper products and gained high market share.
There is an attempt to eliminate their products using various arguments. Safety / security is one of them.

Each cameras manufacturer have security flaws every some time.
The best solution is simply isolate CCTV system in separate network / VLAN. Upgrade firmwares to newest versions... And limit internet access.

Dahua cams / NVR pings 'mother ship' only when You enable P2P (cloud) access (default setting).
This is how device cloud management works in case of any product / technology (inteligent fridge, SmartTV, vacuum robot etc) - there must be 'mother ship' server which works between IoT device and Your mobile app.

If You disable P2P (and date/time synchronization) then there is zero internet traffic from cameras / NVRs registered by firewall / router..
Checked by me on many networks / firewalls / Dahua installations...

 

[steve1225]

Super appreciate the help! Had honestly zero idea a month ago that pro cam tech was mostly main stream. Bad for perps, great for us. I'm still soaking it up, but will have to make decisions and move on something soon. I will most certainly reach out to Empire soon.

But to move this along, is BI an NVR software? I am trying to grasp that at the moment. Everyone here agrees it's the jam. I certainly like a slam dunk deal. My IT guys can certainly cook up a killer server to run it all, I am just trying to sort it all.

No comments on POE switchies? When place those, I am trying to plan and future proof a few things. Seems like 8ch be the typical max for today?

You don't want to play with BI..
BI is good for older cams / system with limited or no AI..
Or installations where You have cameras from different manufactures..
And only for people who like to tinker in BI for many days to get basic features work

In case of a new modern Dahua only install, Dahua NVR is the best solution to use..
You have support / integrated all Dahua cameras features (normal or AI) by NVR..
SMD, IVS, AcuPick, Video Meta Data, Face Detection & Recognition - everything simply works..
NVR can be configured and working in 10 minutes..

The only question is what NVR model / line to choose.
The 'basic' PRO line is 5xxx-EI.. Which is cheap (300-600 USD) and have models up to 32 cams (yes there is 64 cam model, but not recommended).
it supports all 54IR/58IR AI features...
Main limitation in this line is low AI power on NVR to add extra AI features to cameras (one AI function done on camera, another one done on NVR).

The higher ULTRA line is 6xx-XI.. Costs more (1K+ USD), have models for 32/64/128 cams..
And a lot of more AI power and mixing capabilities to add many different AI capabilities to different cameras..
Only minus: firmware for 6xx-XI is behind firmware for 5xxx-EI (this is ultra stable line, so there is big delay between novelties are added)..

 

[wittaj]

You don't want to play with BI..
BI is good for older cams / system with limited or no AI..
Or installations where You have cameras from different manufactures..
And only for people who like to tinker in BI for many days to get basic features work

Hey now, many of us have newer cams with AI and can do incredible things with BI.

Does your NVR allow you to have a spotter cam not call the PTZ to a preset if the PTZ is in active tracking from another trigger LOL or will it call the PTZ for every trigger of the spotter cam LOL (it is the latter LOL).

My neighbor recently bought the 5xxxx line of NVR and it is a royal pain for me every time he calls needing something adjusted or fixed LOL.

We had an incident last night and I could find it in BI and export out in under 30 seconds. I could only find it quicker on his because I knew what time it was since I found it on mine first LOL, and even with that it wasn't 30 seconds to find it and export out LOL.

But to the OP, you can see there is a big fan base for BI and NVR. The debate goes on LOL.

Here is the search tool of all the NVR versus BI comparisons. I suggest you spend time looking at these and decide for yourself:

blue iris vs nvr ip cam site:ipcamtalk.com - Google Search

 

[steve1225]

Hey now, many of us have newer cams with AI and can do incredible things with BI.

Does your NVR allow you to have a spotter cam not call the PTZ to a preset if the PTZ is in active tracking from another trigger LOL or will it call the PTZ for every trigger of the spotter cam LOL (it is the latter LOL).

My neighbor recently bought the 5xxxx line of NVR and it is a royal pain for me every time he calls needing something adjusted or fixed LOL.

We had an incident last night and I could find it in BI and export out in under 30 seconds. I could only find it quicker on his because I knew what time it was since I found it on mine first LOL, and even with that it wasn't 30 seconds to find it and export out LOL.

But to the OP, you can see there is a big fan base for BI and NVR. The debate goes on LOL.

Here is the search tool of all the NVR versus BI comparisons. I suggest you spend time looking at these and decide for yourself:

blue iris vs nvr ip cam site:ipcamtalk.com - Google Search

@wittaj You are heavy user of BI - You known BI 10x better that Dahua NVR.. So it's normal You can do many things on BI much faster that on Dahua NVR..

I'm heavy user of Dahua NVRs.. I do things that 99% normal installers don't know that are even possible on Dahua cams / NVRs.
And I can use more advanced forms of Dahua cams AI (AcuPick 1.0 / 2.0, Video Meta Data, Face detection / recognition), which are not to easy possible to support on BI..

Yes BI can be more flexible here or there. it's a software for people who needs tons of different options / possibilities but it requires a lot of more knowledge and time to setup (especially for beginner doing this first time).

Dahua NVR will be much easier to configure / use / understand for most of new people.
Especially when they had before some cctv system working on NVR..

NVRs are designed to setup and run for years, without any interventions.
Windows servers with some software not so much...
If something will broke it will be much easier for that company to find someone on market who knowns NVRs than someone who known BI to support / repair this.
Company cost for put & support Windows server with some software (even cheap as BI) will be higher that put & support Dahua NVR..

VMS software is good for bigger systems with >50 or >100 cameras. Especially in multiple locations. Mixing different vendors.
For smaller & unified systems NVRs are much simpler solution.

 

[wittaj]

@wittaj You are heavy user of BI - You known BI 10x better that Dahua NVR.. So it's normal You can do many things on BI much faster that on Dahua NVR..

I'm heavy user of Dahua NVRs.. I do things that 99% normal installers don't know that are even possible on Dahua cams / NVRs.
And I can use more advanced forms of Dahua cams AI (AcuPick 1.0 / 2.0, Video Meta Data, Face detection / recognition), which are not to easy possible to support on BI..

Yes BI can be more flexible here or there. it's a software for people who needs tons of different options / possibilities but it requires a lot of more knowledge and time to setup (especially for beginner doing this first time).

Dahua NVR will be much easier to configure / use / understand for most of new people.
Especially when they had before some cctv system working on NVR..

NVRs are designed to setup and run for years, without any interventions.
Windows servers with some software not so much...
If something will broke it will be much easier for that company to find someone on market who knowns NVRs than someone who known BI to support / repair this.

True LOL, but I also came from the NVR world (granted it was before all the camera AI stuff) and you have to admit those were some pain in the butt years LOL.

One can set up BI quickly with the BI basics and performs comparably to an NVR out of the box. It is all the customizations that can take time if one goes down that path.

People wrongfully assume NVRs are more reliable than a PC.

A BI/PC combo is always less expensive than an NVR. Sure there are NVRs cheaper, but they are limited. Not all NVRs are created equal. Sure you can buy a cheaper NVR but it is limited to 40Mbps, which depending on how someone sets up the cameras, could mean that an 8 channel NVR can only run 4 cameras.

Turn off Windows and BI auto updates and have the computer autostart on a shutdown and run BI as a service and you have a more powerful NVR that is probably more secure than an NVR that rarely gets updates (even though the NVR fans challenge me on that statement LOL).

Since the BI computer is being used as a stand-alone device, the device isn't out surfing the Internet so the value of the critical updates are not as critical.

Plus the computer will have virus protection software on it that an NVR doesn't.

BI allows for anonymous update of performance data. People have had it running nonstop for over 2465 days, or almost 7 years... And I suspect that the last time it rebooted was when they manually did it...I was an NVR user before I made the switch and I never had an NVR last 5 years LOL

I have had whatever the NVR operating system is running on go out. TWICE. Got to buy a whole new NVR - TWICE

I have had the ethernet port go out on an NVR. Got to buy a whole new NVR.

I had the HDMI port go out on an NVR. Got to buy a whole new NVR.

Most I ever got was 2.5 years. The only working part was the HDD that I simply moved from the old NVR to the new one. I got to the point of realizing that an NVR is simply a stripped down computer, so I went to BI and never looked back. I got tired of buying a whole new unit.

So in my BI Computer, at least if the SSD goes out, I can just replace it. If the ethernet card goes out, I can just replace it. If the HDMI port goes out, I can just replace it. etc.

Or maybe I just had bad luck with NVRs LOL.

 

[fastline12]

True LOL, but I also came from the NVR world (granted it was before all the camera AI stuff) and you have to admit those were some pain in the butt years LOL.

One can set up BI quickly with the BI basics and performs comparably to an NVR out of the box. It is all the customizations that can take time if one goes down that path.

People wrongfully assume NVRs are more reliable than a PC.

A BI/PC combo is always less expensive than an NVR. Sure there are NVRs cheaper, but they are limited. Not all NVRs are created equal. Sure you can buy a cheaper NVR but it is limited to 40Mbps, which depending on how someone sets up the cameras, could mean that an 8 channel NVR can only run 4 cameras.

Turn off Windows and BI auto updates and have the computer autostart on a shutdown and run BI as a service and you have a more powerful NVR that is probably more secure than an NVR that rarely gets updates (even though the NVR fans challenge me on that statement LOL).

Since the BI computer is being used as a stand-alone device, the device isn't out surfing the Internet so the value of the critical updates are not as critical.

Plus the computer will have virus protection software on it that an NVR doesn't.

BI allows for anonymous update of performance data. People have had it running nonstop for over 2465 days, or almost 7 years... And I suspect that the last time it rebooted was when they manually did it...I was an NVR user before I made the switch and I never had an NVR last 5 years LOL

I have had whatever the NVR operating system is running on go out. TWICE. Got to buy a whole new NVR - TWICE

I have had the ethernet port go out on an NVR. Got to buy a whole new NVR.

I had the HDMI port go out on an NVR. Got to buy a whole new NVR.

Most I ever got was 2.5 years. The only working part was the HDD that I simply moved from the old NVR to the new one. I got to the point of realizing that an NVR is simply a stripped down computer, so I went to BI and never looked back. I got tired of buying a whole new unit.

So in my BI Computer, at least if the SSD goes out, I can just replace it. If the ethernet card goes out, I can just replace it. If the HDMI port goes out, I can just replace it. etc.

Or maybe I just had bad luck with NVRs LOL.

I will certainly review your NVR link.
I might like to discuss this part as we are probably at that stage. I would invite Steve's opinion. Just a highlight, our IT guy is level expert, who usual builds our PCs ground up. There are different classes of PCs. When we build a "can't fail" machine, it gets enterprise/industrial everything, running on Linux, etc.

I think what I have issue with is buying the proprietary 'hardware', when all we really need is the 'software'. How about Dahua offer a software package? My main issues are if the NVR has a hardware issue or if we want to try another vendor cam down the road. I don't like being stuck.

Regarding price, I'm not worried at all in the hardware side. Fully expect to spend at least $1k to build one right, BUT we are discussing a dedicated server which means since we are building one, we will have stuff like our access data and other files on it. Obviously partitioned, firewalled, etc. If we buy an NVR, we will have none of this so have to get two machines.

But on this forum, it seems like BI is the only thing really talked about. There are no other options? Not as good? 10x the price? Is it the industry norm for a cam system to be all one brand, along with their own software? Axis for example?

I will say this, once we get this stuff settled, it is likely we will buy a FLIR PTZ to track targets out to 500-800ft. It is not an intent to ID, but to relay info back to law enforcement about activity that should not be happening. IE, shut them down before we have to deal with it inside our fences.

 

[wittaj]

Dahua does have a commercial software version available- not cheap.

Their PC-NVR software that is free is poor and not worth the effort.

Other commercial VMS systems cost a lot more. Some of the cheaper ones are the price of BI for each camera.

But for some businesses those commercial VMS systems are a better choice. For the average homeowner, not so much.

 

[steve1225]

This thread started with question about using some very old demounted 720p cam system taken for next to nothing.
Then we went through Dahua OEM 5 series cameras from Empiretech (150-250 USD), then PTZ and PTZ+panorama cameras (400-2K USD) which were too much, but now thermal PTZ from FLIR (8-20K USD) is being considered.
Same with VMS solution - where we have BI for 79 USD + some cheap desktop hardware, then Dahua NVR (400-1200 USD) and we now talk about professional VMS solutions (5-20K USD for a system up to 32 cameras - hardware + license + support).

Basic question: what budget is this system supposed to be made for?

Because without this information/declaration this thread really becomes a purely theoretical consideration..