I need to capture license plates coming through a single entrance/exit that is 35ft wide. I can mount the camera approximately 10ft high. I can mount the camera on a pole 60ft away. I must catch every plate. Particularly at night. I have attached an image of the entrance from another camera that I have 190ft away. This camera has 5x optical zoom and is zoomed to the max. What specs do I need in a camera to achieve this?
Dedicated license plate camera
- Thread starter JoshM
- Start date
You need a ton of optical zoom to basically have just the vehicle in the field of view.
Keep in mind that this is a camera dedicated to plates and not an overview camera also. It is as much an art as it is a science. You will need two cameras. For LPR we need to zoom in tight to make the plate as large as possible. For most of us, all you see is the not much more than a vehicle in the entire frame. Now maybe in the right location during the day it might be able to see some other things, but not at night.
At night, we have to run a very fast shutter speed (1/2,000) and in B/W with IR and the image will be black. All you will see are head/tail lights and the plate. Some people can get away with color if they have enough street lights, but most of us cannot. Here is a representative sample of plates I get at night of vehicles traveling about 45MPH at 175 feet from my 2MP camera (that is all that is needed for plates):
Most of us go with the 5241E-Z12E for this because it has the best focal length. This will work for most people up to around 180 feet with internal infrared. Some have been able to squeeze more to about 220 feet with external infrared.
If your distance from plate to camera is less than 60 feet, you could go with the 5442-Z4E and if within 30 feet you could go with a cheaper 2MP varifocal.
Keep in mind the above-referenced cameras do not actually read the plates. They are set up to allow you to manually visually read them. You can use a 3rd party tool to actually read and log the plates if that is what you want.
The true LPR cameras that read plates would not have enough zoom. They would max out around 60-ish feet or so.
Take a look at the LPR subforum for more:
Keep in mind that this is a camera dedicated to plates and not an overview camera also. It is as much an art as it is a science. You will need two cameras. For LPR we need to zoom in tight to make the plate as large as possible. For most of us, all you see is the not much more than a vehicle in the entire frame. Now maybe in the right location during the day it might be able to see some other things, but not at night.
At night, we have to run a very fast shutter speed (1/2,000) and in B/W with IR and the image will be black. All you will see are head/tail lights and the plate. Some people can get away with color if they have enough street lights, but most of us cannot. Here is a representative sample of plates I get at night of vehicles traveling about 45MPH at 175 feet from my 2MP camera (that is all that is needed for plates):
Most of us go with the 5241E-Z12E for this because it has the best focal length. This will work for most people up to around 180 feet with internal infrared. Some have been able to squeeze more to about 220 feet with external infrared.
If your distance from plate to camera is less than 60 feet, you could go with the 5442-Z4E and if within 30 feet you could go with a cheaper 2MP varifocal.
Keep in mind the above-referenced cameras do not actually read the plates. They are set up to allow you to manually visually read them. You can use a 3rd party tool to actually read and log the plates if that is what you want.
The true LPR cameras that read plates would not have enough zoom. They would max out around 60-ish feet or so.
Take a look at the LPR subforum for more:
Thank you for this info. It is very helpful. I would like to ask. Since I wish to capture plates at an entrance (where cars are moving slowly) do I still need to get a fast shutter speed?You need a ton of optical zoom to basically have just the vehicle in the field of view.
Keep in mind that this is a camera dedicated to plates and not an overview camera also. It is as much an art as it is a science. You will need two cameras. For LPR we need to zoom in tight to make the plate as large as possible. For most of us, all you see is the not much more than a vehicle in the entire frame. Now maybe in the right location during the day it might be able to see some other things, but not at night.
At night, we have to run a very fast shutter speed (1/2,000) and in B/W with IR and the image will be black. All you will see are head/tail lights and the plate. Some people can get away with color if they have enough street lights, but most of us cannot. Here is a representative sample of plates I get at night of vehicles traveling about 45MPH at 175 feet from my 2MP camera (that is all that is needed for plates):
Most of us go with the 5241E-Z12E for this because it has the best focal length. This will work for most people up to around 180 feet with internal infrared. Some have been able to squeeze more to about 220 feet with external infrared.
If your distance from plate to camera is less than 60 feet, you could go with the 5442-Z4E and if within 30 feet you could go with a cheaper 2MP varifocal.
Keep in mind the above-referenced cameras do not actually read the plates. They are set up to allow you to manually visually read them. You can use a 3rd party tool to actually read and log the plates if that is what you want.
The true LPR cameras that read plates would not have enough zoom. They would max out around 60-ish feet or so.
Take a look at the LPR subforum for more:
You will still need a faster shutter speed than any default/auto setting would provide.
If it has to run in B/W with infrared, the faster shutter allows the plate to not be washed out from the infrared.
The faster the shutter, the more light that is needed, which is how we can run a 1/2000 shutter at night and take advantage of the reflective properties of plates.
Some people can get away with running it in color at night at a slower shutter (1/250) because they have a lot of light and they are at a stop sign.
You are probably somewhere in between based on that image.
Only way to know is to try for sure. But if someone is whipping in there at 15-20MPH because they are up to no good, you will need a fast shutter to capture that.
mat200
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Hi @JoshM
Check out the DORI section of the cliff notes .. while that covers IDing someone you can also use the equation listed there to help see how many pixels you can get at your target range for license plate captures .. iirc 60-80 ppf or along that lines for license plate capture ( do double check, as I am just recalling a spec )
I saw where you said some people capture tags at 190-220ft with the Z12E. Based off the picture do you think its possible I could catch plates at the location that is 190ft away? That would keep me from having to go through the hassle of pole mounting and using additional hardware. I need to be sure it will work though. My customers want every plate that enters. If you arent certain it would work then I will just purchase the Z12E and put it on the pole. Also, Im not certain these cams will sync up with my NVR so I assume I can use an SD card and use it as a standalon camera but do i have access to all features through web access without an NVR?You need a ton of optical zoom to basically have just the vehicle in the field of view.
Keep in mind that this is a camera dedicated to plates and not an overview camera also. It is as much an art as it is a science. You will need two cameras. For LPR we need to zoom in tight to make the plate as large as possible. For most of us, all you see is the not much more than a vehicle in the entire frame. Now maybe in the right location during the day it might be able to see some other things, but not at night.
At night, we have to run a very fast shutter speed (1/2,000) and in B/W with IR and the image will be black. All you will see are head/tail lights and the plate. Some people can get away with color if they have enough street lights, but most of us cannot. Here is a representative sample of plates I get at night of vehicles traveling about 45MPH at 175 feet from my 2MP camera (that is all that is needed for plates):
Most of us go with the 5241E-Z12E for this because it has the best focal length. This will work for most people up to around 180 feet with internal infrared. Some have been able to squeeze more to about 220 feet with external infrared.
If your distance from plate to camera is less than 60 feet, you could go with the 5442-Z4E and if within 30 feet you could go with a cheaper 2MP varifocal.
Keep in mind the above-referenced cameras do not actually read the plates. They are set up to allow you to manually visually read them. You can use a 3rd party tool to actually read and log the plates if that is what you want.
The true LPR cameras that read plates would not have enough zoom. They would max out around 60-ish feet or so.
Take a look at the LPR subforum for more:
No camera will capture EVERY plate as we will get one that is a temp tag, they put it in the window instead of the bumper, a rusty plate, dirty plate, missing plate, cover on plate, etc.
You do have in your favor ambient light and slower speeds, so you stand a better chance than most at a longer distance.
I have tested mine from 50 feet to 220 feet. At 50 feet I don't have the proper angle, so a lot of plates were missed - I think around 75% success. At 220 feet is my optimal straight on shot, but we have zero streetlights and I was able to get about half of the plates with the camera IR. Some here have been able to use an external IR to get those further distances.
My image above at 175 feet is my optimal to get most plates. The dirty or rusty or temp tag usually isn't readable, but well over 99% are. But when I tried to stretch it to 190 feet (which I tried again just two weeks ago), it dropped to 75%.
The closer you can get to the plate the better. Not always possible. Those running the Z12E at 50 feet have much better chances than the 190 feet.
Most of use here recommend the Z12E over the Z4E because they are the same price and the Z12E has double the zoom so it is more versatile.
So I would say get the Z12E and see if will work at 190 feet, but then be prepared to move it closer if needed.
Which NVR do you have? As long as it is ONVIF capable, you should be able to pull it in.
You will actually have more access to the features by not going thru the NVR. You can log into the camera GUI by typing in the IP address of the camera and gain full access to all the features.
In the event that this camera cannot connect to the NVR, then yes you can do the SD card route and use the camera GUI to playback or one of the DMSS or SmartPSS options on a phone or computer.
You do have in your favor ambient light and slower speeds, so you stand a better chance than most at a longer distance.
I have tested mine from 50 feet to 220 feet. At 50 feet I don't have the proper angle, so a lot of plates were missed - I think around 75% success. At 220 feet is my optimal straight on shot, but we have zero streetlights and I was able to get about half of the plates with the camera IR. Some here have been able to use an external IR to get those further distances.
My image above at 175 feet is my optimal to get most plates. The dirty or rusty or temp tag usually isn't readable, but well over 99% are. But when I tried to stretch it to 190 feet (which I tried again just two weeks ago), it dropped to 75%.
The closer you can get to the plate the better. Not always possible. Those running the Z12E at 50 feet have much better chances than the 190 feet.
Most of use here recommend the Z12E over the Z4E because they are the same price and the Z12E has double the zoom so it is more versatile.
So I would say get the Z12E and see if will work at 190 feet, but then be prepared to move it closer if needed.
Which NVR do you have? As long as it is ONVIF capable, you should be able to pull it in.
You will actually have more access to the features by not going thru the NVR. You can log into the camera GUI by typing in the IP address of the camera and gain full access to all the features.
In the event that this camera cannot connect to the NVR, then yes you can do the SD card route and use the camera GUI to playback or one of the DMSS or SmartPSS options on a phone or computer.
sebastiantombs
Known around here
Look in these threads. Al the information you'll need is covered in them,
LPR
ipcamtalk.com
ipcamtalk.com
ipcamtalk.com
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Flintstone61
Known around here
This is the overview cam and the LPR combo. Reading plates in the range of 60-80 feet.
If I move the cam up and left i could read out at 100-120.
I'm getting 99.9 % of the plates.
If I move the cam up and left i could read out at 100-120.
I'm getting 99.9 % of the plates.
Last edited:
Flintstone61
Known around here
TechieTech
Getting the hang of it
35 feet wide is a very tall order as you need plates to be about 100 pixels wide for good viewing. The recommended and popular HFW5841E-Z12E is a 2MP camera which won't give you enough pixels per foot if you're aiming that wide.
Your best hope would be a IPC-B5442E-Z4E (4MP) but you will still end up with plates below 100 pixels wide.
Your best hope would be a IPC-B5442E-Z4E (4MP) but you will still end up with plates below 100 pixels wide.
Oh yeah, good catch. I just noticed that he wants to cover a 35 foot wide opening - that is more than one camera to get almost EVERY PLATE.
I can tell you that many here tried to use the Z4E at 60 feet and have it be the normal try to get no more than the size of the vehicle in the frame and ended up switching it out for the Z12E.
I tried my Z4E at 60 feet and you miss a lot of plates and I zoomed it to max zoom. And no way would that cover 35 feet wide. 12 feet maybe, but too many plates were hard to read.
Within the DORI section there are two lens types listed "w"and "t"can you explaion this?
The Z4E is 4MP with a motorized lense that goes up to 32mm. The Z12E is 2MP but zooms to 64mm. I spoke with someone and they said the 32mm lense will get me to 95ft. So I would think the 64mm is not necessary for me. I will have a higher pixel density with the Z4E when I narrow the FOV to the entrance. It would be nice if they made some LPR and ANPR cameras that have 32mm lenses and higher resolutions.
W is wide angle, or minimum zoom. T is telephoto or maximum zoom for that particular camera.
LPR is part art, part science. ANYONE that says 32 mm works to 95 feet is wrong. Just wrong. Some folks get to much longer distances than others. It depends is the correct answer. My LPR struggles at 125' even at slow speeds, compared to what others are getting at 175', even with the same camera. I don't know why. Every setup is different. Yours has good lighting and slow speeds, which works in your favor.
If this is a commercial application, are you looking for a turnkey system, or are you going to add it to an existing BI system?
Flintstone61
Known around here
Nothing works as planned. You can plan and read to eliminate some of the guess work, But until you mount one, and see what it gives you, it's a crapshoot. Plan on an overview cam to coincide with the time stamp of the LPR. The combination is worth more to law enforcement than just a plate.
Flintstone61
Known around here
has the 5241 z12 been superceded by another part #? Amazon says unavailable.
sebastiantombs
Known around here
Check the ships sitting off shore of Southern California. Probably out there.
digiblur
Getting the hang of it
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Adding to what others have said. I had about a 140ft problem to tackle and that nice 64mm varifocal nailed even on cars flying by. See the intro here