sebastiantombs
Known around here
Andy has his ways with shipping, you may be surprised. No guarantee on that though, he may not too.
First Time Cam/Security Install Planning
- Thread starter Ethernaught
- Start date
Yes, I haven't ordered anything in a while and I remember him posting that shipping was going up. I still think shipping won't be unreasonable.
@Ethernaught,
And, if you go through Amazon and buy the Loryta you can get "free" shipping. I think he sells them at a slight discount through the store here, but they don't always stock as many cameras here.
Before buying do your research and get a varifocal camera even if it is a 2MP. It will give you an idea of the zoom level you need at the locations you will be placing these cameras. I have to put mine on soffits and have found that I need them zoomed in more than you can buy with fixed lenses. So any fixed cameras I have are strictly for overview or to direct my PTZ camera.
Here's a good candidate: Ultra Smart 4MP IR Vari-focal Bullet Smart IP Camera ePoE IPC-B5442E-ZE SMD 3.0 - IP Cam Talk Store. Darn good camera for $229...Now I want one.
If you need the turret: 4MP Starlight Ultra Low Light Motorized Varifocal Turret IP Camera IPC-T5442T-ZE - IP Cam Talk Store. And it's a little cheaper at $189.
Ethernaught
Getting the hang of it
Considering the BI hardware wiki points of: Min. recommended CPU mark of 6000, Min. single thread rating of 2000, and the short list of suggested models (of which I only really considered the i5-6600 and up). I want 16gb RAM, and two drive bays would be nice. If if has m.2 for an SSD for the OS and BI (in addition to two full size drive bays) that's nice.
The reolink 8 channel is $300cad regular price. So, I'm fine spending the $350ish I would've spent on that on a BI PC.
I've been making some lists to compare, mostly ebay, options. I've prioritized sells/ships from canada for now.
The cheapest i7-6700 machines I've found are about $325-400 (tax and ship incl.).
There's this i7-7700 too LINK. Would cost about $250ish to door (+drive, and ram if wanted).
I'm not sure how cheap/expensive whatever grade of ram this system setup need is at the moment, but in my mind I'd rather use new ram and storage than whatever refurb stuff these machines come with. Especially considering the video storage drive is gonna need to be a specific type. Is this a concern (the used ram specifically)?
(I bought a Thinkpad W530; i7-3720QM, Quadro K1000M, not too long ago to use while my old MBP was down. It's done good, but I paid more for it than what I'd need to spend on a BI PC. If I were versed in ebay selling, I'd put it up for sale. But this is besides the point.).
The reolink 8 channel is $300cad regular price. So, I'm fine spending the $350ish I would've spent on that on a BI PC.
I've been making some lists to compare, mostly ebay, options. I've prioritized sells/ships from canada for now.
The cheapest i7-6700 machines I've found are about $325-400 (tax and ship incl.).
There's this i7-7700 too LINK. Would cost about $250ish to door (+drive, and ram if wanted).
I'm not sure how cheap/expensive whatever grade of ram this system setup need is at the moment, but in my mind I'd rather use new ram and storage than whatever refurb stuff these machines come with. Especially considering the video storage drive is gonna need to be a specific type. Is this a concern (the used ram specifically)?
(I bought a Thinkpad W530; i7-3720QM, Quadro K1000M, not too long ago to use while my old MBP was down. It's done good, but I paid more for it than what I'd need to spend on a BI PC. If I were versed in ebay selling, I'd put it up for sale. But this is besides the point.).
sebastiantombs
Known around here
Generally speaking, unless the installed RAM is throwing a lot of errors you're fie with whatever comes in the machine. Ram isn't as expensive as it used to be so upgrading to 16 or 32GB might be in your budget.
That i7-7700 looks pretty decent. You will want a surveillance rated drive, Western Digital Purple or Seagate Skyhawk, no matter what one you buy. I'd shoot of 8TB because more is always better and cameras do seem to multiply like rabbits. I started with a 4GB and ran out of room in a rush. Now I've got that 4GB and an 8GB and plan on another 8GB early next year, if not sooner.
That i7-7700 looks pretty decent. You will want a surveillance rated drive, Western Digital Purple or Seagate Skyhawk, no matter what one you buy. I'd shoot of 8TB because more is always better and cameras do seem to multiply like rabbits. I started with a 4GB and ran out of room in a rush. Now I've got that 4GB and an 8GB and plan on another 8GB early next year, if not sooner.
Ethernaught
Getting the hang of it
Am I right in thinking that two drives are better than one? That's what I've gathered from reading some threads involving blue iris hardware.
Some mentioned that it's a (good) strategy or 'practice' to split up the cameras onto different drives, for eg: 4 camera record to one drive, and another 4 to a second drive. Both from a redundancy and 'efficiency'(?) standpoint. Is this correct?
Two 6GB, or one 12GB? Just for example, which would be better? Amazon has some open box wd purples in 4, 6, and 8GB. SkyHawk 6GB also looks like good price relative to other prices per GB. Sounds like you're saying 8GB is a min. size..? Which is fine.
Oh, does the cache size matter? I'm seeing 128MB and 256MB versions within the same drive capacities/models. *Edit: It appears the cache size is maybe tied to the speed, 5640rpm and 7200rpm, respectively? And I've read both speeds suggested...
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Ethernaught
Getting the hang of it
I've heard several similar warnings about dome style cameras. And I keep coming across more posts saying the same. So it's really making me want to avoid that style.
Initially I thought that'd be a good style especially at the front door for visitors/deliveries, and stuff like that. Especially if the camera is to be at ~7' height (vandalism height).
The IPC-HDBW5441F-AS-E2, and the other single cam model, are suggested for front door/porch use. But we have no "porch". There's no "cove" or area that's protected from the elements at all. There's barely any type of "overhang" right above the door (there's a short, maybe 6-10" protrusion, that's all. it does almost nothing). There's really no eave, or anything like that to protect cameras from the weather on the front, nor the back of the house either. The back has decks, but they wouldn't provide that much protection either.
How should this affect my cam style choice?
Can anyone who lives where it snows and rains/freezes comment on how this affects their cams, choice of cams, and any maintenance it calls for?
See this for an idea: IMAGE, IMAGE
Sounds like 'turret' is the best bet anyway.
sebastiantombs
Known around here
We get rain, snow and ice. I've never had a problem, other than snow accumulation when the wind is blowing the right (wrong?) way and that melts off pretty quickly because the cameras run warm. Temperature ranges from ~105F to -10F here. I have a total of three bullets, for specific spots, and at least a dozen turrets.
In terms of "vandal proof" or "vandalism" no camera is immune to that at all. Enough force on a dome camera will take the dome off. Enough force on a bullet will snap the mount. Probably the most vandal resistant is the turret because the whole thing is a bunch of round surfaces making it harder to grab and yank or even to deliver a heavy direct blow. Any of them can be easily defeated with a simple can of spray paint or a flashlight at night. That's why I always install cameras so that one camera "watches" another.
In terms of "vandal proof" or "vandalism" no camera is immune to that at all. Enough force on a dome camera will take the dome off. Enough force on a bullet will snap the mount. Probably the most vandal resistant is the turret because the whole thing is a bunch of round surfaces making it harder to grab and yank or even to deliver a heavy direct blow. Any of them can be easily defeated with a simple can of spray paint or a flashlight at night. That's why I always install cameras so that one camera "watches" another.
Ethernaught
Getting the hang of it
What is a good resource (video, website) for learning about actual alarm (intruder) systems? I looked up "alarm grid" after reading it here, and found a video of their on what is an alarm system. I'd like to find more like this, and get an idea of how one would actually install the components, and of course, where to get them (self monitored, self installed/diy-able setups).
Ethernaught
Getting the hang of it
I'm tyring to wait until I have the funds to get at least enough (equipment) to have something I can test out/play with right away.
pc ~$300 +/-.
HDD ~$300+ (8gb)
Emp.Tech 5442 Varifocal ~$300
POW switch ~$60-80
About $1000 for just that...? Anyways, I didn't include crimp tool and cable because I have a 50 or 100 foot premade one I could do some testing with. I also didn't include any JBs or any other (probably necessary to final installation) parts.
Also, another reason why I'm wondering about the other half of the equation; diy intrusion alarms. 1) if I could cover our houses entry points with sensors/alarm system for less, I thought I might start with that. And 1)b - Winter will be here soon and the cameras will be more difficult to do then (difficult, not impossible, obviously).
pc ~$300 +/-.
HDD ~$300+ (8gb)
Emp.Tech 5442 Varifocal ~$300
POW switch ~$60-80
About $1000 for just that...? Anyways, I didn't include crimp tool and cable because I have a 50 or 100 foot premade one I could do some testing with. I also didn't include any JBs or any other (probably necessary to final installation) parts.
Also, another reason why I'm wondering about the other half of the equation; diy intrusion alarms. 1) if I could cover our houses entry points with sensors/alarm system for less, I thought I might start with that. And 1)b - Winter will be here soon and the cameras will be more difficult to do then (difficult, not impossible, obviously).
Ethernaught
Getting the hang of it
That all depends on your cameras. The total budget on all 8 ports is 65 watts for the one you linked to. I'd have to look at the numbers on whether that's cutting it close if these cameras have infrared. If you want to be on the safe side get one with a larger total amount allowed. This one IPCamPower POE Switch (4, 8, 16 & 24-port) - IP Cam Talk Store for the 8 port version allows a total budget of 130 Watts. That should be sufficient even if you are running all 8 as PTZs with IR (which nobody does).
And, I'll just say that if you think you are going to want 8 cameras, get a POE with 12 or 16 ports. If you plan to have 8 cameras, you'll find that you'll actually need (or want) more...That's what I came to, and it's a common theme around here.
Flintstone61
Known around here
Flintstone61
Known around here
But yes you can certainly get that one......and if you expand you could just link it to a gigabit switch with the uplink port.
Flintstone61
Known around here
I went Bonzo and got a 24 port Cisco for the Condo.....but now I wish i woulda went 48.
Ethernaught
Getting the hang of it
Thanks. I was about to order it.
I think I found your suggestion on the amazons now. So... 16watts per cam/line, is that what you're saying is a safe estimate?
Thanks for the canadian amazon link, hah. The model you linked says 13 port w/ 8 port poe+, but the images all show only 8 ports (and two uplink ports, with a third uplink port that looks different).
As for camera numbers, 8 is the most I think I'd need for this property, and is also enough to equate to more money than I could/would want to spend on cam for quite a while. If I needed more, wouldn't it be very easy to just upgrade to a new POE switch with more ports?
One might not actually buy 8 of the 5442T-ZE - I understand, but if one did, that's 2400CAD in cameras alone. Yikes. (I duno if that even sounds like alot to this crowd/forum, haha).
Thanks for the guidance.
Flintstone61
Known around here
I went Bonzo and got a 24 port Cisco for the Condo.....but now I wish i woulda went 48.
Ethernaught
Getting the hang of it
You have 24 cameras in your condo/apartment!? What?
Flintstone61
Known around here
I manage a 74 unit condo
Ethernaught
Getting the hang of it
Oh! Ok. Hahaha.
Flintstone61
Known around here
At home I just have a Yuanley 5 port Poe switch and a Poe NVR and a TP link 5 port gigabit