Gonna need a little help...

[bigredfish]

So for a variety of reasons Im going to have to go to self hosting our HOA cameras soon. The cloud service we have been using is good, EagleEye, but the local contractor support isnt. I'm at wits end and want to go ahead and install a couple of NVR's and host locally.

Sooooo.. my experience is with home systems, HDCVI, and am comfortable once hooked up how to get good images out of IP cams and managing them, but I'm looking for pointers on hooking things up as some of you know I'm a semi-IP networking idiot..

So what I have:

• Two poles, one at each end of the street, one with 3 cameras and one with 2. 1500 ft apart - no direct LoS
• 2 Axis dedicated LPR cameras and one Dahua 52A1EN at entrance. All 2MP
• 1 Axis dedicated LPR cam and 1 Dahua 8131 Starlight at culdesac
  
• There will never be more than 4 cameras per pole, likely wont add any at all, but will upgrade in time
  
• I have a separate high speed business dedicated IP connection at each location through Spectrum Cable
  
• I have a nice weatherproof box where everything terminates about 20 ft from each pole
  
• I think I want to install a NVR5208-8P-4KS2 at each location (looks to fit easily)
• I think I want the one with POE as I wont need to run anything off an external POE switch?
  
• I think I'll need a router that I can use OpenVPN with at each location (Netgear Nighthawk?) I'm Assuming that the cable provider simply terminates at a modem and I take that into my router like I do at home..

So some things I have questions on:

1. Anyone have a better idea on the NVR's? I would rather have overkill than scrimp
2. If I use POE NVR, will I access the cameras same way I do via my home DVR in that the NVR will be where all controls happen? or will each IP cam still have its own address I can also access direct? In other words is their a downside or upside to using the POE NVR?
3. How do I manage accessing the different devices using OpenVPN on my iphone/laptop remotely? In other words do I see a separate profile I assume for my own home network, and each of the two HOA "networks" based on generated/installed separate credentials for each? I think so
4. I'll use SmartPSS to monitor cameras alng with the iDMSS app on smart phone. Wont be sending email alerts, but wiull be recording using MD and IVS. When i need to tweek settings, I'll go right into the NVR interface which I'm already comfortable with.
5. OK so WEATHER. Its hot in FL, but as a reference, for two years those same boxes have housed a cable modem, router and EagleEye bridge device with a small HD for buffering with no ill effects
   
6. What am I missing?

This will be something I hope to do over the next 2-3 week while I have some vacation time. So just getting things lined up and wanting to order equipment from Andy very quickly.

Thanks in advance for any pointers

 

[mat200]

Hi Bigredfish,

The biggest concern I have is the heat and humidity in the box which is to house the NVR and the rest of the kit. Do you have any historical temp and humidity data from within those enclosures from the current equipment installed?

 

[looney2ns]

Pic of said boxes would help.

Yes, the downside to a POE NVR is that it makes each individual cam hard to access.
You could always gut the NVR's, and just mount them without the case inside the boxes.
This would reduce the heat load a little on the NVR contents.
There are ways to ventilate the boxes, if need be.
Painted white on the outside can help a lot.
But, modems run HOT, so if they've survived for 2 years, then you may be ok.

3-Yes, you would just have a different profile to select to connect to each VPN router.

 

[fenderman]

You dont need nvr's at each location...pop an sd card into the cams, then stream the cams to a dedicated NVR at a single location....these are dedicated lines so who cares...

 

[bigredfish]

You dont need nvr's at each location...pop an sd card into the cams, then stream the cams to a dedicated NVR at a single location....these are dedicated lines so who cares...

Hmmmmmm ...hadnt thought about that...

 

[bigredfish]

I'll get pics of the boxes and whats inside in the morning..

 

[mat200]

Hmmmmmm ...hadnt thought about that...

So maybe install 128GB microSD cards into each camera, small PoE switch, use VPN and internet connectivity to make a WAN and record to a central NVR / BI system.

 

[bigredfish]

So after some more thought and not comfortable with the bandwidth to stream both poles to a common NVR for a variety of reasons, I'm ready to proceed and order equipment for the self-hosting dual NVR's.

For the NVR's I'm thinking this NVR4204 as opposed to the NVR5208 which is overkill with just 3 cameras per pole.
NVR4204-P-4KS2 | Dahua Technology - Dahua Technology
This would allow upgrading to 4K cams if we wanted to, and with 200MB of incoming, I dont see how we could max it out

As mentioned, the cable model is in the box (see attached pics) along with a Dlink switch that I would replace with a Netgear N750 router
https://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-Wi-F...id=1513549931&sr=8-3&keywords=netgear+routers


So does anyone see a problem with the equipment above?

 

[mat200]

Hi Bigredfish,

I recall reading something about firmware updates on NVR42xx models removing some IVS functionality - as I am not 100% certain of this, you may want to double check this.

 

[bigredfish]

Thanks Matt, I see that and some other things that are troubling. I suppose I should stick to the 52xx series.

Now I'm re-thinking the POE NVR - having a CVI DVR I love the simplicity. Camera specific control access is through a simple OSD menu even though the setting options are extensive and rival that of an IP cam.

It seems the POE NVR presents a problem of remotely connecting directly to the cameras web GUI? I see some posts that there is new firmware that may allow direct connection to the camera web gui from the NVR but info seems limited... Soooooooo, I suppose I go back to the
NVR5208-4KS2 and use a POE switch which will allow me easy remote access to both the NVR AND cameras?

 

[mat200]

Thanks Matt, I see that and some other things that are troubling. I suppose I should stick to the 52xx series.

Now I'm re-thinking the POE NVR - having a CVI DVR I love the simplicity. Camera specific control access is through a simple OSD menu even though the setting options are extensive and rival that of an IP cam.

It seems the POE NVR presents a problem of remotely connecting directly to the cameras web GUI? I see some posts that there is new firmware that may allow direct connection to the camera web gui from the NVR but info seems limited... Soooooooo, I suppose I go back to the
NVR5208-4KS2 and use a POE switch which will allow me easy remote access to both the NVR AND cameras?

Hi Bigredfish,

If you can have a small PoE switch in each "utility box" by the pole and run the data cable to a central spot - then it seems using a central better NVR or VMS like Blue Iris would be a good option imho.

That's the thing about IP - numerous options, both for the good and the "holy smokes" more to learn...

 

[bigredfish]

Unfortunately the poles are 1500ft apart and I cant lay cable to a central point, and streaming to a central point has its own set of problems.. Definitely resigned to dual NVR's.

At this point I just need to learn whether I can access camera web gui directly using a POE NVR or if I must go non-POE NVR and POE switch. I need to be able to remotely access both the cams and the NVR. Prefer the POE NVR if I can do this.

I saw a post by @Crazykiller that showed promise accessing both cams and NVR web gui's without having to connect a computer to the POE switch
https://ipcamtalk.com/attachments/19429/
Dahua NVR5216-4KS2 / NVR5216-16P-4KS2

 

[Crazykiller]

Unfortunately the poles are 1500ft apart and I cant lay cable to a central point, and streaming to a central point has its own set of problems.. Definitely resigned to dual NVR's.

At this point I just need to learn whether I can access camera web gui directly using a POE NVR or if I must go non-POE NVR and POE switch. I need to be able to remotely access both the cams and the NVR. Prefer the POE NVR if I can do this.

I saw a post by @Crazykiller that showed promise accessing both cams and NVR web gui's without having to connect a computer to the POE switch
https://ipcamtalk.com/attachments/19429/
Dahua NVR5216-4KS2 / NVR5216-16P-4KS2

Yep, right. With actual NVR firmware it’s possible to access the cams WebGUI, while the cam is connected to the NVR´s PoE ports. But you won’t be able to access the cams WebGUI directly. You’ll always have to hop through the NVR‘s WebGUI as the ports are assigned dynamically to the cams.

 

[bigredfish]

Thanks! That's huge in being able to manage the cams and the NVR remotely.

 

[Kawboy12R]

Dumb CVI question here @bigredfish - how tunable are HD-CVI cams? I've never used any and have been curious about whether or not they can be tuned for things like exposure time, gain, zoom if applicable, etc remotely. Like at least from the NVR end. IP cams are a million years more advanced than the old analog cams that basically did everything at the cam via dip switches.

 

[bigredfish]

Not a dumb question at all Kawboy. The CVI stuff has come along way in just the few years I've been dabbling in the hobby. Light years compared to old analog I first installed in 2012.

I'll get you some better insight/screen shots tonight when I get home from #dayjob, but probably the biggest downside issue is generally the lack of being able to set completely different profiles for day/night with regards to manual exposure settings. However you are able to effectively compensate with some models...for instance the 3231E-Z is smart enough to automatically turn off WDR in IR mode and thus allow different master exposure settings.

Most of the normal features you see on the avg IP cam are now present in CVI cams, just pop into the DVR web gui, open a camera view, and popup the OSD menu for each cam.
Exposure, gain, shutter, normal image settings, WB, IR settings, WDR/BKL/HLC, 2D/3DNr etc, Alarm in/out, audio settings

Resolution, compression, bitrate/FPS/iframe - type settings are done at the DVR by camera channel, both main/substream, almost identical to IP cams.
MD can be done at the DVR and/or the Camera as with privacy mask, settings/notifications same as IP cams
IVS features are standard now but controlled at the DVR (there is a limit to how many cams can utilize IVS by DVR model)
Motorized lens/auto focus on many VF camera models
Push and email notifications through iDmss/gDmss app, ability to manage via SmartPSS
PTZ controls primarily at the DVR

Master settings for Alarm, Account, Event, Network, Storage/RecordingSchedule/HD management, System stuff, all mostly all done at the DVR of course.

 

[mat200]

Not a dumb question at all Kawboy. The CVI stuff has come along way in just the few years I've been dabbling in the hobby. Light years compared to old analog I first installed in 2012.

I'll get you some better insight/screen shots tonight when I get home from #dayjob, but probably the biggest downside issue is generally the lack of being able to set completely different profiles for day/night with regards to manual exposure settings. However you are able to effectively compensate with some models...for instance the 3231E-Z is smart enough to automatically turn off WDR in IR mode and thus allow different master exposure settings.

Most of the normal features you see on the avg IP cam are now present in CVI cams, just pop into the DVR web gui, open a camera view, and popup the OSD menu for each cam.
Exposure, gain, shutter, normal image settings, WB, IR settings, WDR/BKL/HLC, 2D/3DNr etc, Alarm in/out, audio settings

Resolution, compression, bitrate/FPS/iframe - type settings are done at the DVR by camera channel, both main/substream, almost identical to IP cams.
MD can be done at the DVR and/or the Camera as with privacy mask, settings/notifications same as IP cams
IVS features are standard now but controlled at the DVR (there is a limit to how many cams can utilize IVS by DVR model)
Motorized lens/auto focus on many VF camera models
Push and email notifications through iDmss/gDmss app, ability to manage via SmartPSS
PTZ controls primarily at the DVR

Master settings for Alarm, Account, Event, Network, Storage/RecordingSchedule/HD management, System stuff, all mostly all done at the DVR of course.

Hi Bigredfish,

Sounds like this would require the cameras to now have the processing power, and the DVR needs to be able to communicate with the cameras.

Is there a digital signal now on the coax line? ( I recall the older setups where the DVR basically had all the smarts )

 

[bigredfish]

I do think the cameras are far "smarter" now than they were 5 years ago, and yes they must have greater processing power. Dont get me to lying as to how they do it though, like making my sausage, I don't really know how they do it and probably dont want to

There are some limited interactions/communication clearly between camera and DVR/XVR, and dont forget the HCVR and XVR series now can also run regular IP cameras exactly like an NVR. The ability to run both I think is helpful in residential/small commercial market.

That said, I AM trying to keep up with the cool kids and thus my all-IP based project for the HOA which I'm trying to sort out.

 

[bigredfish]

Some screencaps to show that while the old school OSD menu is still there, the functionality/flexibility is way beyond what old analog used to be.

 

[bigredfish]