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Hello from coastal Georgia. Please help me secure a large motel property.

troybarnes

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Greetings, IPCamTalk. I'm doing a camera system for the first time and it's a large area so I need help coming up with a layout and then picking a specific system to buy. I do have experience installing the wifi network myself, for which I use Ubiquiti's Unifi system, but the camera system does NOT have to be from Ubiquiti. In fact, it's probably best that it's not.

Must haves
1. IP camera system with NVR. After that, all camera types and specs are on the table. I'd like to keep it to 16 channels though.
2. Mic'd camera in the office and at the night window outside. Ideally for the canopy too.
3. Budget as high as $1800, but $1000-1500 is best. Not including extra cable and switches I'll surely need.
4. Night vision. The pathway outside the rooms and the parking lot are well lit.

The property


Notes
- To keep it simple, I only need to surveil the paved area from the office (bottom left of the building) and above. Nothing behind the motel. Not necessarily the lawn. And not the two driveways all the way down to the road either.
- Left to right, the long side of the courtyard measures ~280ft. From the office to the top left corner is ~150 ft
- Wiring will be run through the attic above the rooms. There are attic access ladders behind the office and at each of the two corner storage rooms.
- While I don't want to go through the trouble of setting up dedicated cameras for LPR, I *would* like to position them so that I can piece together a plate through triangulation if need be.
- The NVR setup will have to be in the storage room behind the office so we can have a monitor there also. Keep this in mind when it comes to cable runs and switches.

I would greatly appreciate specific suggestions on system layout and camera type/amount/specs/brand.

Thank you!

Other pics






Fyi, here's the wifi network layout to give an idea.

 
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mat200

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Welcome @troybarnes

Looks like a fun project.

What do you see as your greatest threats / risks which you feel security cameras will help you manage better?
 

SouthernYankee

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Mount multiple cameras in and near the office. Mount the cameras low to get the face.

Cameras on each floor looking down the walk way. Each walk way should be covered by two cameras one from the left one from the right.
 

Q™

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Do you have a choke point where you can capture plates, make, model of all vehicles entering the property?
 

troybarnes

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Welcome @troybarnes

Looks like a fun project.

What do you see as your greatest threats / risks which you feel security cameras will help you manage better?
The property presents very little security risks with it being a courtyard motel and clear visibility of the whole property from the office (except behind, which is fenced on the left side and the back side nothing to worry about). There has never been a major issue in our 18 years here. We don't have a rough clientele.

The office is the biggest risk because it is not always occupied by an employee. The office also has big windows for walls all around the 3 exposed sides, so they can theoretically be broken easily. Basically if someone wanted to rob the place they could do it easily as things stand.

But overall, this is mostly for peace of mind and to aid in capturing something that *could* happen.
 

troybarnes

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Do you have a choke point where you can capture plates, make, model of all vehicles entering the property?
Yes and no. Cars usually pull in under the canopy in front of the office. A camera could be placed at the edge of the overhang to grab plates. BUT, cars also just as often stop beside the canopy or go to one of the parking spots beside the metal roofed carport. So it's not quite simple. The best spot I can think of is the top right corner of the canopy. This would get each car as it moves into the parking lot, but they would all be moving shots.

Then there's the other driveway...
Like what if a visitor who didn't need to stop at the office only ever uses that other driveway? So that would necessitate a bullet pointing directly down that driveway.
Cars also exit from the main driveway. So really both driveways need a bullet pointing toward the exits.

How about something like this? The arrows are bullets, the circles are domes.

 

Q™

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Why are you using bullets outside. Bullets attract spider and webs which are a nuisance?
 

Q™

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I would put camera on 6-inch steel posts (set in concrete) at each ingress/egress point (see the "X" marks below) and also a camera on the back-side of the motel to cover someone who parks on the shoulder of the adjacent road...

layout.jpg
 
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troybarnes

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I would put camera on 6-inch steel posts (set in concrete) at each ingress/egress point (see the "X" marks below) and also a camera on the back-side of the motel to cover someone who parks on the shoulder of the adjacent road...

View attachment 36394
Cameras at the ground level basically? That sounds ripe for getting running over. And I would need wifi for anything like that and I don't want to use wifi.

Also why not bullets? Bugs and webs haven't been a problem for the LED wall sconces.
 
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awsum140

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LED wall sconces don't have eyes. When you look at the sconces you're looking at the light and can't see the webs versus the camera looking "away" from the light. Bullets using IR, and that is key since bugs/spiders see IR far better than we do, attract spiders and bugs. Period, end of story. I have a bullet still in use and it was "warm" here yesterday, say the upper 50's. Had a spider web on that camera after days of nothing since the temps had been 40 or below for a week. Keep in mind the webs end up in front of the lens and the IR source which makes them VERY visible in the frame since they reflect IR so well. Turrets, not domes, is the only way to go. The plastic used for domes can easily cause IR reflections and has a tendency to "fog" over time.

Reading license plates, especially at night, takes a dedicated camera configured specifically for that purpose. You're not going to do it with a camera configured for "normal" situations like facial identification. If the camera is mounted on a six inch diameter steel pipe set in concrete off to the side of the driveways, it won't get hit very easily unless it's deliberate and will damage whatever hits it fairly badly. A trench and conduit is how to get wire to them. Even a WiFi camera needs power which means wire. Mounting at ground level, not really, but no higher than six to eight feet.
 

TonyR

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One more item to add to your ever-growing list (sorry):

Having been born & raised in GA (and now living next door in AL) I am very aware of the damage to computers, TV's, network cameras, etc. (basically all electronics) that can be attributed to severe lightning in the southeast.

Being out in the open and under a bunch of tall pine trees as it appears you are, I think you may be particularly vulnerable. I highly recommend surge protection at strategic points in your wired network such as coming into building and between switch(es) and cameras.

There's not a lot can be done to protect against a direct hit but perhaps the devices, if properly installed, can minimize and contain the damage from induced ESD due to a nearby strike (the top of one of those pines). I think that would be the greatest likelihood....nearby and induced.

L-com supplies some of the best outdoor-rated lightning protection products for POE/Ethernet, incoming DSL or cable from your ISP, etc.
 

Q™

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Cameras at the ground level basically? That sounds ripe for getting running over.
As @awsum140 wrote, on 6 or 8-inch steel pipe set in concrete the vehicle would sustain significant damage. Fill the pipe with concrete and it might go unscathed considering that the vehicle most likely would be moving rather slow. I was thinking the cameras might be mounted 5-feet high on the pipe which would give an excellent view of the license plate, make/model, and perhaps even the occupants (sans window tint).
 

Q™

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Also why not bullets? Bugs and webs haven't been a problem for the LED wall sconces.
You will regret installing bullets outside and -- as also previously mentioned -- outside domes are susceptible to IR reflection issues. Use turrets outside.
 

Q™

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One more item to add to your ever-growing list (sorry)
Doing it "right" has a great reward: the excellent video record you need. Doing it "wrong" (like most people do it) results in video which fails to provide even the basic adequate record which is needed. Most people choose to do it "the wrong way" due to ignorance/lack of knowledge, budgetary restraints, or simple foolish obstinance.
 

troybarnes

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One more item to add to your ever-growing list (sorry):

Having been born & raised in GA (and now living next door in AL) I am very aware of the damage to computers, TV's, network cameras, etc. (basically all electronics) that can be attributed to severe lightning in the southeast.

Being out in the open and under a bunch of tall pine trees as it appears you are, I think you may be particularly vulnerable. I highly recommend surge protection at strategic points in your wired network such as coming into building and between switch(es) and cameras.

There's not a lot can be done to protect against a direct hit but perhaps the devices, if properly installed, can minimize and contain the damage from induced ESD due to a nearby strike (the top of one of those pines). I think that would be the greatest likelihood....nearby and induced.

L-com supplies some of the best outdoor-rated lightning protection products for POE/Ethernet, incoming DSL or cable from your ISP, etc.
I can confirm this. The power grid will 'flicker' from mere light wind. And I've lost my share of equipment from lightning.
 

troybarnes

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So turrets it is then. Here's a set I found for a good price after the 15% off. Montavue 16 Channel Security System with Audio Recording 4K NVR w/ 12 4MP Turret IP Cameras with Built-in Audio Mic, 3TB HDD, 130ft Color Night Optics – MTIP816312T | Montavue

I still don't understand the point of the steels posts when I have the building eaves to mount cameras on. Here are some better pics that show where they would go.

Canopy and office behind. Note the eaves.


Instead of steel posts on the lawn, why not just put a turret on this corner pointing to the parking lot? It would record all cars into the property, either through the canopy or the lane beside it.


Here's the corner where the night window is


And this is what the walkways are like. I would put the turrets on the outer edge of the eaves.


Thought?
 

awsum140

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Going back to the post mounts, I had a friend who lived on a curve. His mailbox kept getting hit, regularly, and usually on a Saturday night. This was back in the 70s, long before cameras were affordable for home use. To cure the problem we replaced the 4x4 wood post with a 4x4 1/4" walled steel post painted a light brown. It went over four feet into the ground and was set in a hole about 10" in diameter and filled with concrete and we filled the post itself and added some rebar as well. The next Saturday night my friend was woken by a loud crash at about 4AM as the same kid had his "fun". Unfortunately for the prankster the post penetrated about a foot and a half into the right front quarter of the car, bent the wishbones and frame. He just put another mailbox back up on that post. It's never been hit again and still stands today, say 50 years later.

Check with Andy, email listed in the Cliff Notes instead of that package system. And again, don't fall into the megapixel trap. Saving money on a "system" that doesn't work out is wasted money in the end making it way more expensive.
 
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troybarnes

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What specifically about that set isn't right for me? I've read the Cliff Notes and I don't think I'm violating any of the considerations/recommendations in it.

I've looked at the Dahua turrets on page 15 of the Cliff Notes. It seems I need to build a system of fixed and varifocal lens PoE turrets, with varifocals going where necessary.
 
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mat200

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What specifically about that set isn't right for me? I've read the Cliff Notes and I don't think I'm violating any of the considerations/recommendations in it.
Hi Troy, ( @troybarnes )

Montavue carries Dahua OEM products, so they have good cameras in general, and that is good. ( their products retain the IVS features )

Most of the members here are currently very familiar with the Dahua OEM international models - and thus there's a bit of model number familiarity they have with the Dahua OEM international model numbers. With a little effort you should fairly easily be able to map any Montavue IP POE camera with it's Dahua OEM international model equivalent.

Note in particular the Dahua OEM 4MP cameras did not impress members here compared to other options. While I am uncertain which exact model those 4MP turrets map to, you should be able to find out with a bit more inspection into the specs on those cameras as well as the Dahua international website.

I would recommend looking closely at the reviews posted by members, you maybe able to find a review on a very similar model or even the Dahua OEM international model equivalent.

Once you are able to do that you can better evaluate your options.

For example, the Montavue MTB8110 8MP 30 fps bullet iirc maps to the IPC-HFW1831E model.

A search on IPCT shows a review here
(8MP) IPC-HFW1831E Review

There is also a dome version of that ( we're still hoping to see a turret version ) also - which would be IPC-HDBW1831x ( Montavue's model would be MTD8110 iirc )

You can see some of the newer Dahua OEM international models listed here:
https://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/allProducts/1/5337
 
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