Lol unfortunately the owner has had ADT in his previous properties and some businesses for many years and he's happy with them so its most likely getting ADT. I'll see if I can get Brinks...unless anyone knows of a better company that services metro detroit area.
Help with an install.
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tangent
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Brinks was worse than ADT
but was acquired by ADT.The company that installs the alarm system doesn't have to be the company that monitors it. Beyond the choice of who installs / monitors it, is the choice of the actual equipment if you call up ADT you generally aren't going to get (m)any choices. For a large house like this, potential home automation integration would be a big consideration. On the hardware side a higher end alarm panel (like Elk or HAI) may make sense for this house. DSC isn't high end, but does integrate well with Control 4.
Put another way, one of the choices is whether the alarm keypad is capable of controlling other devices in the house or if you have touchscreens for the ha system and whether or not they can interact with the alarm system.
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looney2ns
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And not your fault, but all of this really should have been decided looong before the house got to this stage.
So actually I am the AV guy and am doing most of the structured wiring in this house. I even told the ADT guy that I can wire all of their stuff, too, and he seemed on board. They apparently just came out with their latest system, the Command line. It has a really nice touch screen control panel and all of their sensors are z-wave. This system is basically a ha hub. I will be using smartthings, actiontiles and KonnectedBrinks is worse than ADT
The company that installs the alarm system doesn't have to be the company that monitors it. Beyond the choice of who installs / monitors it, is the choice of the actual equipment if you call up ADT you generally aren't going to get (m)any choices. For a large house like this, potential home automation integration would be a big consideration. On the hardware side a higher end alarm panel (like Elk or HAI) may make sense for this house. DSC isn't high end, but does integrate well with Control 4.
Put another way, one of the choices is whether the alarm keypad is capable of controlling other devices in the house or if you have touchscreens for the ha system and whether or not they can interact with the alarm system.
That's not true because I just got a quote for a complete hardwired system. But come to think of it, not sure why he kept saying the sensors are z-wave since that's a wireless technology. I'll confirm with him about the wired portion; maybe it's a hybrid sensor?
We have z-wave motion detectors and door & window sensors. Having said that, hardwired is the better way to go - more reliable and faster trip response.
We have integrated our alarm system with our HA system (HomeSeer).
We have integrated our alarm system with our HA system (HomeSeer).
tangent
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If the sensors are zwave they are wireless. Get some bids for an alarm prewire for new construction from several other companies.
These all-in-one touchscreen alarm systems typically have no or very limited support for hardwired zones. In some cases there may be devices that can connect wired sensors and convert them to wireless, but that kind of undermines the point of going hard wired in the first place. This approach beats taping a pack of cigarettes to every door and window but not by much.
This is a large house. To cover it properly will require quite a few zones and likely require a zone expander or three. It would also make sense to have multiple keypads in a house this size.
When it comes to quotes / estimates from Always Dumb Troglodytes make sure they're specific and include model numbers, location of all sensors and keypads, and stipulate in detail not doing some of the idiocy they're best know for. Who am I kidding, you probably wouldn't know the difference.
tangent
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Konnected is one of the dumbest Io(shi)T products on the market. It has no place in a house like this and and wouldn't even work with the things you're talking about. WTF are you smoking? Bringing it up like this just goes to show that you have absolutely no fucking idea what you're doing.
On wired/wireless one other thing to be aware of is that wireless motion sensors typically only transmit once every 5-10 minutes. Meaning, as a sensor for home automation it's harder to tell if a room continues to be occupied.
The simplest system to integrate with smartthings is probably a DSC PC1864 or Honeywell Vista 20P with a third party EVL-4 interface. Stipulate or supply FULL ENGLISH / MESSAGE keypads that can actually display words like "Front Door". The newer DSC Power Series Neo is hard to integrate with smart things (not sure if it's possible), but easy with Control4. Interlogix panels can also be made to work with ST, but it's a little messier. Honeywell/Resideo is supposed to release a new hardwired model soon.
Do you even know how to terminate the Cat-7 cable you touted in the first post? Have you ever even used a t e s t e r that can actually TDR the the cable and see if your Cat-7 termination is adequate? A tester with blinking lights that checks continuity doesn't get the job done. The utility of running Cat-7 is questionable over running some unterminated fiber for future use. Do you have any experience at all with any of this stuff?
To be frank, if I could find the homeowner, at this point, I'd probably call them up and let them know that while you may have been the lowest bidder they are getting absolutely screwed by someone who's clueless.
P.S. We'll still offer advice if you listen, but expect a dose of don't rip off your customer thrown in. I'm pretty confident the timeline for the construction doesn't allow you enough time to actually learn to do all of this right.
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The home owner claims to be tech savvy enough to recommend most of the things I'm putting in. I told him cat6 or even a quality cat5e would be sufficient for his needs but he just wanted cat7. I also recommended running unterminated fiber but it was too expensive for him and unnecessary at this point so I suggested I would install empty conduit to fish later on. I'm aware of cat7 termination and testers. We dont see this area getting fiber/gigabit internet anytime soon so I'll be putting rj45. I got the cat7 from Mediabridge who say their cable is just a cat6a with extra shielding. They also sell their own "cat7" rj45 connectors which terminate fine on their cables. The house will have a professional security system installed and monitored. The konnected is merely to give the home owner the limited ability to monitor their sensors in the same interface as the rest of the ha products. Maybe you're unaware of the other konnected device that actually connects parallel to the working security system instead of replacing it (like with their main product). Yes I dont have a lot of experience with some components of this install such as choosing a better security system but again as I mentioned before, the home owner insisted on getting ADT because he currently has it in his house and businesses and is happy with it.
Luckily, arrogance and foul language doesn't deter me from learning; I don't care for either. But thank you for the advice
Luckily, arrogance and foul language doesn't deter me from learning; I don't care for either. But thank you for the advice
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Lol, yup got all the product info and went over all details of the location of all the proposed sensors. They said their new command system is nothing like their previous systems of the past. If you have experience with it, by all means, please give your input. They assured their hardwired sensors works just fine with the new system.If the sensors are zwave they are wireless. Get some bids for an alarm prewire for new construction from several other companies.
These all-in-one touchscreen alarm systems typically have no or very limited support for hardwired zones. In some cases there may be devices that can connect wired sensors and convert them to wireless, but that kind of undermines the point of going hard wired in the first place. This approach beats taping a pack of cigarettes to every door and window but not by much.
This is a large house. To cover it properly will require quite a few zones and likely require a zone expander or three. It would also make sense to have multiple keypads in a house this size.
When it comes to quotes / estimates from Always Dumb Troglodytes make sure they're specific and include model numbers, location of all sensors and keypads, and stipulate in detail not doing some of the idiocy they're best know for. Who am I kidding, you probably wouldn't know the difference.
Seriously guys, if you're here just to criticize me instead of offering good advice, then please go waste someone else's time because clearly you have a lot of it! I came here to learn about camera systems because I dont have much experience with them. Im not sure how wondering what I was smoking before choosing to use Konnected helps me with my cameras. Im also not sure how this makes you a helpful person on this post. Maybe it helps you sleep better at night telling people they're idiots but please, go drink some NyQuil instead.
Thank you for reminding me why I stopped participating in forums after high school. Some people on forums never grow up and are stuck being that arrogant hillbilly teen who sounds like hes still sitting in his mom's basement swearing at his screen. Seriously man be a little professional, learn a little courtesy, and grow up!
Thank you for reminding me why I stopped participating in forums after high school. Some people on forums never grow up and are stuck being that arrogant hillbilly teen who sounds like hes still sitting in his mom's basement swearing at his screen. Seriously man be a little professional, learn a little courtesy, and grow up!
tangent
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I'll admit the homeowner specifying that combination of devices isn't something I thought of. However, part of your job and reputation depends on convincing your customers to make the best choices possible. In the same way, some important info was missing from this thread. I have a pretty low opinion of both ADT and Konnected and I'm sorry if you took that personally.The home owner claims to be tech savvy enough to recommend most of the things I'm putting in. I told him cat6 or even a quality cat5e would be sufficient for his needs but he just wanted cat7. I also recommended running unterminated fiber but it was too expensive for him and unnecessary at this point so I suggested I would install empty conduit to fish later on. I'm aware of cat7 termination and testers. We dont see this area getting fiber/gigabit internet anytime soon so I'll be putting rj45. I got the cat7 from Mediabridge who say their cable is just a cat6a with extra shielding. They also sell their own "cat7" rj45 connectors which terminate fine on their cables. The house will have a professional security system installed and monitored. The konnected is merely to give the home owner the limited ability to monitor their sensors in the same interface as the rest of the ha products. Maybe you're unaware of the other konnected device that actually connects parallel to the working security system instead of replacing it (like with their main product). Yes I dont have a lot of experience with some components of this install such as choosing a better security system but again as I mentioned before, the home owner insisted on getting ADT because he currently has it in his house and businesses and is happy with it.
Luckily, arrogance and foul language doesn't deter me from learning; I don't care for either. But thank you for the advice
If it wasn't clear, I wasn't calling out your lack of experience with some of this stuff to make you feel bad. I wanted you to realize you have more to learn than you have time to learn and that you might even need in person help from a friend in the industry or need to subcontract some of it. Admittedly the thought of someone who doesn't know what they're doing f'ing up a nice house like that made me a bit angry.
I understand exactly what Konnected is, how it works, and what it's made from. The only place it belongs is a trash can. Full Stop.
Konnected will not do anything useful in your install and will not work "in parallel" with anything. Watch the installation video on their website, they completely disconnect the zones from the real alarm panel and hook them to the middle school electronics project that is konnected. Beyond that each overpriced konnected board can only can only connect to 6 zones.
The EVL-4 on the other hand interfaces directly with Honeywell and DSC alarm panels and has an API that's well supported to interface with home automation. It connects to the alarm's data bus and provides information about the state of the system and everything connected to it. Honeywell and DSC both have touchscreens, but they aren't necessary.
The Interlogix UltraSync Modular Hub could also be a nice panel with the 7" touchscreen keypad. The 7" UltraSync keypad can display security cameras, but that might only work with interlogix cameras.
ADT has worked pretty hard to earn their bad reputation. That said, I know there's a lot of variation and there are some ADT installers who do good work even if the monitoring is overpriced. When it comes to home automation, ADT has come up with some awful ways to nickel and dime their pulse customers.
When I first searched for the ADT Command system you mentioned I didn't get many results. There isn't a lot of info out there and it wasn't clear that there was a hybrid version of the panel that works with hardwired sensors. I searched a little more and it looks like the ADT command system is an ADT branded version of the new Resideo/Honeywell alarm system I suggested above. The official launch was supposed to be 2 weeks ago, so info is still pretty sparse. This would be a good alarm system for this house, but I'd prefer the non-adt version of the panel once it launches (unknown what sort of changes / feature crippling may be present in ADT version).
It's a little ironic that they're using Resideo (formerly honeywell) for this new panel since ADT owns DSC.
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I respect your level of experience and knowledge. I understand I don't have much time to research and learn about the different security systems out there, which is why I came here.
All im trying to accomplish for this homeowner is to give him the ability of controlling all his home automation via a single app. Since im still leaning towards smartthings, actiontiles seems like the best app that would bring everything together in a nice interface. Konnected just plays well with ST and actiontiles. This is what I was referring to: Konnected Alarm Panel INTERFACE for wired security systems | Konnected Inc.
Im down for any other option and convince the homeowner to go that certain route. In your experience would something like the evl-4 be able to accomplish this? Or do you have any other recommendation?
ADT quoted $2000 for the hardwired install and $63/mo for monitoring. I will be overlooking the entore install since im there almost everyday.
There are literally hundreds of security companies in Michigan. Not being experienced with security system I went with what the homeowner wanted. I think I can still convince him to go with something else but again I dont have enough experience to recommend another company. What is a solid home security company in your experience that would still allow me to accomplish what I'm trying to do?
All im trying to accomplish for this homeowner is to give him the ability of controlling all his home automation via a single app. Since im still leaning towards smartthings, actiontiles seems like the best app that would bring everything together in a nice interface. Konnected just plays well with ST and actiontiles. This is what I was referring to: Konnected Alarm Panel INTERFACE for wired security systems | Konnected Inc.
Im down for any other option and convince the homeowner to go that certain route. In your experience would something like the evl-4 be able to accomplish this? Or do you have any other recommendation?
ADT quoted $2000 for the hardwired install and $63/mo for monitoring. I will be overlooking the entore install since im there almost everyday.
There are literally hundreds of security companies in Michigan. Not being experienced with security system I went with what the homeowner wanted. I think I can still convince him to go with something else but again I dont have enough experience to recommend another company. What is a solid home security company in your experience that would still allow me to accomplish what I'm trying to do?
tangent
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We are talking about the same konnected. It is completely and totally useless to you.
I don't have a problem with ST and actiontiles, but when dealing with a 9000 sq ft house, I think other more expensive products are probably used more often.
The EVL-4 works with older DSC (not Neo) and Honeywell Vista systems (eg. Vista 20P). Info is sparse, but I'm 95% confident the EVL-4 would not work with the "ADT Command" system. Info is quite sparse, it's brand new, and third party integrations haven't been written yet. You could probably connect it via Z-wave to smart things, I can't say how well that would work since there are very few of these panels out there.
$63/mo is a real rip off. That said, most integrators who install av, networking, and security would have accounts with an alarm monitoring wholesaler (and the requisite training, insurance, and licensing that may be required) and resell alarm monitoring to their customers so they can get a piece of that pie (and hopefully rip them off a bit less). On the home automation front, most integrators would also work with systems like krestron and control4 which are polished but expensive and generally closed to customer customization.
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The ADT Command and Control looks like its using the updated Honeywell Lyric panel. I watched the video from ADT and it looks like they're using Honeywell SiX senors. The Honeywell SiX Sensors are two-way encrypted and they also have this feature called the "Lyric Lock". "Lyric Lock- When enabled, SiX devices are locked into the Lyric panel and must be unpaired by the installing dealer to be used again—protecting the accounts and hardware you’ve enrolled."
So now ADT will not only lock you out of your control panel, but also all the sensors in the house lmao. You couldn't pay me to have ADT install a system in my house.
So now ADT will not only lock you out of your control panel, but also all the sensors in the house lmao. You couldn't pay me to have ADT install a system in my house.
tangent
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You could pay me $100,000+ to have an ADT system installed in my house and vlog about all of it's problems (as long as I get to babysit the installer).Automation != Remote Control.
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Yea Control4 seemed to be the cheapest of the premium ha options and they quoted 4x of what my install is costing. The house is getting a bit expensive for the homeowner so hes trying to go for the cheapest options at this point.
lol ok ok, I get you guys are not fans of ADT. Can someone please give me a suggestion on which company I should recommend to the homeowner? A company which uses these other panels from DSC/Honeywell that would work with ST/ActionTiles/EVL-4
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