How to install PoE camera with limited attic access?

jec6613

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Sep 6, 2023
Messages
56
Reaction score
76
Location
Connecticut
Putting a PoE switch in the attic is a bad idea because they're not designed to function in extremely hot environments like an attic. If anything move it down into the garage space. Upgrade your cable to Cat6....I never run Cat5/5e anymore because they are such lower quality cables.
Such switches exist and they're not even very expensive. Example link, but the same company sells 24 different models that will work in an attic: 8-Port Industrial Gigabit PoE+ Wall-Mounted Front Access Switch - Front Access Switch - TRENDnet TI-PG80F

And depending on your climate and PoE load, you can actually use a pretty normal switch in an attic. When lightning took out my industrial switch in my garage, I swapped it for a regular one - It's using about 20% of its PoE budget and is actively cooled with dual fans, so it always generates enough heat to stay warm even when it's -10 out, but not so much it can't stay cool in the summer (though when it's 100 degrees out the fans are definitely pretty loud). And to be fair, I got the cheapest one that met my standards and figured if it dies in a few years, oh well!
 

Starglow

Getting comfortable
Joined
Dec 13, 2018
Messages
410
Reaction score
696
Location
North Carolina
Such switches exist and they're not even very expensive. Example link, but the same company sells 24 different models that will work in an attic: 8-Port Industrial Gigabit PoE+ Wall-Mounted Front Access Switch - Front Access Switch - TRENDnet TI-PG80F

And depending on your climate and PoE load, you can actually use a pretty normal switch in an attic. When lightning took out my industrial switch in my garage, I swapped it for a regular one - It's using about 20% of its PoE budget and is actively cooled with dual fans, so it always generates enough heat to stay warm even when it's -10 out, but not so much it can't stay cool in the summer (though when it's 100 degrees out the fans are definitely pretty loud). And to be fair, I got the cheapest one that met my standards and figured if it dies in a few years, oh well!
I couldn't find any actual customer reviews on that switch so call me skeptical whether it could survive sustained high thermal temperatures in an attic environment. All electronic components have a maximum temperature rating specification from the component manufacturer and bad things happen if the product design or installation environment exceeds those limits.
 

jec6613

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Sep 6, 2023
Messages
56
Reaction score
76
Location
Connecticut
I couldn't find any actual customer reviews on that switch so call me skeptical whether it could survive sustained high thermal temperatures in an attic environment. All electronic components have a maximum temperature rating specification from the component manufacturer and bad things happen if the product design or installation environment exceeds those limits.
That device is rated for 75C/167F continuous, if your attic is that hot continuously you have bigger problems. And of course you don't find many customer reviews, it's not a consumer device! You can check the whole lineup at Amazon though, they all work fine and are basically the same components re-packaged to different form factors: TRENDnet: Industrial

There are Chinese knock-offs as well, but I'm always very suspect of the no-name switches. Network switching equipment is actually very easy to survive in high temperatures with a component limit of 100C/212F, so it's a matter of doing the thermal design properly. What kills switches in hot spaces is the power supply, which has both a lower temperature limit and typically is harder to cool. You'll notice that all of those switches require external power, and that's why - the railway connector ones for instance are designed to pull DC voltage directly from one of the hotel load busses in transit systems.

Edit: you'll also notice few if any customer reviews of the Cisco industrial switches, for the same reason.
 
Last edited:
As an Amazon Associate IPCamTalk earns from qualifying purchases.

Starglow

Getting comfortable
Joined
Dec 13, 2018
Messages
410
Reaction score
696
Location
North Carolina
That device is rated for 75C/167F continuous, if your attic is that hot continuously you have bigger problems. And of course you don't find many customer reviews, it's not a consumer device! You can check the whole lineup at Amazon though, they all work fine and are basically the same components re-packaged to different form factors: TRENDnet: Industrial

There are Chinese knock-offs as well, but I'm always very suspect of the no-name switches. Network switching equipment is actually very easy to survive in high temperatures with a component limit of 100C/212F, so it's a matter of doing the thermal design properly. What kills switches in hot spaces is the power supply, which has both a lower temperature limit and typically is harder to cool. You'll notice that all of those switches require external power, and that's why - the railway connector ones for instance are designed to pull DC voltage directly from one of the hotel load busses in transit systems.

Edit: you'll also notice few if any customer reviews of the Cisco industrial switches, for the same reason.
Wait....I thought everybody just naturally hated Cisco switches....?? :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
 
As an Amazon Associate IPCamTalk earns from qualifying purchases.
Joined
Jul 4, 2020
Messages
2
Reaction score
1
Location
Conroe, TX
Welcome to IPCamTalk!
Here’s a stab at sorting out all the equipment you need to consider :
You need a modem to convert the internet access from your provider to an Ethernet system.
The router allows devices in your house network to talk to the internet through your modem.
If you have WiFi in your house, that’s provided by an access point that’s connected to your router.

What makes it confusing is that most internet providers supply one device that has the modem, router, and access point all built into it.

When you use POE cameras, they need to be connected to your network by Ethernet cabling. Think of network switches as junction boxes, because networking is not as simple as just twisting wires together. The switches, if ” POE” switches can provide the power to cameras connected to them . If you don’t use POE switches, you’ll need an injector to inject the power into the camera cable between the non-POE switch and the camera.

By the way, if your router has LAN ports for wired devices, it also contains a switch. Most do. But you don’t want to have all your cameras connected to your network at your router. It’s better to have your cameras connected to your network at a separate switch.

Did you know that you don’t need a router to have a functioning POE camera system? You need a router if you want to access your system from outside your network, but you don’t want your network to depend on your router as it’s ”hub.”

If all this makes sense to you, the next thing you need to figure out how you want to make use of your cameras’ output. Most people do it by using either a Network video recorder, or a computer-based video system such as Blue Iris.

Make sure you do a lot of reading here (and asking questions) before spending money. People here are incredibly helpful.
I’m trying to learn too. This is very helpful. Thanks for taking the time to type it up!
 

Nixer22

n3wb
Joined
Sep 14, 2023
Messages
21
Reaction score
14
Location
52537
Hey all! Thanks to you all, I was able to run cables for my camera. I went ahead and bought three cameras and an NVR. Thinking that I can send the NVR back if I decide to go the Blue Iris route. But, I've run into a bit of a snag with one camera not being recognized and need further guidance. Here's what I ended up doing.

I have two cameras from the far end of my house that have their own Cat6 going to a POE switch that I put into the basement. I then took a different Cat6 cable and ran it and a third camera cable to the NVR. Another POE switch has my NVR, router, Internet plugged into. I can get the camera that's directly run into the switch and one of the other cameras that come from the shared switch to power on. The other camera on the shared switch will not power on. Sometimes the orange light will be on and sometimes is won't. My NVR will not connect it. I'm not sure what the problem is- most likely something with how I'm plugging things in since I do not know what I am doing with the ports and am just willy nilly plugging in the cables. I have tried plugging the two Cat 6 camera cables directly into the switch, but have the same issue with the shared camera not always being powered on.

I've attached some pics to hopefully help understand what I've done.

First pic is the switch that contains the router, Internet and NVR. Light blue is the router, tan is Internet, dark blue is NVR
Second pic is the NVR. Light blue is the cable bringing power to the shared cameras and black cable is for an outdoor camera.
Third pic is the shared switch. Two light blue cables are the cameras coming from the end of the house. Dark blue cable is the one going to the Internet at the opposite end.

Am I completely wrong on the ports or maybe there's a different issue going on? Thanks in advance!
 

Attachments

wittaj

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
25,209
Reaction score
49,109
Location
USA
Only one camera per NVR POE port.

Any cameras not connected to the NVR POE Port has to go to a POE switch and that switch to the the WAN/LAN of the NVR.

You have to plug one camera in at a time and let the NVR find it or you potentially IP conflict them.
 

Nixer22

n3wb
Joined
Sep 14, 2023
Messages
21
Reaction score
14
Location
52537
Okay. So, can I not have one cable going to the nvr from another poe switch that contains two cameras? Do those have to be on separate switches?
 

wittaj

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
25,209
Reaction score
49,109
Location
USA
You can do that but it has to go to the WAN/LAN port of the NVR not one of the numbered NVR POE channel ports.
 

Nixer22

n3wb
Joined
Sep 14, 2023
Messages
21
Reaction score
14
Location
52537
The NVR only has one LAN port and I have it connected to the Internet. Can I move it to a numbered port?
 

wittaj

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
25,209
Reaction score
49,109
Location
USA
Nope. The only thing that can go to a numbered port is 1 camera.

Everything else has to go to the NVR WAN/LAN port, so you have to put the internet onto the POE switch that the other cameras are connected to and then hook that POE switch to the NVR WAN/LAN port.
 

Nixer22

n3wb
Joined
Sep 14, 2023
Messages
21
Reaction score
14
Location
52537
I did try that, I plugged the Cat6 from all three cameras into the switch with the Internet and had that switch plugged into the NVR and it still didn't power the one camera. Maybe I had the cable from the POE switch to the LAN port on the NVR plugged into the wrong port on the switch? That first picture has the set-up for the Internet/NVR/Router. The dark blue cable is the NVR cable. Can you tell if it's in the right port? Or maybe it has something to do with trying to plug in too many at one time as you mentioned earlier?
 

wittaj

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
25,209
Reaction score
49,109
Location
USA
On the POE switch, 1 thru 4 are the POE ports.

But just because they are POE ports doesn't mean that switch can actually supply power to 4 cameras.

Each POE switch has a power budget and depending on the camera power needs, it might not be able to power them all. Some 4 port switches might only be able to power 2 cameras.

Try them each with only one plugged in at a time. If it works that way and not all plugged in, then you exceeded the capacity of the POE switch.
 

Nixer22

n3wb
Joined
Sep 14, 2023
Messages
21
Reaction score
14
Location
52537
I unplugged my third camera and only have the shared camera cable, Internet, router and NVR in the switch and it still won't recognize the second shared camera. But it will recognize one of the cameras plus the 3rd camera when I plug that one in with the other. Wondering now if it's a camera issue. I attached a photo of the switch with just the shared camera plugged in. Not sure if I have the Inernet and NVR in the right spots? Also, maybe it would help to turn off the circled Extended Mode?
 

Attachments

wittaj

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
25,209
Reaction score
49,109
Location
USA
Yep turn extended mode off.

All that matters is that the cameras that need power are in a POE port - any other connections can go to any port including a POE port.
 

Flintstone61

Known around here
Joined
Feb 4, 2020
Messages
6,665
Reaction score
11,040
Location
Minnesota USA
Could he possibly have a bad termination on 1 cable?
does the the suspected cam work if it's swapped with another camera on a diff cable?
 

Nixer22

n3wb
Joined
Sep 14, 2023
Messages
21
Reaction score
14
Location
52537
Could he possibly have a bad termination on 1 cable?
does the the suspected cam work if it's swapped with another camera on a diff cable?
Not sure. The camera is far away from the next closest one. Would be a challenge and take a bit of time to test out that theory. I did notice last night that the infrared lights were on. Not sure if they stayed on consistently though.

The link light on the port for the one bad camera on the switch that I am using for just the two cameras and the cable going back to the Internet/nvr will not consistently stay on.
 
Top