Internal Security Camera System - Help

[BrewFixer]

Hi All,
I have an interesting challenge presented to me last week from my boss. We have a security camera system project on the corporate list but it gets axed every year for other projects. So the boss wants a system that we can install quickly, and doesn't cost much. sounds simple enough however, given the amount of cameras he and other managers want this quickly raised the cost and amount of work to accomplish.

Anyway, what I am challenged with is what software I can use for IP cameras and since our IT department want nothing to do with this, I have to figure out a way I can give access to folks to view the system without having to set up a server system.

My plan was to run IP - POE cameras where needed, Bring it back to a stand alone router that is handing out IP addresses. I can run a wireless AP connected to the router but I just can not figure out what software I can use that would have a WEB GUI. Keep in mind that this system would not be connected to any network with a DNS server and no internet access so so anyone wanting to view this system would have to jump off the corporate network and jump on to the camera system internal network.
Parts List:

• Clean PC with Windows 10 PRO / 1TB HDD + 4TB Storage HDD
• 6 POE 8 port Switches
• 1 Router
• 2 POE Wireless AP
• 30 POE IP Camers

 

[mat200]

Hi Brew,

I like the idea of using a better larger switch vs many smaller ones. In my experience it turns out to be more reliable that way.

 

[BrewFixer]

Hi Brew,

I like the idea of using a better larger switch vs many smaller ones. In my experience it turns out to be more reliable that way.

I agree totally but I am going in some cases 400-600 feet away from where the system is being located. Mind you I am installing this in a fairly large factory.

 

[tangent]

Hi All,
I have an interesting challenge presented to me last week from my boss. We have a security camera system project on the corporate list but it gets axed every year for other projects. So the boss wants a system that we can install quickly, and doesn't cost much. sounds simple enough however, given the amount of cameras he and other managers want this quickly raised the cost and amount of work to accomplish.

Anyway, what I am challenged with is what software I can use for IP cameras and since our IT department want nothing to do with this, I have to figure out a way I can give access to folks to view the system without having to set up a server system.

My plan was to run IP - POE cameras where needed, Bring it back to a stand alone router that is handing out IP addresses. I can run a wireless AP connected to the router but I just can not figure out what software I can use that would have a WEB GUI. Keep in mind that this system would not be connected to any network with a DNS server and no internet access so so anyone wanting to view this system would have to jump off the corporate network and jump on to the camera system internal network.
Parts List:

• Clean PC with Windows 10 PRO / 1TB HDD + 4TB Storage HDD
• 6 POE 8 port Switches
• 1 Router
• 2 POE Wireless AP
• 30 POE IP Camers

The bigger IT challenge is network architecture and security in my opinion. Presumably you have an existing network in the building.
A couple of larger switches is preferable in my opinion. Using vlans and existing backbones may be more cost effective, if the network can handle it.

At 30 cameras resolution and frame rate will determine how powerful of a computer or nvr you require, but it will be fairly high end.

Not quite sure what you envision the wifi ap doing.

New security vulnerabilities for IP cams are always popping up, the best solution is to enforce security on your network. I don't think it's very smart to leave the IT department out of it.

 

[tangent]

I agree totally but I am going in some cases 400-600 feet away from where the system is being located. Mind you I am installing this in a fairly large factory.

In a factory you may want to run STP cable instead of UTP.

 

[BrewFixer]

Yes thanks for the advise. We are using STP cable. As for the AP's it was just to get a few users access to the camera system remotely without having to walk back to the server. I agree that IT should be involved in fact it was their project to begin with now 4 years deep. Unless they get to install their $200k Axis system they will not give us a vlan to do this proper. I am not an IT guy but know enough to get a small system up and running. This has taken a new direction but I don't want to tap out just yet. The worst that can happen is that anyone (authorized) who wants to see events and clips would have to physically walk back to the area where the video server is being kept.

Thanks

 

[tangent]

As far as economical Blue Iris software comes at a price that you can't really beat. Other products have fees per camera. Software choice will depend on budget and expectations. Some VMS can integrate with your access control system making both more useful.

4TB isn't that much storage especially for 30 cameras. How long do you want to keep the footage?
Another option that's available is to put 2 NICs in the computer that runs the VMS one for the the private camera network and the other to view the cameras and update software. You can do things like run a time server for the cameras if you want.

Another option for viewing is dedicated screens. You can connect a monitor or tv directly to the pc or nvr. HDMI splitters and extenders offer other options. Devices like a fire tv, nvidia shield, or dedicated pc can also be used view cameras in other locations. Wired network connections are highly recommended for cam viewing instead of wifi.

 

[fenderman]

if you are going to do 30 cameras in a commercial environment, I would suggest a vms like digital watchdog (us reseller of nx witness) it is 70 PER camera but includes lifetime upgrades.

 

[toysareforboys]

I would use an NVR with a built in PoE switch, no need for a router then (NVR gives out ip's), and would save you the cost of one PoE switch as well, i.e.: 32 channel NVR: DS-7732NI-I4/16P (you can get knock off ones dirt cheap too, i.e. ENR51P6-32)

Works with 3rd party cameras (onvif or others). If you're looking for inexpensive cameras that work amazing at 1080p especially with bad lighting look for Jovision cameras, they support the Hikvision protocol too! I'd recommend the JVS-N3132SL (in 2.8mm or 3.6mm) or JVS-N3232SL-VF (if you need adjustable zoom/vari focal 2.8mm to 12mm), they have real time smooth streaming, true WDR and Starlight.

Those prices are for 1 sample piece so if you ordered 30 I'm sure they could do a bit better on the pricing.

If cost was no object or you wanted better resolution than 1080p I would go for the Hikvision 8MP/4k cameras, i.e. DS-2CD2385FWD-I

If people are going to be using a phone/tablet to connect to the wireless I would recommend Ubiquiti UAP-AC-LR's for the access points (if you don't need a directional antenna/signal).

On a phone or tablet (both apple and android) people can use iVMS 4500 (I don't recommend the "HD" version of the app) to view the cameras. On a laptop or computer they can use Internet Explorer, Pale Moon or iVMS 4200 software.

If someone has a desktop computer without wireless and wants to watch the cameras this USB adapters works amazing with the UAP-AC-LR access points: Alfa AWUS036AC 802.11ac 867Mbps USB 3.0 Dual Band Long Range WiFi USB Adapter | eBay

Make sure the PoE switches you get are full gigabit or have at least two gigabit uplink ports (some listed as gigabit only have a single gigabit uplink port, the rest are 10/100, that won't work for you if you're going to be running from one switch to another switch to another switch, etc.). Planet FGSD-1022VHP would work well.

Sounds like a fun project! Good luck.

-Jamie M.

 

[mat200]

I would use an NVR with a built in PoE switch, no need for a router then (NVR gives out ip's), and would save you the cost of one PoE switch as well, i.e.: 32 channel NVR: DS-7732NI-I4/16P (you can get knock off ones dirt cheap too, i.e. ENR51P6-32)

Works with 3rd party cameras (onvif or others). If you're looking for inexpensive cameras that work amazing at 1080p especially with bad lighting look for Jovision cameras, they support the Hikvision protocol too! I'd recommend the JVS-N3132SL (in 2.8mm or 3.6mm) or JVS-N3232SL-VF (if you need adjustable zoom/vari focal 2.8mm to 12mm), they have real time smooth streaming, true WDR and Starlight.

Those prices are for 1 sample piece so if you ordered 30 I'm sure they could do a bit better on the pricing.

If cost was no object or you wanted better resolution than 1080p I would go for the Hikvision 8MP/4k cameras, i.e. DS-2CD2385FWD-I

If people are going to be using a phone/tablet to connect to the wireless I would recommend Ubiquiti UAP-AC-LR's for the access points (if you don't need a directional antenna/signal).

On a phone or tablet (both apple and android) people can use iVMS 4500 (I don't recommend the "HD" version of the app) to view the cameras. On a laptop or computer they can use Internet Explorer, Pale Moon or iVMS 4200 software.

If someone has a desktop computer without wireless and wants to watch the cameras this USB adapters works amazing with the UAP-AC-LR access points: Alfa AWUS036AC 802.11ac 867Mbps USB 3.0 Dual Band Long Range WiFi USB Adapter | eBay

Sounds like a fun project! Good luck.

-Jamie M.

Hi Jamie,

I have seen a LARGE number of fraudulent and misleading use of the term "starlight" to piggy back on the success of the Dahua starlight line of cameras.

Have you seen more information such as the spec sheet on these, in particular I want to see
1) The imaging chip used.
2) Also examples of actual image captures.

Otherwise, I honestly doubt the quality is really in these units.

 

[toysareforboys]

Hi Jamie,

I have seen a LARGE number of fraudulent and misleading use of the term "starlight" to piggy back on the success of the Dahua starlight line of cameras.

Have you seen more information such as the spec sheet on these, in particular I want to see
1) The imaging chip used.
2) Also examples of actual image captures.

Otherwise, I honestly doubt the quality is really in these units.

I don't know the imaging chip they use but I asked my rep and I'll let you know.

As for the quality, they gave me a remote login ip for the JVS-N3132SL and initially I complained the image looked pretty soft, especially at night. They told me to log back in and change it from h265 to h264 (not h264+) and it was MUCH sharper, especially at night (not really sure why that would make such a difference). Turning on starlight changed it from black/white to colour and it was very nice (great colour, brightness and sharpness) but unlike Dahua starlight, objects that were moving had a slight blur/ghosting (as if the shutter was 1/15 instead of 1/30), not horrible, but for sure not as crisp with moving objects as Dahua.

I tried the same IP they gave me before but it's not online anymore, I asked my rep for another ip connection and if I can get one, I'll take some screenshots at day/night/starlight.

The company I work for ordered 16 jovision cameras (mix of JVS-N3132SL, JVS-N3232SL-VF, JVS-A4022SL and JVS-A4322SL-VF), should have them in a week or so depending on customs so for sure can test the quality then. I hope they are good (comparing them against the knockoff Hikvision cameras we usually buy, i.e. DS-2CD2342WD-I/ENC304-XD)

-Jamie M.

 

[mat200]

I don't know the imaging chip they use but I asked my rep and I'll let you know.

As for the quality, they gave me a remote login ip for the JVS-N3132SL and initially I complained the image looked pretty soft, especially at night. They told me to log back in and change it from h265 to h264 (not h264+) and it was MUCH sharper, especially at night (not really sure why that would make such a difference). Turning on starlight changed it from black/white to colour and it was very nice (great colour, brightness and sharpness) but unlike Dahua starlight, objects that were moving had a slight blur/ghosting (as if the shutter was 1/15 instead of 1/30), not horrible, but for sure not as crisp with moving objects as Dahua.

I tried the same IP they gave me before but it's not online anymore, I asked my rep for another ip connection and if I can get one, I'll take some screenshots at day/night/starlight.

The company I work for ordered 16 jovision cameras (mix of JVS-N3132SL, JVS-N3232SL-VF, JVS-A4022SL and JVS-A4322SL-VF), should have them in a week or so depending on customs so for sure can test the quality then. I hope they are good (comparing them against the knockoff Hikvision cameras we usually buy, i.e. DS-2CD2342WD-I/ENC304-XD)

-Jamie M.

This is what I found so far...

1MP Dome Long IR Range 720P Cloudsee IP Camera (JVS-N63-HY)
Regular price: $139.00
Sale price: $99.00

2MP Dome Long IR Range 1080P Cloudsee IP Camera (JVS-N83-HY)
Regular price: $199.00
Sale price: $169.00
( Case: Plastic )

Dome IP Cameras

update: Specs sheet - plastic case,
"Intelligent analysis for 1.3MP" - wait.... this is a 1080p camera ..
2MP Dome Long IR Range 1080P Cloudsee IP Camera (JVS-N83-HY)

 

[toysareforboys]

"Intelligent analysis for 1.3MP" - wait.... this is a 1080p camera ..
2MP Dome Long IR Range 1080P Cloudsee IP Camera (JVS-N83-HY)

On the demo camera, when I turned on "Intelligent analysis" it went from 1080p to 720p, so I guess it can't do "Intelligent analysis" at 1080p, that's what they mean.

For the camera my work ordered (JVS-N3132SL) they gave us this spec link: 3MP Starlight IP Camera-Jovision Technology Co., Ltd.

Color/Material: White/Aluminum

-Jamie M.

 

[tangent]

if you are going to do 30 cameras in a commercial environment, I would suggest a vms like digital watchdog (us reseller of nx witness) it is 70 PER camera but includes lifetime upgrades.

agreed a better VMS is the way to go. I'd try to keep it to (2) 16 or 24 port PoE+ switches, preferably managed with sfp ports. These would go in existing racks or wall small wall mounted racks you'd probably want UPS.

As for cameras, you could go with something like Dahua or Hikvision (or a brand they make) or something else like Hanwha who might have a better reputation for security updates. Other brands like avigilon are good too, fenderman will have stronger opinions here. To do all of this right with products that are appropriate for your environment could still easily cost $20-30k.

 

[toysareforboys]

...1) The imaging chip used.

"Leo" from Jovision said "chip in JVS-N3132SL is IMX123LQT-C"

He said right now they have PTZ demo camera outside and he will ask if they can change it to one of the 3mp starlight cameras and let me know.

I'll post in here when/if he does or when we get our cameras, whichever comes first.

-Jamie M.

 

[tangent]

"Leo" from Jovision said "chip in JVS-N3132SL is IMX123LQT-C"

He said right now they have PTZ demo camera outside and he will ask if they can change it to one of the 3mp starlight cameras and let me know.

I'll post in here when/if he does or when we get our cameras, whichever comes first.

-Jamie M.

While I have low expectations of these products, I think it would be better start your own thread to spam us about them rather than hijacking other threads. Theses are probably just another re-branding of can'tONK, dhieSuun or similar junk.

 

[toysareforboys]

While I have low expectations of these products, I think it would be better start your own thread to spam us about them rather than hijacking other threads. Theses are probably just another re-branding of can'tONK or similar junk.

Not a fan of cantonk?? I have one of their "darkfighter" 4k ip cameras (IPDH20H800) running a live stream at my work (it's 1080p at night but 4k during the day) and they sent me a free demo camera to test out about a year ago (IPTH20HL200) and I was always pretty impressed with it for the price ($33USD at the time) but never got around to installing it, so it's just sitting in my basement on a shelf:

-Jamie M.

 

[fenderman]

Not a fan of cantonk?? I have one of their "darkfighter" 4k ip cameras (IPDH20H800) running a live stream at my work (it's 1080p at night but 4k during the day) and they sent me a free demo camera to test out about a year ago (IPTH20HL200) and I was always pretty impressed with it for the price ($33USD at the time) but never got around to installing it, so it's just sitting in my basement on a shelf:

-Jamie M.

cantonk/longse are complete trash...aside from the fact that they blatantly ripoff hikvision firmware and they did the same with milestones vms, their quality is trash...see the longse threads...they should never be installed, ever.

 

[fenderman]

agreed a better VMS is the way to go. I'd try to keep it to (2) 16 or 24 port PoE+ switches, preferably managed with sfp ports. These would go in existing racks or wall small wall mounted racks you'd probably want UPS.

As for cameras, you could go with something like Dahua or Hikvision (or a brand they make) or something else like Hanwha who might have a better reputation for security updates. Other brands like avigilon are good too, fenderman will have stronger opinions here. To do all of this right with products that are appropriate for your environment could still easily cost $20-30k.

You dont really need to spend 20k...
2100 for the vms
2000 for pc and storage (can even do it for 1k if shopped right)
4-6000 for cams and the network gear...
Avigilon is also a great option, but will cost much more...and does not have the free upgrades...
Also, Digital watchdog provides a discounts on the camera license if you buy a DW camera...

 

[Valiant]

My plan was to run IP - POE cameras where needed, Bring it back to a stand alone router that is handing out IP addresses. ......... Keep in mind that this system would not be connected to any network with a DNS server and no internet access so so anyone wanting to view this system would have to jump off the corporate network and jump on to the camera system internal network.

Why use a router at all ?, Routers are only needed to separate different networks or pass traffic between them. Only issue is you wont have DHCP available. For that number of devices you can configure them each individually using the relevant camera discovery tool.