Ip camera outdoor with pir motion sensor

NickCam77

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Hi all!

Im looking to replace two outdoor cameras that have too many false alarms with new cameras supporting Pir Motion Sensors in order to get a more accurate number of real alarms.

I have problems with mutliple alarms triggered by wind, sun, lights, snow, cats etc.

So therefore Im looking for a good setup of a camera, pir motion sensor and illuminators to improve visibility during night time.

The equipment must be able to handle cold, damp weather as I live in a northern climate(Sweden).

First camera should be with POE and second with WIFI connectivity.

One Hikvision version I have been looking at is this model offering both POE and WIFI versions.

Aliexpress.com : Buy In stock DS 2CD2142FWD IWS English version mini wifi dome cctv network camera 4MP, P2P ezviz 1080p IP camera POE 120dB WDR from Reliable camera 4mp suppliers on SECURE LIFE Surveillance System

I want the PIR sensor to avoid alarming for small animals for example cats and dogs.

Thanks in advance.

Nick
 
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alastairstevenson

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So therefore Im looking for a good setup of a camera, pir motion sensor and illuminators to improve visibility during night time.
The equipment must be able to handle cold, damp weather as I live in a northern climate(Sweden).
First camera should be with POE and second with WIFI connectivity.
Or perhaps no-one knows of such a Hikvision camera.
 

tangent

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You probably need to get a camera with an alarm input and wire up a separate motion detector to it. It's mostly indoor cameras with built in pir, and there are better motion sensors designed to be used outside.
 
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triumph202

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PIR's that won't be set off by cats/ dogs etc. but still detect humans is a big ask. Their sensitivity varies depending on climatic conditions, so the warmer it is the less sensitive they are. They're also more sensitive for objects crossing their beam pattern compared to someone directly approaching the sensor. I've got numerous PIR controlled lights and some get triggered by warm/ cold winds blowing at night. I use the lights as a "trigger" for the cameras at night (using the camera's motion detection.)

I haven't tried over riding the daytime sensor and using one as an alarm trigger for a camera. I'd imagine it would provide less false triggers than motion detection but you may also miss out on footage you want recorded.

There are a number of 12VDC PIR's on AliExpress that are cheap to experiment with. I'm using one of these to switch some solar powered 12VDC lights on my front verandah, once I worked out the wiring diagram was incorrect it has been working quite well. It's got adjustable light level LUX (so can work during the day), as well as sensitivity and trigger time.

The other option is to research exterior alarm motion detectors. They'll be a lot dearer but should be better.
 

tangent

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PIR's that won't be set off by cats/ dogs etc. but still detect humans is a big ask. Their sensitivity varies depending on climatic conditions, so the warmer it is the less sensitive they are. They're also more sensitive for objects crossing their beam pattern compared to someone directly approaching the sensor. I've got numerous PIR controlled lights and some get triggered by warm/ cold winds blowing at night. I use the lights as a "trigger" for the cameras at night (using the camera's motion detection.)

I haven't tried over riding the daytime sensor and using one as an alarm trigger for a camera. I'd imagine it would provide less false triggers than motion detection but you may also miss out on footage you want recorded.

There are a number of 12VDC PIR's on AliExpress that are cheap to experiment with. I'm using one of these to switch some solar powered 12VDC lights on my front verandah, once I worked out the wiring diagram was incorrect it has been working quite well. It's got adjustable light level LUX (so can work during the day), as well as sensitivity and trigger time.

The other option is to research exterior alarm motion detectors. They'll be a lot dearer but should be better.
The cheapest fairly reliable outdoor motion sensor runs around $25 on ebay. Made by paradox or a knockoff, it's only IP45 so it should be installed under an overhang. search: outdoor dual pir OR dual pir ip45
WaterProof Outdoor Digital Motion Dual PIR Detector & Pet Immunity IP45 LU | eBay

A more reliable and more expensive option is the DSC LC-171 which is dual pir + microwave. A more compact option is the GE RCR-REX which is PIR + Microwave.
 

IPCamNut

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I'll share my experience with attempting to use PIR outside as a motion sensor to trigger camera recording. This includes PIR plus microwave sensors.

I could never get them to work reliably, no matter what placement / settings /configuration I tried.

They would issue many false triggers, apparently from wind, air currents, heat reflections, sun movement, clouds, foliage movement, or whatever. I'd get hundreds of false triggers a day, especially in the summer.

On the other hand, sometimes they would not trigger at all from humans, especially when the humans were moving directly towards the sensor.

I gave up on them.

Keep in mind that the "P" in "PIR" stands for passive - meaning that they are in effect infrared heat receivers that look for changes in infrared heat emitted by objects. Many conditions can cause such changes, other than human motion.

There is a different type of infrared sensor that I have found reliable - ACTIVE infrared or AIR. AIR sensors are more complex because they include their own infrared transmitter and a separate infrared receiver tuned specifically to the transmitter beam. This requires more complex wiring, because both units must be hardwired and placed across the monitored path and facing each other. In other words, the AIR transmitter emits an infrared beam that is received by the sensor - as long as the beam is unbroken, no alarm is issued. However, when an object passes between the transmitter and receiver and breaks the IR beam, an alarm is issued.

These AIR units have been very reliable, not issuing false alarms and properly issuing alerts when the beam is broken.

However, install one of these and you will learn how many animals enter your property - neighbors' dogs going on a walk and taking a detour on your lawn, cats prowling, birds eating worms, raccoons and skunks. I'm in the suburbs, not a rural area.

There are software programs with human form recognition that require fairly high level CPUs to run, and I haven't tried these yet.
 

tangent

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There are quite specific instructions on how to mount it and suitable locations.
That will be true of all pir motion sensors to an extent. Improper mounting can result in it not going off or lots of false alarms. Mounting height a particular sensor is designed for does vary.
 

IPCamNut

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There was no height that would get them to work reliably. Just too many heat producing /moving things outside in the summer that trigger it. PIR not good for outside in my experience - great for indoors though.
 

fenderman

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There was no height that would get them to work reliably. Just too many heat producing /moving things outside in the summer that trigger it. PIR not good for outside in my experience - great for indoors though.
I think you mean cheap PIR is not good for outside...what brand and model did you test?
 

IPCamNut

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I tried several PIR's including some from Honeywell Ademco. They were not cheap. They were just unreliable.

If you know of a reliable PIR for outdoors use that doesn't false alert from wind / sun / foliage in the summer, please tell.
 

fenderman

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I tried several PIR's including some from Honeywell Ademco. They were not cheap. They were just unreliable.

If you know of a reliable PIR for outdoors use that doesn't false alert from wind / sun / foliage in the summer, please tell.
tell us EXACTLY what models you tested..
OPTEX |
 

tangent

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I tried several PIR's including some from Honeywell Ademco. They were not cheap. They were just unreliable.

If you know of a reliable PIR for outdoors use that doesn't false alert from wind / sun / foliage in the summer, please tell.
How you install a motion sensor and the choice of model have a huge impact on reliability. There's a reason the manuals for the better ones are very specific about how and where they should be mounted.
 

NickCam77

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Thanks all for the replies.:):) Didn't think I would get any replies.

I guess using a Ip camera with PIR isnt as reliable as I thought.

If anyone has a camera and and outside motion sensor Product that is reliable and doesnt give lots of false alarms. Please let me know! Thanks
 

tangent

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I guess using a ip camera with PIR isnt as reliable as I thought.

If anyone has a camera and and outside motion sensor Product that is reliable and doesnt give lots of false alarms. Please let me know! Thanks
It all depends on the detector you choose and where/how you install it. I already mentioned a bunch of specific products.

It isn't one size fits all, different products are appropriate for different applications. Describe what you're trying to cover with some detail and maybe a satellite view, a diagram or some photos if you want more specific advice.
 
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Just out of curiousity, why is it possible to have a reasonably reliable ~$40-$50 motion activated floodlight, but it's not easily doable for a camera system? I realize the motions on floods aren't perfect, but they seem to work reasonably well, acceptably low falses and pretty much always triggers on a human. Better to far better than the motion based alerts that rely on video on most cameras/software I've used.
 

tangent

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Just out of curiousity, why is it possible to have a reasonably reliable ~$40-$50 motion activated floodlight, but it's not easily doable for a camera system? I realize the motions on floods aren't perfect, but they seem to work reasonably well, acceptably low falses and pretty much always triggers on a human. Better to far better than the motion based alerts that rely on video on most cameras/software I've used.
It is fairly doable. You just have to put a little effort into selecting the right detector and installing it in the correct location (and accept that some locations just don't work).
Floodlight motion sensors aren't accurate enough for my tastes, I regularly see them set off by bugs, rain, and wind or not set off by people. Depending on exactly what you want there are quite a few options that run $20-150 that should outperform a typical floodlight.

Many newer cameras have more advanced and more reliable video analytics that can detect things like line crossing, missing objects, and so on. VMS software like BlueIris can also do far more reliable motion detection when properly configured.

More reliable detectors have 2 PIR sensors and/or rf microwave motion detection.
 
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