IPC-Color4K-T180 Intermittent 'No Signal' in BI

[SOB]

I won a IPC-Color4K-T180 in Andy's last lottery and it's been installed for the past couple months. I’ve been having issues getting intermittent “No Signal” errors on BI. It appears to happen randomly and averages about every 10 minutes or so. The issue is only with the IPC-Color4K-T180, and does not happen to the two other 5442s that I have, all from Andy.

Here’s what I’ve tried so far with no success. If feel like I’ve ruled out any cable/connection issues:

• Switched between the two separate CAT6 cables run to this camera. I’ve changed the patch cable from the patch panel to the switch, and different ports on the switch. 'No Signal' errors still exist.
• The IPC-Color4K does require POE+, but I’ve confirmed that my POE switch does support POE+ (up to 30W per port) and has plenty of power (130W total budget) for these three cameras. Just for fun I unplugged the other two cameras, leaving only the IPC-Color4K connected. 'No Signal' errors still exist.
• I removed all the cables/connectors from inside the cameras mounting box, inspected them and made sure there are no tight bends or kinks. 'No Signal' errors still exist.
• In BI I increased the camera Receive Buffer from the default 6.0MB to 30MB. 'No Signal' errors still exist.
• I ran a ping batch file (.bat) for 4-5 hours, no dropped pings, ping response times were never greater than ~14ms.

With that being said, I feel like it’s a BI issue, which puts me at a loss of what else to try. Any help would be appreciated!

 

[wittaj]

It was discussed in the review thread. As long as it isn't actually loosing signal, it is a bug in BI.

Worlds First Review - Dahua DH-IPC-PFW5849-A180-E2 - Dual Lens 180 Degree Full Color 4K (8MP Stitched) Camera

So other than getting a more powerful computer, my suggestions would be to make sure you have a name brand power source, pure copper cable, and watch if you are really losing signal or if it is just BI having an issue thinking it is losing signal when it really isn't. I totally understand where...

ipcamtalk.com

Worlds First Review - Dahua DH-IPC-PFW5849-A180-E2 - Dual Lens 180 Degree Full Color 4K (8MP Stitched) Camera

Anyone have a picture of what it looks like on a Dahua NVR? Depends if viewing mode is set to 'original scale' or not. Original scale will show the camera in correct ratio with black bars, while original scale unchecked will stretch it to the video space. Then NVR5x-I series allow you to...

ipcamtalk.com

Worlds First Review - Dahua DH-IPC-PFW5849-A180-E2 - Dual Lens 180 Degree Full Color 4K (8MP Stitched) Camera

Anyone have a picture of what it looks like on a Dahua NVR? Depends if viewing mode is set to 'original scale' or not. Original scale will show the camera in correct ratio with black bars, while original scale unchecked will stretch it to the video space. Then NVR5x-I series allow you to...

ipcamtalk.com

Worlds First Review - Dahua DH-IPC-PFW5849-A180-E2 - Dual Lens 180 Degree Full Color 4K (8MP Stitched) Camera

Anyone have a picture of what it looks like on a Dahua NVR? Depends if viewing mode is set to 'original scale' or not. Original scale will show the camera in correct ratio with black bars, while original scale unchecked will stretch it to the video space. Then NVR5x-I series allow you to...

ipcamtalk.com

Worlds First Review - Dahua DH-IPC-PFW5849-A180-E2 - Dual Lens 180 Degree Full Color 4K (8MP Stitched) Camera

So other than getting a more powerful computer, my suggestions would be to make sure you have a name brand power source, pure copper cable, and watch if you are really losing signal or if it is just BI having an issue thinking it is losing signal when it really isn't. I totally understand where...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[SOB]

On replay in BI, it appears I lose about 35 seconds of actual recording every time it drops out with 'No Signal'. If it was a couple seconds I wouldn't care but a lot can happen in 30 sec.

@wittaj Thanks a bunch for the links. As much as I searched I never came across those posts. That is why I prefer smaller, more specific threads as opposed to threads that are 25 pages long and cover a multitude of topics which make it difficult/laborious to find what you're looking for.

Your quote on post #413 says "If you have confirmed you are using General, just plain H264, no self-adaptive functions, camera not going thru a router and are using quality name brand power and cables, I think the next course of action would be to submit a ticket to BI and let them remote in to your system so they can see the under the hood analytics on what is causing the no signal issues." I have confirmed all of those except the 'quality name brand' POE switch. I'm using an IPCamPower IPCP-8P2G-AF2 POE+ switch, I'm sure it's on the cheaper side but how does one determine if it's "quality"?. I hate throwing money at this thing but I've ruled out every other answer that I have found so far.

 

[looney2ns]

On replay in BI, it appears I lose about 35 seconds of actual recording every time it drops out with 'No Signal'. If it was a couple seconds I wouldn't care but a lot can happen in 30 sec.

@wittaj Thanks a bunch for the links. As much as I searched I never came across those posts. That is why I prefer smaller, more specific threads as opposed to threads that are 25 pages long and cover a multitude of topics which make it difficult/laborious to find what you're looking for.

Your quote on post #413 says "If you have confirmed you are using General, just plain H264, no self-adaptive functions, camera not going thru a router and are using quality name brand power and cables, I think the next course of action would be to submit a ticket to BI and let them remote in to your system so they can see the under the hood analytics on what is causing the no signal issues." I have confirmed all of those except the 'quality name brand' POE switch. I'm using an IPCamPower IPCP-8P2G-AF2 POE+ switch, I'm sure it's on the cheaper side but how does one determine if it's "quality"?. I hate throwing money at this thing but I've ruled out every other answer that I have found so far.

I would consider the IpCamPower switch to be quality.
Did you use pure solid copper ethernet cable of a gauge of at least 24awg. And not CCA copper clad aluminum.
No FLAT ethernet cable used anywhere in the system?
Was the cable properly terminated as per the 568B Or 568A standard?

 

[SOB]

I would consider the IpCamPower switch to be quality.
Did you use pure solid copper ethernet cable of a gauge of at least 24awg. And not CCA copper clad aluminum.
No FLAT ethernet cable used anywhere in the system?
Was the cable properly terminated as per the 568B Or 568A standard?

Good questions. 23awg Southwire solid copper CAT6, installed, patched, and terminated myself using EIT/TIA 568B standard, no flat cables. I'm no expert but I've been in computers, network, and electronics for a good 20 years. I figured if one of the cables, patch cables, connections, etc. was bad that switching between cables, switch ports, and patch cables would have found any cable/connection issues.

 

[SOB]

Any other suggestions or is down to BI support as a last ditch effort? Is it safe to let BI remote in to my system so they can see the under the hood analytics on what is causing the no signal issues?

 

[wittaj]

If you have confirmed (and it sounds like that you have) that you meet everything I have shown to eliminate the No Signal and it is still happening and is actually losing signal (which you said it does), then yes it is ok to let BI remote into the system. Many of us here have provided them access before. They will either have you temporarily open a port and create a temp username and password for them to use or some have set up a TeamViewer remote session for them to use.

With as much troubleshooting that I have done, along with the changes to the camera GUI and subsequent ongoing BI changes as it relates to pulling ONVIF events, I still suspect that there is some under the hood analytic issue between the new GUI and BI as a lot of people have shown the issue. I am not on the most recent updates, so maybe that is why I am able to stop the No Signal that a more recent update is picking up on something due to the new ONVIF pulls.

 

[dubber]

Hey SOB, not sure if this will be helpful for you, I have the same issue with my 4KT cameras.

I have replaced it with 23AWG cable(Multiple times), went from TP Link unmanged 5 port/8 port and finally to CISCO 3650 24 port and at one point or another, I will run into this issue.
Done multiple uninstall and reinstall of BI, use different versions of BI, remove and re-add via camera etc, same issue.

Only way that I was able to "solve" this issue is to "dum" it down to 15fps and 15iframe with bit rate of 12288. H264/cbr/general for codec. Just yesterday, for giggles, I turn up both cams to 18fps and 18iframe in the morninig and BOOM around 6pm, "signal lost".

My network/cam setup is cam to switch > switch to 2nd network card.

Not sure what kind of settings you have for your cams, but maybe try to "dum" it down and see if the issue goes away?

 

[wittaj]

Hey SOB, not sure if this will be helpful for you, I have the same issue with my 4KT cameras.

I have replaced it with 23AWG cable(Multiple times), went from TP Link unmanged 5 port/8 port and finally to CISCO 3650 24 port and at one point or another, I will run into this issue.
Done multiple uninstall and reinstall of BI, use different versions of BI, remove and re-add via camera etc, same issue.

Only way that I was able to "solve" this issue is to "dum" it down to 15fps and 15iframe with bit rate of 12288. H264/cbr/general for codec. Just yesterday, for giggles, I turn up both cams to 18fps and 18iframe in the morninig and BOOM around 6pm, "signal lost".

My network/cam setup is cam to switch > switch to 2nd network card.

Not sure what kind of settings you have for your cams, but maybe try to "dum" it down and see if the issue goes away?

Good call - I never tested it above 15FPS as that is what I run it as.

 

[dubber]

Good call - I never tested it above 15FPS as that is what I run it as.

What's weird is, my mini ptz, the 5442 don't have this issue. Only 4KT lol

 

[Arn0]

Also have a kind of signal issue with 4K-T here. Doubts remain here if the network / power supply (POE) or the camera (process not correctly balanced 4K high CBR +AI could reach processor's limits ?) is the root cause...

 

[Mike A.]

Maybe try running another monitor against the camera. That will tell you whether it's the cam or BI.

Try this to start. You can do a regular ping -t but this gives you more info in an easier way to see things over time:

GitHub - bp2008/pingtracer: Graphical pinging and traceroute application. Ping Tracer continuously pings each network host between your computer and a given destination, helping identify the source of connectivity problems.

Graphical pinging and traceroute application. Ping Tracer continuously pings each network host between your computer and a given destination, helping identify the source of connectivity problems. -...

github.com

 

[wittaj]

Also have a kind of signal issue with 4K-T here. Doubts remain here if the network / power supply (POE) or the camera (process not correctly balanced 4K high CBR +AI could reach processor's limits ?) is the root cause...

We have definitely seen instances with many of these types of cameras that if you try to run too many things or everything at rated specs that sometimes the processor in the cam can't keep up.

 

[SOB]

Hey SOB, not sure if this will be helpful for you, I have the same issue with my 4KT cameras.

I have replaced it with 23AWG cable(Multiple times), went from TP Link unmanged 5 port/8 port and finally to CISCO 3650 24 port and at one point or another, I will run into this issue.
Done multiple uninstall and reinstall of BI, use different versions of BI, remove and re-add via camera etc, same issue.

Only way that I was able to "solve" this issue is to "dum" it down to 15fps and 15iframe with bit rate of 12288. H264/cbr/general for codec. Just yesterday, for giggles, I turn up both cams to 18fps and 18iframe in the morninig and BOOM around 6pm, "signal lost".

My network/cam setup is cam to switch > switch to 2nd network card.

Not sure what kind of settings you have for your cams, but maybe try to "dum" it down and see if the issue goes away?

Here are the settings I've been running since I first setup the camera. My network setup is the same as your, Cam to POE switch, switch to NIC 2 in BI machine.

 

[SOB]

Maybe try running another monitor against the camera. That will tell you whether it's the cam or BI.

Try this to start. You can do a regular ping -t but this gives you more info in an easier way to see things over time:

GitHub - bp2008/pingtracer: Graphical pinging and traceroute application. Ping Tracer continuously pings each network host between your computer and a given destination, helping identify the source of connectivity problems.

Graphical pinging and traceroute application. Ping Tracer continuously pings each network host between your computer and a given destination, helping identify the source of connectivity problems. -...

github.com

Thanks, I'm running this now and will report back.

 

[Mike A.]

That should be fine. Pretty basic and not pushing it with anything there.

 

[Arn0]

We have definitely seen instances with many of these types of cameras that if you try to run too many things or everything at rated specs that sometimes the processor in the cam can't keep up.

Camera not heavily configured here : one single IVS rule, with a simple line crossing half of the landscape, within a small ROI defined... (Advises welcome with regards to ROI).

 

[wittaj]

Most here do not recommend using ROI. Try it without and see if that stops it.

 

[SOB]

I've been running the ping tracer for about 6 hours now. In that time I've had 40 "No Signal" errors (which is one every 9 minutes). Over 20,000 successful pings, 0 failed, and no packets lost. The highest ping was around 36ms, I replayed that timeframe in BI to see if there was a corresponding "hiccup" and there was none. At this point I'm confident it's not a wiring or connection issue.

I guess my next step (unless anyone has other ideas) is to contact BI support. I appreciate the help folks and I'll be sure to report back any findings/solutions.

 

[wittaj]

Yep is sounds like in your case it is simply BI is picking something up as a No Signal when it really isn't.

So you either accept that error and move on or if the OCD gets the best of you LOL, contact BI support to have them remote in and figure out what is causing BI to interpret it as a No Signal.