IVS vs. h265+ smart codec vs. motion detection

Discussion in 'Dahua' started by DReffects, Dec 5, 2018.

Share This Page

  1. DReffects

    DReffects n3wb

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2018
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Austria
    Hey Guys,

    just wanted to ask about your experience with IVS "enter/leave area" mode vs. Motion detection.

    I was under the impression that I'd be able to use h265+ (smart codec) and IVS at the same time since the dahua datasheet did not tell otherwise. Atm I'm a bit disappointed due to the limitation.
    (Will this be fixed in the future?)

    I am looking at a more or less static image - an entire houre 5MP 20fps clip takes up 170MB of disk space with smart codec - that increases drastically with smart codec switched off.

    Currently I find the motion detection to be unreliable as it reacts also to light changes. Is your experience with IVS + enter/exit area better? I'd be willing to turn off continouus recording but then motion detection has to work perfectly.

    Thanks :)

    Device Type IPC-HDW4631EM-ASE
     
    mat200 likes this.
  2. fenderman

    fenderman Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2014
    Messages:
    27,378
    Likes Received:
    7,341
    It wont be "fixed" as it was never intended to be used together as the camera does not have sufficient processing power. Hikvision cameras has the same limitation. The standard motion detection in the camera is useless. Line crossing is useful.
     
    DReffects and mat200 like this.
  3. DReffects

    DReffects n3wb

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2018
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Austria
    Thanks for the info. Dahua really should update their promotional material here as it gives no clue to such limitation. The whole point for me was to have features like line crossing AND a low bandwidth continuous recording. Goal was to have four cameras with 3 months retention. That's now simply impossible due to the high bandwidth demands, even with h265.

    I've experimented with line crossing and intrusion detection yesterday and do not seem to get this to work properly. Perhaps I don't understand the feature fully. Here's a screenshot:
    Unbenannt.JPG

    I'd expected that as soon as something hits the tripwire an alarm would be triggered. Unfortunately this is not the case. If someone walks up the driveway in about 50% of the time nothing happens, the other 50% the tripwire reacts only after the pearson has completely passed the tripwire and reached the garbage bins. Same with the intrusion detection area. At night it seems to be even worse, the camera does not seem to be able to identify a pearson walking up the driveway as "motion" in general. I also do not see any options for sensitivity with IVS.

    The detection areas are set at 100x100 min and 1500x3000 max

    It my setup bad?

    Is there a camera that supports both smart codec and IVS?
     
  4. fenderman

    fenderman Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2014
    Messages:
    27,378
    Likes Received:
    7,341
    Dahuas promotional material is for experienced installers. They dont want to sell to you. H265 is not "high bandwidth" in fact most installations use 264. There are many threads explaining how to properly setup line crossing.
     
  5. DReffects

    DReffects n3wb

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2018
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Austria
    Its very true that I am not really experienced in this area. Infact, those Dahua cameras are my very first :) Sorry about that.

    Speaking of bandwidth: In my driveway I average out at around 120-170 MB /hour (~270-390kbps) with h265 smart codec - That's well within the fact sheets from dahua and really was what I was expecting.
    I've planned my setup with 2x2TB disks to store 90 days of video from 4 cams. (~150MB * 24 hours * 4 Cams * 90 days == ~1,3 Terabyte) So I am very happy with the smart codec.

    On the other hand even the h265 stream of the scene above needs a constant 1-3mbps. This would blow up my storage needs to ~12 Terabyte.
    Do you have a link at hand? :)
     
  6. SouthernYankee

    SouthernYankee IPCT Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2018
    Messages:
    677
    Likes Received:
    263
    Location:
    Houston Tx
    Storage changes based on the complexity of the image and the amount of motion. Two identical cameras with identical setting can have very different storage requirements for the same amount of time. My outside camera that covers my front door, uses 100MB per hour. The front door camera is mostly looking a a white brick wall. The living room, with dogs and people takest 500 mb per hour. While at night the Living room drops to 250MB per hour. I am using h.264.

    I have 12 active cameras with frame rates between 8 and 15. And use about 135 gb per day.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
    aristobrat likes this.
  7. aristobrat

    aristobrat IPCT Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2016
    Messages:
    1,363
    Likes Received:
    946
    The camera needs time to identify movement and classify it as an object. If the camera identifies an object after the object has already crossed the tripwire (something that seems common when a tripwire is drawn near the edge of the image), then you will not get a notification.

    The usual way around this is to replace tripwires with intrusion detection boxes, making sure you have the "Appears" and "Enter/Exit" options checked. "Appears" will cause an alert if an object suddenly appears within the borders of an intrusion detection box, which is what happens when the camera doesn't identify the object before it enters the box.

    Are you using VBR? For relatively static scenes, that can help reduce the bandwidth/storage size. Also consider reducing your FPS. I use 15 FPS for pretty much everything around the outside of my house. That's also a chance to reduce your bandwidth/storage by 25%.
     
    mat200 likes this.
  8. DReffects

    DReffects n3wb

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2018
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Austria
    What resolution and Settings do you have? I am no where near those values. (unless you're talking about smart codec) With h265 VBR at 20fps, 40 frames iframe interval and a max bitrate of 4096kbit the camera stores about 1.3 GB Of data every hour. That's about ~2500kbps and for a completely static scene. No movement at all.

    Yes, VBR is enabled.

    Interesting about the tripwire. The camera seems to having a hard time to identify objects moving towards the camera. When someone is walking up the driveway no motion is being detected. From the cameras point of view it's an object that "scales up" at it moves towards the entrance. Is the camera unable to detect this as a change/motion in general? If so, the whole motion detection system would only work with vertical or horizontal movement?

    I've tested with intrusion boxes as well - same problem: the camera fails to identify a person walking up the driveway most of the times. Also it seems to be a problem if the object does not enter the intrusion box completely (which is what I guess causes the 'appears' setting to not work properly), something that is not really possible unless you're walking down to the garbage bins on my screenshot. Due to the perspective the head and shoulders often stay outside of the intrusion box / tripwire.

    So is my camera location the core issue? What can you recommend? I want to get the faces of people walking up the driveway, record that (the 'record the previous 5 seconds before event' option does not work as expected either btw...) and have a low bitrate continous recording (which would be awesome with smart codec^^)

    Thanks for sticking with me - I am most certainly a n00b here :D
     
  9. aristobrat

    aristobrat IPCT Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2016
    Messages:
    1,363
    Likes Received:
    946
    I ended up moving to Blue Iris for my recordings, so it's been awhile since I've messed with IVS. Is there any way you can share a video like below that shows the zone and what was detected as motion? That might shed some clues/suggestions. In the example below, the camera had a difficult time identifying the person leaving the house because the contrast between the person and the dark gray wall behind him was low. I ended up having to enable WDR, which made everything on the porch a bit brighter and solved that issue.

     
    mat200 likes this.
  10. Dark_Chocolate

    Dark_Chocolate n3wb

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2018
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    USA
    Have you tried the good old motion detection? It might work better for this scenario.
     
    aristobrat likes this.
  11. mat200

    mat200 IPCT Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2017
    Messages:
    3,286
    Likes Received:
    1,570
    @DReffects

    I would setup an alarm sensor - and feed that to the NVR or IP POE camera which has an alarm input.

    That should give you the best results imho.
     
  12. DReffects

    DReffects n3wb

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2018
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Austria
    Thanks for the Tip! Is there a trial version of Blue Iris available?

    Motion detection was a desaster. It recorded and alerted every time the camera made a switch from day to night mode and also went crazy when the sensor light of my driveway was activated (and then deactivated a few minutes later).

    You mean something like a light barrier? Do you have a link for that? :)
     
  13. mat200

    mat200 IPCT Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2017
    Messages:
    3,286
    Likes Received:
    1,570
    Hi @DReffects

    That or another alarm sensor. I don't have any links, however there should be a few good references you can search for here on IPCT.
     
    c.grex and DReffects like this.
  14. Muziking

    Muziking Getting the hang of it

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2018
    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    25
    Location:
    USA
    I was having trouble setting up IVS on the NVR itself.. for some reason the box would not show up on the live preview no matter what I did.. maybe missed something?
    B.

    I had better luck with Smartpss... intrusion boxes show up for me on preview after using SmartPSS
    I noticed that I had two areas to draw a box... the actual detection zone, and the rule itself.....
    Took me a few to realize the detection zone box was related to the zone it actually began to detect the object... at first I was drawing that box similar or trying to make it the same as the intrusion zone rule itself.
    Were you possibly making this mistake?
    If you do not draw a detection zone I believe the default is the full camera view.