Long distance camera install guidance

[fenderman]

http://www.nvt.com/assets/en-us/eo2_manual_en-us.pdf
There is a power chart in the manual...it can deliver about 25-28w at 656 feet using 22awg wire.

 

[Roman]

http://www.nvt.com/assets/en-us/eo2_manual_en-us.pdf
There is a power chart in the manual...it can deliver about 25-28w at 656 feet using 22awg wire.

The OP has multiple pairs of 22awg wire so maybe he can even twist some together to make a larger gauge (16-18 for example) which may stretch it out to reach the pole at 1000ft.

 

[seez52]

Well, I'm back. It's been two years and I still haven't done this install. But looks like this time we're going to have to follow through and get'er done. Wife had a bit of a scare last week. Driveway sensor went off during the day, she was home by herself. It was not at a time when the UPS man or the postman would be coming up the drive. Normally it takes a little over a minute for a car to make it all the way to the house, this one was really slow. As it cleared the tree line it stopped and really just inched closer. Looked to be a shady situation. Wife retrieved a rifle and waited. They came a little closer, about 75 yards away and she walked out onto the front porch, rifle in hand. It took them a second, but they hurriedly backed down the drive all the way to the street, about a half mile. We keep pretty odd hours and no set schedule. There have been some break ins in the area recently. Most homes here are pretty close to the street so I'm kinda surprised they would chance coming all the way up here.

Anyway, it's time to do this. Seems the most reliable way will be to run fiber from the house all the way down the hill. It's just shy of 1000'. And looks like the best power alternative will be to run 120v AC all the way down too. Doing the math most of the PTZ cameras with at least 25x zoom have a spec of 20-50w power consumption. If that's at 12vdc then that makes 2-5 amps. Does that mean that's how much the poe transformer is going to pull? Trying to get a size nailed down for the feed. Plus I'll have the fiber converter to be powered as well.

Since this is two years on since the beginning of the thread there should be some nicely updated cameras to choose from as well. I've been looking at the Dahua SD49225 and also saw a similar one from Amcrest. Suggestions would be appreciated. The distance I'll need to view from the camera is 0 to about 1000' which is where the driveway sensor is located.

 

[tigerwillow1]

Conduit isn't cheap as shit any more. I just got some 1-1/4 for 0.60 per foot, 3/4 inch was 0.28. AT 1000' that adds up to real money. At least you should get a quantity discount. If you're running 120 to the camera, I think you'd want to forget POE and use the camera's 12 volt input.

 

[GCoco]

Might consider using Ubiquiti radios for the first 600 feet and then direct buried CAT6 for the next 400 feet. Ethernet specs are only guaranteed for 330 feet, but you should not have a problem pushing less than 10Mbps. You can direct bury underground 14-2 with ground Romex to power the radio and POE. Radios are only about $75 per end, 500 feet of direct buried CAT6 is about $125, a junction box at the 600 foot point is about $50. You save the cost of conduit and fiber. You also save the cost of 400 feet of Romex.

Did I miss anything?

I agree fiber and 120VAC in conduit is he best most secure solution but the most costly. I am merely suggesting a workable cheaper solution.

 

[TonyR]

Since this is two years on since the beginning of the thread there should be some nicely updated cameras to choose from as well. I've been looking at the Dahua SD49225 and also saw a similar one from Amcrest..

Amcrest, a re-branded Dahua, does not offer any cam with a Starlight sensor, so I'd stick with the Dahua.

Good online voltage drop calc here. It says that for 120VAC for 1000 ft. to supply 5 amps and allow less than 10% drop requires #10 copper; less than 5% drop, #6 (OUCH!).

Since lightning has been tearing up the gate openers and driveway sensors as you said previously, then fiberoptic on the data is the way to go, IMHO.

 

[TonyR]

Might consider using Ubiquiti radios for the first 600 feet and then direct buried CAT6 for the next 400 feet. .................

Did I miss anything?

You posted some great ideas and I love UBNT, have installed a dozen or more Layer 2 Transparent bridges with NSM2's, 5's and Locos of both flavors over the last several years and have enjoyed great reliability and performance but......

According to the OP's past posts, lightning has killed many homeowner electric gates near him and even his own driveway sensors (more than once) so that last 400 feet of CAT-6 very well could be an open invitation to being struck, negating any $$$ saved, plus lack of surveillance until repaired.

Just my 2 cents worth (and I do understand it's a lot easier for me to spend someone else's money).

 

[seez52]

Has anyone tried using a buck boost transformer on long wire runs like this? Seems like this would be a good application. The load will be fairly constant. Wondering what kind of power range the power supplies for these type cameras need?

 

[GCoco]

I dont think you need a buck-boost if you use multiple 22AWG wires. If you assume you are using (2) 22AWG wires for each of the hot and neutral legs, the total resistance for the 2000 foot run would be 16 ohms. Assuming you have a 60W load, the voltage drop would be only 8V. That is if you are using a high power LED PTZ camera. A non PTZ camera would likely use no more than 15W which in that case you voltage drop would only be 2V. Most POE injectors both low and high power will operate with an input voltage as low as 90V.

 

[seez52]

I dont think you need a buck-boost if you use multiple 22AWG wires. If you assume you are using (2) 22AWG wires for each of the hot and neutral legs, the total resistance for the 2000 foot run would be 16 ohms. Assuming you have a 60W load, the voltage drop would be only 8V. That is if you are using a high power LED PTZ camera. A non PTZ camera would likely use no more than 15W which in that case you voltage drop would only be 2V. Most POE injectors both low and high power will operate with an input voltage as low as 90V.

I found this wire calculator that shows what bundles of small size wire can equal. I've got four pair of 22awg, in two cables. I could bundle all four out of each cable, one for hot and one from neutral, but I'd still need a ground.
Wire Combination Calculator

 

[GCoco]

if you use 3 conductors for each of the hot and neutral and 2 for the ground your voltage drop would only be less than 6V. Definitely not a problem.

 

[tigerwillow1]

Are you going to run 120 volts on this 22 awg wire? Take a look at NEC 310.4 and 310.5 and I think you'll see that this would violate the paralleling and minimum wire size requirements. And I think it says somewhere else that each individual wire of a paralleled safety ground must be able to handle the full current of the circuit's overcurrent protection device. For circuits carrying less than 50 volts, 720.4 would seem to say that the minimum allowed copper conductor size is 12 awg.

 

[seez52]

Also need some thoughts on a camera to get. Since first beginning this thread technology has certainly improved. Prices may be about the same, but camera quality is much better. The one I've been eyeing is the SD49225T-HN or the the SD59225U-HN. I'm going to need something that will provide long distance viewing. Here's a shot of what the camera will be looking at. I plan to mount it about 20 ft. higher that this elevation but the same location. Not sure if the "intelligent" features are important or not. I guess if it could zoom in at the farthest end of the drive and then follow a car that would be nice, but really don't know what's capable.

 

[seez52]

The ditch is getting opened this week (hopefully). In running the fiber I don't think I really have another option than getting it pre-terminated as I don't have any way to do the terminations. I'd like to try running one cable all the way without having splices along the way. I'll have pull boxes about every 300 ft. Does this seem doable? I'll be pulling it with the THHN 120vac.

Any recommendations for a fiber transceiver? I've looked at a couple of ones people noted here using and found them on Amazon, but really don't know much about it. Some have different style connectors and I'd want to get one that used a fairly compatible one so that if the transceiver gets replaced down the line I would have to swap any fiber ends. Most converters seem to be able to handle my 1000' without a problem.

 

[TonyR]

I'll be pulling it with the THHN 120vac.

My 2 cents? Use THW ("W" for "wet") and scratch the "N" (nylon jacket) on any conductor used outdoors....the "N" is for indoors only, because when used outdoors in underground conduit moisture will get under the clear nylon jacket if there is a single, microscopic scratch, mildew will insue, jacket will peel, colors will be foggy, making conductors hard to identify. I'd try my best to use THW, no "N" anywhere.

The salesmen and indoor-only electricians will argue but I doubt if any of them has seen "N' jacketed conductors after 10 years in an underground, wet conduit. After 20 they all look the same color.

 

[seez52]

My 2 cents? Use THW ("W" for "wet") and scratch the "N" (nylon jacket) on any conductor used outdoors....the "N" is for indoors only, because when used outdoors in underground conduit moisture will get under the clear nylon jacket if there is a single, microscopic scratch, mildew will insure, jacket will peel, colors will be foggy, making conductors hard to identify. I'd try my best to use THW, no "N" anywhere.

The salesmen and indoor-only electricians will argue but I doubt if any of them has seen "N' jacketed conductors after 10 years in a, underground, wet conduit. After 20 they all look the same color.

Yes, I'll be using the "W" version. Guess I also need to use the outdoor type fiber as well.

 

[CamFan]

For fiber, I've used Stonewall fiber, any length and connector you want. I used duplex singlemode 9/125 with SC ends, which go into my SFPs. BiDi which uses single strand fiber, giving me a backup strand. I used the cheap PVC jacket fiber as my run in conduit.

They have a nice pull eye for your conduit pull.

Of course, match your SFP to the fiber and transceiver.

I like SC better than LC, but both work. I used Gig MiniMC as I had them on hand, but lots of options out there.

I also ran cat6, but as expected, data didn't pass at 500ft but POE worked to power camera and fiber transceiver @12vdc.

 

[CamFan]

If I were to do it again, I'd look at using these

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XBSX9MX/ref=twister_B07837BZCD?_encoding=UTF8&th=1

 

[seez52]

If I were to do it again, I'd look at using these

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XBSX9MX/ref=twister_B07837BZCD?_encoding=UTF8&th=1

good info thank you. So you pulled a dual pair of fiber strands, but these transceivers only use one strand leaving a back up unused at this point?

 

[seez52]

For fiber, I've used Stonewall fiber, any length and connector you want. I used duplex singlemode 9/125 with SC ends, which go into my SFPs. BiDi which uses single strand fiber, giving me a backup strand. I used the cheap PVC jacket fiber as my run in conduit.

They have a nice pull eye for your conduit pull.

Of course, match your SFP to the fiber and transceiver.

I like SC better than LC, but both work. I used Gig MiniMC as I had them on hand, but lots of options out there.

I also ran cat6, but as expected, data didn't pass at 500ft but POE worked to power camera and fiber transceiver @12vdc.

When you look at the fiber itself they offer single strand, 4,6 and on up. Does it matter which of those I choose?