Need Help tweaking HFW5231E-Z12 for night @ 240ft

[Bitslizer]

@wittaj Getting there, this was picked up with 83% confidence and was accurate on plate recognizer. That's a rear shot. You can see it's still a bit blurry and not super bright.
View attachment 142213

This was with the following:

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1) open the iris all the way it let in more light (but it reduce the in Focus "zone" so you really have to dial in the ir focus)

2) be aware night IR focus is different than daylight focus. Most of us have a way to manually set the focus around sunrise and sunset

3) I had success with 1/500 shutter also, try that.

Plate are retro reflective and should work even off axis some what....

4) gain are basically "iso" in photography terms you get noisier picture with that high gain

5) smart ir is off, is the camera ir on? It should be max

 

[Bitslizer]

Try 60 degree or better yet 30 or 15 for 150ish feet

 

[bigredfish]

I think he’s running manual max IR

 

[carteriii]

1) open the iris all the way it let in more light (but it reduce the in Focus "zone" so you really have to dial in the ir focus)

Be careful with this suggestion. I'm an old school still photography person and went down this same thought process (opening the iris all the way for max light) but my testing of high iris values with this camera resulted in what appears to be "motion blur", even though the shutter speed was 1/2000th. My conclusion is that the iris setting is not exactly the same as a still camera's physical aperture setting and that there are undesirable consequences when trying to get an LPR image. I'm now getting license plates a little over 200 feet away with an external, focused IR illuminator, but I absolutely had to use a lower iris value. You can see my other thread on this topic, and the main post when I mentioned this, here:

which setting causes 5241E-Z12E blur with even slow motion?

I am still fighting with this camera to get readable plates when the vehicle is moving even 1mph. I will factory reset the camera but don't want to do that until the weekend when I have a few hours (in case something goes wrong). In the mean time, would a few of you share which which firmware...

ipcamtalk.com

I also second the comment that daytime focus is completely different than nighttime focus. You absolutely cannot use the exact same focus values for both for a plate at the same position.

 

[blazin912]

1) open the iris all the way it let in more light (but it reduce the in Focus "zone" so you really have to dial in the ir focus)

2) be aware night IR focus is different than daylight focus. Most of us have a way to manually set the focus around sunrise and sunset

3) I had success with 1/500 shutter also, try that.

Plate are retro reflective and should work even off axis some what....

4) gain are basically "iso" in photography terms you get noisier picture with that high gain

5) smart ir is off, is the camera ir on? It should be max

1 - I'll open a bit
2 - Yep on that already
3 - Others have pushed me away from that, people should be going 20 mph on my road especially since this spot is about 200 feet from the cul-de-sac end requiring a u-turn, but you people definitely hit it at 30+ every now and then.
4 - Yea, trying to keep gain low, so maybe I'll bump Iris up and gain down a bit
5 - Yes both near/far are on 100% manual

 

[blazin912]

Be careful with this suggestion. I'm an old school still photography person and went down this same thought process (opening the iris all the way for max light) but my testing of high iris values with this camera resulted in what appears to be "motion blur", even though the shutter speed was 1/2000th. My conclusion is that the iris setting is not exactly the same as a still camera's physical aperture setting and that there are undesirable consequences when trying to get an LPR image. I'm now getting license plates a little over 200 feet away with an external, focused IR illuminator, but I absolutely had to use a lower iris value. You can see my other thread on this topic, and the main post when I mentioned this, here:

which setting causes 5241E-Z12E blur with even slow motion?

I am still fighting with this camera to get readable plates when the vehicle is moving even 1mph. I will factory reset the camera but don't want to do that until the weekend when I have a few hours (in case something goes wrong). In the mean time, would a few of you share which which firmware...

ipcamtalk.com

I also second the comment that daytime focus is completely different than nighttime focus. You absolutely cannot use the exact same focus values for both for a plate at the same position.

Thank you for this.. I understand the photography side as well and this explains some of the odd behavior I've seen..

 

[blazin912]

Final thought of today, I have an ID10T error, if you know what that is you get bonus points. Anyways, I turned my shutter speed up to 1/100 last night, zoomed out, and played with my camera IR and off-axis IR. My off-axis is aimed too low. It's hitting the middle of my lawn and maybe just feathering the street a bit.. oops.

It's plenty of light I'm just not pointing it in the right spot. That being said, if I'm going to order a lower FOV light source, does anyone know if they make one on a ball mount? Dialing my angle both downward and toward the approaching vehicles required me to make a wooden bracket. Not a big deal at 90 to get the angles lined up properly, but for 15 or 30 I'd prefer a ball to dial in the sweet spot. @Bitslizer ?

 

[wittaj]

One thing we notice is that people with a photography background tend to struggle with these cameras. They just operate differently.

 

[carteriii]

One thing we notice is that people with a photography background tend to struggle with these cameras. They just operate differently.

I am definitely guilty of that. I absolutely wasted time based on assumptions that these camera's concepts perfectly mirrored what I knew from photography. The iris setting may in fact control a physical aperture for a bit, but I suspect at some point the higher setting is adjusting voltage or something else on the sensor, similar to what a gain setting does (or I thought it did). By way of analogy, think about how some cameras and software may start out with an "optical zoom" but eventually & transparently switch to "digital zoom", and the average consumer doesn't understand the difference. Dahua isn't great with any documentation, but all the settings may have been documented with less technical people in mind, taking a lesson from Spinal Tap turning it up to 11 when needing that extra push over the cliff.

 

[Flintstone61]

Due to the nature of my Condo's unwelcome back parking lot visitors, I needed LPR to start giving the Ramsey Cty Sheriff Plate #'s and vehicle descriptions.
It was definitely a learning process, I was hung up on trying to get color data during the day on the LPR cam. The resultant change from Day to night, would render my LPR compromised in focus and thus miss plates.
It became clear to me that the LPR should only be assigned one task. Having a Condo budget i was able to add overview cams and had plaenty places to hang them.... to get car colors, and people vehicle despcriptions.
SO now my 5241 z12 stays in Night mode, and IR comes on as the camera dictates.
I'm getting 99.99% of plates.
If I don't get your back plate coming in, I'll get your frt plate going out.
As a result When offenders have done stupid shit trying to win stupid prizes....I can at least get an officer to stop out and give me link to upload the data, and he'll get the plates....
The residents feel better, I feel like I'm providing a service to the residents.
It's better than just sitting there and " taking it"
i'm on my 3rd attempt at over view cams for thr 5241...right now its a 5442 2.8mm
depicted below i think is a 2231 turret w audio

 

[Flintstone61]

 

[Bitslizer]

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This was my v1 if you Change the lens maybe good enough. I was using this recently for a while with 1/500 and 7 degree lens when my first laser stop working and I was waiting for a replacement. You can try 30 to 60 degree lens (figure out the fov you need for your distance)

it's not ball head but you should be able to aim it anywhere

this
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I Think I had it was v2 testing different size lens than the first

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[Bitslizer]

Final thought of today, I have an ID10T error, if you know what that is you get bonus points. Anyways, I turned my shutter speed up to 1/100 last night, zoomed out, and played with my camera IR and off-axis IR. My off-axis is aimed too low. It's hitting the middle of my lawn and maybe just feathering the street a bit.. oops.

It's plenty of light I'm just not pointing it in the right spot. That being said, if I'm going to order a lower FOV light source, does anyone know if they make one on a ball mount? Dialing my angle both downward and toward the approaching vehicles required me to make a wooden bracket. Not a big deal at 90 to get the angles lined up properly, but for 15 or 30 I'd prefer a ball to dial in the sweet spot. @Bitslizer ?

Why do you need a wooden bracket?

May but be ideal but the combination of tilting the head up and down

and...

Rotating the cross frame clock wise or counter clock wise you should have the "reach" to point it anywhere, the light may end up looking at a diagonal or tilted. If you don't care about the look

 

[blazin912]

Why do you need a wooden bracket?

May but be ideal but the combination of tilting the head up and down

and...

Rotating the cross frame clock wise or counter clock wise you should have the "reach" to point it anywhere, the light may end up looking at a diagonal or tilted. If you don't care about the look

I need it tilted down say 10 degrees and to the left 30 degrees. The bracket on the light I have only supports up/down or left/right. Assuming I mount the bracket horizontal or vertical. In reality the height of the board where it is attached limits any diagonal mounting.

 

[Flintstone61]

Tonights settings brought to you by Clearing skies and falling temps. and the number 2000.

 

[wittaj]

Turn Smart IR off and blast it at 100.

Zoom in more if you can

Drop NR down to 35

Suggest not as big of a spread of gain - try like 40-60

 

[Flintstone61]

Shes' max zoom....Scotty.....I'm givin er all she can take!
ok.....I'm gonna need a bigger zoom. The Weathers turnin....I ordered a cheater. the Cat5e 2 cam one line/splitter thinga-ma-bob. Should be here in a couple days.

 

[bigredfish]

Definitely go to max IR

That tree may have to go

 

[wittaj]

The only way to get more zoom is a PTZ at this point LOL.

But surprisingly the plate was able to be read kinda LOL, so it will be interesting to see about a not so clean plate.

 

[Flintstone61]

The only way to get more zoom is a PTZ at this point LOL.

But surprisingly the plate was able to be read kinda LOL, so it will be interesting to see about a not so clean plate.

the 5231 z12 is sitting here in a box....waiting to go on Duty. That zooms more than the z4....