Need some help with camera recommendations and design

[tormund]

I'm looking to get some exterior POE fixed exterior cameras. I think the dome look is better, but bullet or eyeball camera might be ok too. Thinking going Dahua.

I'm good with waiting, AliExpress, and flashing camera firmware if needed. I have a server I can use for Blue Iris and storage so would rather have higher resolution cameras. I live in southeastern U.S., so weather can be hot and humid.

I have a layout of my house and also a layout of my yard and driveway. And finally, a google street view shot of my house.

The house is 85 ft x 30 ft with a screened in patio and small covered front porch. It's single story ranch crawlspace type house, with a room above the garage. The eaves are about 12ft off the ground. The roof is an A-frame and the 30-ft side long sides of the house go up to about 17ft for the top of the eaves. Above the garage eaves aren't easily accessible towards the front of the house, but there is a knee-wall around the corner on the front of the house after about 3 ft. The eaves are easily accessible above the garage towards the back of the house quarter though. And the rest of the eaves are easy to access in my open attic. So I can mostly install anywhere.

In addition to general exterior cameras for my house, I'd want front door camera (~7'10" high), screened in patio door camera (~8'8" high), and camera by my workshop door (that door is inside the fence behind the silver truck, and the eave there ~14' high). I'd prefer to avoid using wall mounts or roof mount/parapits type cameras.

I'd like to be able to identify people and license plates. I have a decent amount of programmable dusk to dawn lights, which hopefully would illuminate the yard and not hinder the camera performance.

I heard of Andy before and he seems to sell Dahua cameras on Amazon and AliExpress.

Andy recommended the following:

• For far distances, IPC-T5442T-ZE 4MP Starlight IR Vari-focal Eyeball Network Camera $187 with wall mount PFB203-W bracket or ceiling mount bracket PFA130E
• For close-up, IPC-T5442TM-AS 4MP Starlight+ WDR IR Eyeball AI Network Camera $149 with wall mount PFB204-W bracket and same ceiling mount and other.
• For driveway, IPC-B5442E-Z4E 4MP WDR IR Bullet AI Network Camera $235

I have a few questions I'm hoping to get some second set of eyes from?

1. If this was your house, where would you put cameras? I need some design help.
1. I have lots of security lighting. Do I need a starlight or starlight+ model?
1. Also, I've seen threads where people buy cameras from BHP photo. Are other vendors I should consider too?
1. Should I consider other brands like Hikvision or Axis?
1. What else is good to know. Do I need circular work boxes, plan to caulk the brackets, etc?
1. I asked for ICT discount, and Andy said just to order SUN-TUE and prices will be lower. Is this typical?

Thank you

 

[SouthernYankee]

I would use a turret camera.
I use three cameras for my front door, one mounted at doorbell, on mounted in the overhang pointed at the package drop area., one on the over hang pointed back directly at the door. Also a inside camera pointed at the door.
The garage door , two cameras one on each side of door, no higher than the top of the door, This is required if you park in the driveway at night for the door checkers.
Andy has a sale on feb 1- 3
The quality of Hikvision and Dahua are the best for the price.
Verify your camera placement, have a friend wearing a hoodie, ball cap and sunglasses looking down approach the house, can you identify them at night

=========================================
My standard welcome to the forum message.

Read Study Plan before spending money
Cameras are for surveillance to get information for after the fact.

Please read the IP Cam Talk Cliff Notes and other items in the IP Cam Talk Wiki. (read on a real computer, not a phone). The wiki is in the blue bar at the top of the page.

Read How to Secure Your Network (Don't Get Hacked!) in the wiki also.


Quick start
1) If you do not have a wired monitored alarm system, get that first
2) Use Dahua starlight cameras or Hikvision darkfighter cameras if you need good low light cameras.
3) Start with a good variable focus camera, so you test for the correct lens,lighting, camera placement.
4) use a VPN to access home network (openVPN)
5) Do not use wifi cameras.
6) Do not use cloud storage
7) Do Not use uPNP, P2P, QR, do not open ports,
8) More megapixel is not necessarily better.
9) Avoid chinese hacked cameras (most ebay, amazon, aliexpress cameras(not all, but most))
10) Do not use reolink, ring, nest, Arlo, Vivint cameras (they are junk), absolutely no cloud cameras
11) If possible use a turret camera , bullet collect spiders, dome collect dirt and reflect light (IR)
12) Use only solid copper, AWG 23 or 24 ethernet wire. , no CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum)
13) use a test mount to verify the camera mount location. My test rig: rev.2
14) (Looney2ns)If you want to be able to ID faces, don't mount cams higher than 7ft. You want to know who did it, not just what happened.
15) Use a router that has openVPN built in (Most ASUS, Some NetGear....)
16) camera placement use the calculator... IPVM Camera Calculator V3
17) POE list PoE Switch Suggestion List
18) Camera Sensor size, bigger is general better Sensor Size Chart
19) Camera lens size, a bigger number give more range but less field of view. Which Security Camera Lens Size Should I Buy?
20) verify your camera placement, have a friend wearing a hoodie, ball cap and sunglasses looking down approach the house, can you identify them at night ?
21) DO NOT UPGRADE your NVR or camera firmware unless you absolutely have a problem that needs to be fixed and known what you are doing, if you do you will turn it into a brick !!

Read,study,plan before spending money ..... plan plan plan
Do it right the first time saves money over having to do it twice.
Test do not guess
==============================

if you are interested in International Dahua cameras, a forum member sells dahua (and some Hikvision) and ships world wide. You can read some of the members recommendations on his service. He also provides cameras to other forum member for evaluation and reviews.
You can email him for a quote, or purchase from his Aliexpress store or his Amazon store. The cameras are fully upgradable, he posts upgrade software when available.

I recommend email andy

Andy
@EMPIRETECANDY
kingsecurity2014@163.com
Andy's ipcamtalk vendor forum: EmpireTech Andy
Andy's AliExpress store: Empire Technology Co., Ltd - Amazing prodcuts with exclusive discounts on AliExpress
Andy's Amazon store: Amazon.com

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[wittaj]

@EMPIRETECANDY is running a sale right now on Amazon, which is why he said wait until Sunday to Tuesday.

Lower is better for cameras. Try not to go above 8 feet unless they are overview cams. You want face IDs not top of heads.

You will not find better Dahua OEM than from Andy - members on this site provide him feedback and Dahua engineers work with him to update firmware that those that purchased from him get. In most instances Dahua doesn't even push that updated firmware out. So we get better cameras than you can get from another Dahua vendor. Andy also stands behind his service. Does B&H offer suggestions on which cameras....

You will probably find Axis cameras cost more than you want to spend.

 

[tormund]

@EMPIRETECANDY is running a sale right now on Amazon, which is why he said wait until Sunday to Tuesday.

Lower is better for cameras. Try not to go above 8 feet unless they are overview cams. You want face IDs not top of heads.

You will not find better Dahua OEM than from Andy - members on this site provide him feedback and Dahua engineers work with him to update firmware that those that purchased from him get. In most instances Dahua doesn't even push that updated firmware out. So we get better cameras than you can get from another Dahua vendor. Andy also stands behind his service. Does B&H offer suggestions on which cameras....

You will probably find Axis cameras cost more than you want to spend.

Thanks trying to run some calcs now. How many IPC-T5442T-ZE cameras would you recommend if this was your house? I plan to have one IPC-B5442E-Z4E for the driveway and two IPC-E3241-AS-M for my porch patio. I think I'd need 2 more cameras in the front, and 4 in the back corners of house, and then crossing with corners of patio, so 6 more total. You think 2.8mm is fine?

My eaves are about 12 ft so I'm kind of stuck with that right? Wall mount would be difficult to get ethernet cable to I think.

 

[tormund]

11) If possible use a turret camera , bullet collect spiders, dome collect dirt and reflect light (IR)

Wow thank you for the extremely detailed post.

Can you clarify why turrets don't collect spiders? They seems to have gaps exposed to elements and domes seem sealed.

And you have 3 turret cameras at your front entrance? Good idea on the pointing back towards the door to see people leaving. Didn't think of that.

 

[sebastiantombs]

The IR LED of a turret is far enough away from the lens to keep spider problems down to a minimum. Domes reflect the IR light back into the lens, the domes get dirty and the domes also degrade over time losing their optical clarity. The ball portion of a turret camera is where the camera actually is. It is sealed, water tight, so that is a non issue. I have two mounted vertically and fully exposed to weather and have no problems with them other than rain/snow on the lens which happens even with bullets and domes.

Most newer bullets also have some distance between the lens and IR LEDs which make pretty resistant to spiders as well. All cameras with IR attract bugs sometimes, a fact of cameras and IR which the bugs see like a spot light. Older bullets, turrets and domes had a ring of IR LEDs around the lens which made them very spider and bug prone.

Mounting at 12 feet will give you nice views of the bald spots and tops of ball caps or hoods. Eight feet is a little high, seven feet is way better. Getting wire to them may be a challenge, but is well worth the effort. Even a turret will need an occasional, maybe yearly, lens cleaning and at 12 feet you'll need a ladder to do that.

 

[wittaj]

Those are great cameras. Most bullet cameras today do not attract spiders like the old camera style with LED rings all the way around that attract spiders and thus webs.

Domes suck in the rain if exposed and you get glare off the domes from headlights. And you will need to wipe down more often than any other types (usually).

Could you get them lower at the garage area at least? Maybe punch through the garage wall.

To read plates, you need to have a camera just for that duty. It cannot do any other purpose well. In day time you will get the car color, but you have to zoom in tight enough that only the car is in the frame. And at night, you have to run at fast shutter speeds, so the image is completely black except for head/tail lights and the plate. See below. Suggest you go with the 5241-Z12E for that purpose. Are you a one plate You would be on the cusp with the Z4E.

Others will chime in, but at a minimum, if this were my house I'd start here and then add/adjust as necessary. I'd recommend getting one varifocal (Z4E or ZE) and test at each location to ensure it is providing the coverage you want and then purchase the rest based on your findings.



Red is the AS model
Yellow is the Z12E model
Green is the Z4E model
Purple is the ZE model

 

[tormund]

Mounting at 12 feet will give you nice views of the bald spots and tops of ball caps or hoods. Eight feet is a little high, seven feet is way better. Getting wire to them may be a challenge, but is well worth the effort. Even a turret will need an occasional, maybe yearly, lens cleaning and at 12 feet you'll need a ladder to do that.

Yea I guess I could do wall mount and come down with conduit. Need to find some pics to see how it would look of that, and also the three camera configuration at he front door that a few have mentioned.

 

[wittaj]

Many here paint the mount, camera, and conduit to match the house...and even if you don't you would be surprised how few people notice anyway.

 

[tormund]

Could you get them lower at the garage area at least? Maybe punch through the garage wall.

...Suggest you go with the 5241-Z12E for that purpose. Are you a one plate You would be on the cusp with the Z4E.

Yellow is the Z12E model

Wow thank you for the in depth response and layout!!! this is really helpful.

Any chance you have a link to the 5241-Z12E. I can't seem to find it on Andy's Amazon store. I'm sure I'll have some questions to ask once I digest a bit more.

 

[wittaj]

Here you go. It is the go to camera for many of us here that want to read plates. It is the more powerful zoom that we all need and 2MP is more than enough for plates. In fact a member here had the Z4E for plates and switched it out for the Z12 and put the Z4E at another location.

You will also want to visit the LPR section of this forum - many of us have posted settings to start as a guide.

https://www.amazon.com/Loryta-IPC-HFW5241E-Z12E-Starlight-Network-English/dp/B07RJQT9NB/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=z12&m=A329YQ83EBQGJF&qid=1612151634&s=merchant-items&sr=1-5

 

[wittaj]

As it relates to camera placement, check out this thread as well! He is the unofficial king of number of cameras for the front door!

Why I Like Redundant Views/Multiple Cam Views

A lot of newbies ask for help with their camera setups and most think that they can get by with a single cam to cover quite a bit of area. While that is possible if all you are interested in is a wide-angle overview, it usually will not give you a great chance of getting a face shot good enough...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[tormund]

Here you go.

Great. Don't know why it didn't pull up. I'll plan to do wall mount for my cameras and run up conduit to get them lower.

Do you recall any pics that might show how the 3 camera arrangement looks on the porch? Just trying to visualize where things will go.

 

[wittaj]

You will find that in the thread I linked by another member here!

 

[tormund]

You will find that in the thread I linked by another member here!

Thanks! So it looks like I could point one facing my front door, another profile shot, and a final one as kind of a doorbell cameras facing outwards. That's basically what you intended with your drawing too right?

 

[wittaj]

Yes!

Or you could add this one to the mix for the porch area - two cameras in one - so only one cable needed - it is an older camera but many of us use this one as well. Works well if the porch light is on. I have two of these units.

https://www.amazon.com/EmpireTech-IPC-HDBW4231F-E2-M-Starlight-Network-English/dp/B07JZBFTDF/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=IPC-HDBW4231F-E2-M&m=A329YQ83EBQGJF&qid=1612188865&s=merchant-items&sr=1-2

Review-Dahua IPC-HDBW4231F-E2-M Dual Starlight Cam

@fenderman first mentioned this cam back in March here: Seeing double - New Dahua dual Starlight IPC-HDBW4231F-E2-M/M12 Courtesy of @EMPIRETECANDY we have the, as my wife has dubbed it, the "boobie" cam IPC-HDBW4231F-E2-M to checkout. ;) I have received this cam in exchange for a fair and...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[tormund]

Yes!

Or you could add this one to the mix for the porch area - two cameras in one - so only one cable needed - it is an older camera but many of us use this one as well. Works well if the porch light is on. I have two of these units.

https://www.amazon.com/EmpireTech-IPC-HDBW4231F-E2-M-Starlight-Network-English/dp/B07JZBFTDF/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=IPC-HDBW4231F-E2-M&m=A329YQ83EBQGJF&qid=1612188865&s=merchant-items&sr=1-2

Review-Dahua IPC-HDBW4231F-E2-M Dual Starlight Cam

@fenderman first mentioned this cam back in March here: Seeing double - New Dahua dual Starlight IPC-HDBW4231F-E2-M/M12 Courtesy of @EMPIRETECANDY we have the, as my wife has dubbed it, the "boobie" cam IPC-HDBW4231F-E2-M to checkout. ;) I have received this cam in exchange for a fair and...

ipcamtalk.com

Nice. Do you have a picture of your porch setup?

 

[wittaj]

Let me try to find one. But I know many have shown their set-up in that thread. I may have as well on one of those 38 pages LOL.

 

[tormund]

Let me try to find one. But I know many have shown their set-up in that thread. I may have as well on one of those 38 pages LOL.

Thank I sort of follow it, but it was a lot of picture. Just want to ensure I understand properly. Like looking at the porch from the street view would be ideal.

 

[wittaj]

Yea, so you could install it on the ceiling of the porch and have one of these pointing back towards the door and another looking down where packages would be. Or put it on a porch column doing the same thing.