New Cam on existing cable run

[mpunt]

I purchased two new ds2335 cams and am trying to swap them out with two existing ds2332 cams. The new 2335 cams work on ports 7 or 8 on back of my 7608 nvr. They work fine connected there with a small cable (5e) directly in the back of the nvr. Also, the new 2335s work when I connect them using the same cable to port 1 on back of the nvr (directly in back of the nvr). If I reconnect the cable (Cat 6) that was used for the 2332 on port 1 and put the new 2335 in place of the 2332 outside the house, I get no picture and I believe it said network not found or some error like that. If I put the old 2332 back in place, it works fine as it did.
Is there a logical explanation why a camera would not work on an existing cable run that works for another camera? And why this new camera would work on a simple cat5e cable when connected directly to the nvr?
Thanks

 

[alastairstevenson]

Is there a logical explanation why a camera would not work on an existing cable run that works for another camera? And why this new camera would work on a simple cat5e cable when connected directly to the nvr?

That's pretty likely to be due to the cable not wired correctly at the terminations.
Ethernet is pretty forgiving even if the twisted pairs are not respected, and can grumble along quite well with serious signal problems being dealt with and hidden from view.
Check the ends against the T568B wiring standard.

 

[mpunt]

Thanks for the reply. So the same cable run could work for one camera but not the next? We also tried a second 2335 on a different run by the front door (first one was at the driveway) and had the same issue. Right now the original cams are all back in place and everything working as it did. If one side is A and the other side is B, one cam theoretically could work and another one wouldn't?
Also, the installer attached a device on the line that he said could tell if there was a problem in the run and he said it came back clean and that it was cat6 the whole way. He eventually gave up and left for the day. Thanks again for any help.

 

[Mr_D]

If one side is A and the other side is B, one cam theoretically could work and another one wouldn't?

That would be a crossover cable. Crossover cables were once used to connect two Ethernet hubs, switches, or PCs directly together. Modern equipment can automatically swap the send/receive pairs, making crossover cables unnecessary or tolerate their use. So in theory, its possible to have one piece of equipment able to tolerate the crossover cable while another may not.

 

[alastairstevenson]

the installer attached a device on the line that he said could tell if there was a problem in the run and he said it came back clean

A simple continuity tester would still give a good result even if the wiring was incorrect such that the twisted pairs that are required for signal integrity were not being maintained as per the standard.

Check the ends against the T568B wiring standard.

With a magnifier you should be able to inspect the wire colours on the RJ45 end and compare them against the requirements of the T568B standard.

 

[TonyR]

 

[mpunt]

I can't seem to find the device he used online but I believe it was more than a simple continuity tester. It seems to have a bunch of readouts and he made it out to be an expensive piece of equipment. The only other thing in between the cams and the nvr is a patch panel. Sounds like the issue could be at the panel or the cable between the patch panel and nvr. They redid the jack at the camera yesterday to make sure it was good. Thanks again.

And thanks TonyR

 

[fenderman]

I can't seem to find the device he used online but I believe it was more than a simple continuity tester. It seems to have a bunch of readouts and he made it out to be an expensive piece of equipment. The only other thing in between the cams and the nvr is a patch panel. Sounds like the issue could be at the panel or the cable between the patch panel and nvr. They redid the jack at the camera yesterday to make sure it was good. Thanks again.

And thanks TonyR

Who cares about the device....why don't you confirm the 568b standard...takes a minute.

 

[mpunt]

Yes. That's my plan right now, to check the wiring myself. I'll report back. Thanks

 

[mpunt]

Number 6. Looks like B to me.
I’ve also connected the new cam to the cable that was connected between the patch panel and the nvr and cam worked. So that eliminates that cable being an issue. That just leaves the blue cat6 connected between the patch panel and the camera outside. About a 15 foot run. Outside is wired as B also.

 

[mpunt]

I eliminated the patch panel from the equation. Terminated the cat6 plugged it right into the nvr on port 1. The network light on port 1 will not light up with the new camera. I put the old camera back on and the network light lit up and camera came online. When the new cam is connected on that blue cat6 it says ip camera does not exist in cam setup menu (I tried with both new 2335s). The only explanation is that it is the cable itself being the issue. I don't know why or how that is. The house was run entirely with cat6 two years ago. I tried the new camera on the run at the garage and on the run at the front door. I don't mean to jump the gun, but if the cables are the issue, will I not be able to upgrade these cameras in the future without running new cables??? This sounds crazy that the cable isn't good enough for a camera so I'm hoping there's something that is being overlooked. Any other recommendations? Thanks again.

 

[Mr_D]

I eliminated the patch panel from the equation. Terminated the cat6 plugged it right into the nvr on port 1. The network light on port 1 will not light up with the new camera. I put the old camera back on and the network light lit up and camera came online. When the new cam is connected on that blue cat6 it says ip camera does not exist in cam setup menu (I tried with both new 2335s). The only explanation is that it is the cable itself being the issue. I don't know why or how that is. The house was run entirely with cat6 two years ago. I tried the new camera on the run at the garage and on the run at the front door. I don't mean to jump the gun, but if the cables are the issue, will I not be able to upgrade these cameras in the future without running new cables??? This sounds crazy that the cable isn't good enough for a camera so I'm hoping there's something that is being overlooked. Any other recommendations? Thanks again.

Properly installed and terminated Cat6 is way better than any of these cameras need. They'll actually do just fine on Cat5 since they're only syncing at 100Mbit and only really pushing maybe 10Mbit at most. The key is that it must be properly terminated. Yes, it's possible to damage a cable during installation, but usually the issue is at the ends.

 

[fenderman]

Also ensure the cable is not copper clad aluminum CCA garbage..

 

[mpunt]

It would have to be two cables that were damaged since I tried this on two different runs.
Cable pic attached.

 

[mpunt]

After more troubleshooting today, it must have something to do with the existing cable. Maybe it’s kinked. Maybe it’s cut. I don’t know. We used a box of 200’ cat 6 and terminates each end and the new camera work. I had to stick with the old cams and ran new cable to back of house for the new cameras. Thanks for all your help.

 

[mat200]

After more troubleshooting today, it must have something to do with the existing cable. Maybe it’s kinked. Maybe it’s cut. I don’t know. We used a box of 200’ cat 6 and terminates each end and the new camera work. I had to stick with the old cams and ran new cable to back of house for the new cameras. Thanks for all your help.

Hi Mpunt,

Interesting problem.

suspected cable issues -
possible damage to the cat6 cable line(s)?
possible need to redo connectors?

Try one more thing - power off everything in your home and run the NVR and PoE switch off a battery and see if that changes anything with the cameras?
( this test is to check for EMI issues )

[ hint for those watching - this is why I like N+1 cables - as it gives you an extra cable to test with or use in situations like this ]

 

[mpunt]

Thanks for the additional info. We reterminated the old cable a few times. We also tried adding a poe switch in between and then added new camera on old line. No go.
We also did consider interference (but didn’t power anything down) since the cable to the driveway camera does run above the fuse box. Two things regarding that. The old camera works so how much interference can it have? Also, the cable run to the front door most likely does not run over the fuse box and the new camera did not work there either on old (2 year cat 6) cable.

 

[mat200]

Thanks for the additional info. We reterminated the old cable a few times. We also tried adding a poe switch in between and then added new camera on old line. No go.
We also did consider interference (but didn’t power anything down) since the cable to the driveway camera does run above the fuse box. Two things regarding that. The old camera works so how much interference can it have? Also, the cable run to the front door most likely does not run over the fuse box and the new camera did not work there either on old (2 year cat 6) cable.

Hi mpunt,

Hard to say, you've got one of those frustrating problems where the old cameras are working on the line but not the new ones... thus significantly harder to determine the issue.

 

[mpunt]

Thanks mat200. Yes, it is extremely frustrating. To think that I may need to pull new cables in the future if I upgrade all the cameras is bothersome.

 

[alastairstevenson]

Suggestion to maybe see if it's a POE excessive voltage drop on a long (maybe CCA) cable that's implicated:
If feasible - temporarily power the new camera on the not-working old cable with a 12v power supply directly at the camera.
Ethernet is much more forgiving of cable resistance than POE.