New home set up - First post

G

gbhalla

n3wb
May 16, 2021
14
8
Canada
Hi, Firstly thanks to all of you for the stupendous work (esp the leaders here on the forum, Fenderman et. al.) , content and the resources. I am learning a ton but there is much to learn and I am a n00b.

I have attached two shots of a home I am looking to secure. The home is located in an area with 0 crime and my goal is mainly deterrence. I chose the IPC-T5442T-ZE varifocal turets to create this (5 total).

Some notes:

1.On the front, the tilted camera is near the main door and I may decide to use a fixed lens 2.8 mm.
2. The other front cam will be about 7 ft high on the garage door
3. The back cameras (3 total) are all varifocals
4. I do understand that there are some blind-spots on the front and the side of the home. My hope is that these areas aren't high risk (low chance of entry) and the back cams will give me some visibility into the sides
5. I am also planning to install a Honeywell Vista 20P along with this set-up (alarmgrid with monitoring)
6. I am looking to go with the NVR route and understand that BI may be superior

Questions:

1. Thoughts on the external set up esp. choice of cams and location?
2. Ways in which I could integrate Vista with the IP cams on the outside. I am assuming the alarmgrid monitoring will not monitor the IP cams 24/7?
3. Thoughts on mounting, I do understand that junction mounts are the way to do it. Is that the case?
4. I am confused whether I should put up some cams inside the home or not. I know it is recommended here. But my sense if that if I cover the outside well and have the alarmgrid system installed, perhaps I don't need the internal ones. But you folks are the experts. Am I right here?
 

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:welcome:

As I always say you can never have enough cameras. The big problem is always the budget and the "War Department" (wife). I like to have dua coverage of every side of the house. The cameras point back toward each other to "watch" the cameras plus let you get them "coming and going" no matter where they might approach from. Interior cameras can be helpful when things go wrong. Watching the doors from the inside for example or watching common areas.

I'm not into integrating BI and my alarm system. They both work well as it is and I can easily check the video system should the alarm ever go off. BI sends me emails and SMS messages if I want it to should it detect anything of interest.

Without knowing what your mounting surfaces are like there's really no way to tell, for certain, if you need mounting boxes for the cameras. A mounting box does make it easy to protect the RJ45 connection though, but even with a box it should be taped with a self amalgamating tape and quality electrical tape. Moisture, condensation, will happen if that connection is not well protected and moisture is an enemy.
 
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gbhalla said:
Hi, Firstly thanks to all of you for the stupendous work (esp the leaders here on the forum, Fenderman et. al.) , content and the resources. I am learning a ton but there is much to learn and I am a n00b.

I have attached two shots of a home I am looking to secure. The home is located in an area with 0 crime and my goal is mainly deterrence. I chose the IPC-T5442T-ZE varifocal turets to create this (5 total).

Some notes:

1.On the front, the tilted camera is near the main door and I may decide to use a fixed lens 2.8 mm.
2. The other front cam will be about 7 ft high on the garage door
3. The back cameras (3 total) are all varifocals
4. I do understand that there are some blind-spots on the front and the side of the home. My hope is that these areas aren't high risk (low chance of entry) and the back cams will give me some visibility into the sides
5. I am also planning to install a Honeywell Vista 20P along with this set-up (alarmgrid with monitoring)
6. I am looking to go with the NVR route and understand that BI may be superior

Questions:

1. Thoughts on the external set up esp. choice of cams and location?
2. Ways in which I could integrate Vista with the IP cams on the outside. I am assuming the alarmgrid monitoring will not monitor the IP cams 24/7?
3. Thoughts on mounting, I do understand that junction mounts are the way to do it. Is that the case?
4. I am confused whether I should put up some cams inside the home or not. I know it is recommended here. But my sense if that if I cover the outside well and have the alarmgrid system installed, perhaps I don't need the internal ones. But you folks are the experts. Am I right here?
Click to expand...

welcome @gbhalla

1) deterrence, does not always work.. so think of this as limited effectiveness option.

2) do plan for more cameras, I like to start with one camera on each side of the garage at about door height - typically this is a easier installation option as you can often find a way to route a cat5e/6 cable from the garage door frame area to the outside if a finished garage, or if unfinished can find a good location to drill a small hole out to a junction box.
 
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Thanks Seb and Mat. Quick follow up:
1. Is IPC-T5442T-ZE a good general purpose? I was also contemplating using a bullet for the driveway
2. Seb when you say dual coverage, you mean one camera watching directly onto the other camera? For instance in my case, a back camera onto a tree in the backyard watching the back cameras?
3. Mat, what does each side of the garage mean, do you mean in my case the sides of the home?
4. I do agree that 5 is a bit less, maybe I can plan on adding 2/3 more onto sides. Which areas do you think I should add more?
 
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gbhalla said:
Thanks Seb and Mat. Quick follow up:
1. Is IPC-T5442T-ZE a good general purpose? I was also contemplating using a bullet for the driveway
2. Seb when you say dual coverage, you mean one camera watching directly onto the other camera? For instance in my case, a back camera onto a tree in the backyard watching the back cameras?
3. Mat, what does each side of the garage mean, do you mean in my case the sides of the home?
4. I do agree that 5 is a bit less, maybe I can plan on adding 2/3 more onto sides. Which areas do you think I should add more?
Click to expand...
 

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I see that Mat. And I think that is what Seb also says. Criss-cross right? Yes I will do it. That puts me to 6 cams. Thoughts on:

1. Is the IPC-T5442T-ZE a good model overall for my needs?
2. Back of the home coverage?
3. Seb do you mean securing the wire connecting areas with quality anti-moisture tapes?
 
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gbhalla said:
I see that Mat. And I think that is what Seb also says. Criss-cross right? Yes I will do it. That puts me to 6 cams. Thoughts on:

1. Is the IPC-T5442T-ZE a good model overall for my needs?
2. Back of the home coverage?
3. Seb do you mean securing the wire connecting areas with quality anti-moisture tapes?
Click to expand...

Hi @gbhalla

I'm not fully aware of your neighborhood and the approaches that can be taken to reach your home.

In most of the USA, the typical suburban home has the greatest threat from the street side thus I typically think a minimum of

2 cameras covering the driveway
2 cameras cover the front door area
1 camera on each side of the house
( 6 cameras total for this )

add

1-2 cameras if you need to cover the street ( parking on the street, or mail box on the street )
1-2 cameras if you want LPR cameras

I always recommend running one extra cat53/6 cable .. N+1 / N+1+ to the locations you identify.

If you can afford more, then I like each entrance covered into the home, and if you feel people can come to your backyard with little issues, a couple cameras covering the yard are also useful imho.
 
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Just a quick, crude, sketch but you get the idea -

Camera Layout.jpg

The network connector, RJ45, on a camera has a housing, gland, that helps to seal it from moisture. It's not perfect by any means and should be wrapped with self amalgamating tape, like Coax Seal, extending onto the cable at both ends for about an inch. The electrical tape, 3M 33+ or better, should then extend past the self amalgamating tape. That'll keep things pretty much water and air tight to preserve the connections.

2.8mm for a door, if mounted no higher than six or si and a half feet and facing out from the door area, is fine. A second might be a good idea to watch the package drop off area. Dahua makes a dual lens mini dome that is perfect for this kind of use. One of the few times a dome may be the preferred form factor.
 
Thanks a lot folks, Looney and Seb. Seb, I found this video, do you think this is related to what you are saying?

Here is another one:

Any waterproofing tutorial videos you recommend?

Also, Seb are you saying that the dual lens mini dome can capture both the package area and face of the person at the the door. What model is that?
 
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I see that. Thanks Seb. I will share an updated front arch. for my home. Any resources on things I need to be mindful of when it comes to hiding the wires as much as I can to avoid vandalism/wire tampering?
 
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You know your own neighborhood. I've only seen one incident of tampering with cameras and that has been in a "ghetto" style apartment building but it also resulted in the perp getting evicted and charged since he left such good video evidence. Usually people don't even notice the cameras let alone the wiring. It is always a good idea to hide the wiring as much as possible but not only for potential vandalism. There's the esthetics of the situation and cable can be easily degraded by sunlight, UV.

If you can access from the attic or basement that can work, snaking up from the basement inside the walls, or dropping out of the soffit and running down trim and running, snaking again, under vinyl siding. There's lots of tricks if you have vinyl siding. Brick and stucco are the hardest to deal with.
 
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I see, sure. Do folks here mostly install their cams themselves, I am looking to hire someone. Any places where I can get recommendations in my area? Or just call and ask basically?
 
A lot of us install our own cameras. The second choice is to hire a low voltage electrician to install the ethernet cables. Depending on where you live and the house complexity it can cost between $50 and $150 per drop. Low voltage electritions are the guys that install cable TV, satellite dished, old style phones, wired alarm system.

I would NOT buy my cameras from them. Also make sure they use the correct wire, or buy it your self and provide it to them.

Use only solid copper, AWG 23 or 24 ethernet wire. , no CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum)

=====================================
If you do not have a wired monitored alarm system, get that first
Cameras are for surveillance to get information for after the fact. Cameras are NOT a deterrent.
====================================
My house
1) the front door needs three cameras, one doorbell camera, one pointing at the package drop area, one pointing back to the front door.
2) the garage entrance Needs two cameras pointing out mounted no higher than the top of the garage door. To look for door checkers.
3) the inside of the garage need two cameras one point at the garage door and one point at the house entrance
4) each entrance to the house must be covered by a camera.
5) each camera must be covered by another camera, If i can destroy a camera it must be covered, recorded by another camera.
6) in my house all public areas inside are covered, kitchen, living room, dining room, halls, game room, den
7) all outside doors are covered by a camera inside, pointing out.

I live next to a very big city in a nice suburban neighborhood. We have had a drive by shooting (missed) and one break-in with the murder of an elderly woman in the last year. Have had no trouble in the last 25 years. I still need more cameras mostly CAR and LPR.
==================================
 
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I see thanks Seb. Does this photograph look ok, so two cams (vari focal turrets) on either side of the garage criss-cross? I am guessing this will be wired through the attic then? Ate those too high you folks feel? I may have to put them next so soffit to access the atttic cleanly.
 

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If you can get them down to the top of the door that would be good. Also if you park in the drive way at night place a camera between the garage door. I have my cameras point most out and they cross at the end of the driveway. You are looking to identify door checkers. It depends on the neighborhood

Test do not guess.

use a test mount to verify the camera mount location. a 5gallon bucket of rocks and a 2x4. My test rig: rev.2
verify your camera placement, have a friend wearing a hoodie, ball cap and sunglasses looking down approach the house, can you identify them at night ?
(Looney2ns)If you want to be able to ID faces, don't mount cams higher than 7ft. You want to know who did it, not just what happened.
 
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my two cents on camera placement:
I learned the hardway of just slapping up cameras without the thought of catching faces. I just wanted a wide field of view to see if someone is poking around. What happens if a person is poking around? You then want to see the face to attempt facial ID for the police! I didn't think of that 2nd part. So all my cameras I initially bought were 2.8mm wide field of view.
Varifocal will cover all your needs, especially the 5442 series. Can do upto 30mm or 60mm varifocals for that long distance 100'-300'.
PTZ's are also a valid option to consider for your camera arsenal due to their tracking and zooming abilities.
Everyone above mentions great advice. The only thing I'll say is try to put your mindset inside of a burglar/intruder. Which way seems easiest for this person to approach? Is there lighting somewhere out there that may influence the person's apprach? Which area is most critical to you?

Looking at your two pictures:
1.) the northern side of your house has a much larger yard area than south. Does this look more attractive pathway for a intruder?
2.) I would put 4 cameras on the front.
#1 - pointing 45 degrees southeast from south-garage-corner. Center of image would be the beginning of your property / end of your neighbor's driveway along that sidewalk. Set around 6'-7' high to catch a person's face as they approach your property with head held high (hopefully, the perp does not enter 'burglary' mode yet at this point so is not ducking/hiding face with baseball hat). Main duty: facial ID of folks on the south sidwalk walking into your area from afar.
#2 - pointing almost straight north from the north-garage-corner to where your map picture starts with the sidewalk. Same philosophy. Though a greater distance for a 12mm Varifocal so may have to center image to a closer position than directly north. My concern would be the big yard area between the houses and the mindset of a intruder. Looks more inviting than the southern side. main duty: facial ID of folks on the north sidewalk entering your domain from afar.
#3 - Here is the tricky part. Sure, a single camera could be centerline of driveway for a general overview but will be placed above the 8'-9' garage door structure (not so great for facial ID and would have to cover a wide area). Works for many folks. I went the extra UMPH. Gots a 3.6mm 5442 centerline at the 9' mark. Plus, 2 more older 5231 cameras left & right side driveway at the 5' mark (these are 100% B&W at night but still super duper). The 5' high cameras main duty are facial ID's. Centerline 5442 main duty is to see what the intruder is doing and possibly catch a facial ID. Sometimes, I have visitors in my 2 car wide driveway. If I just had centerline, someone could sneak along the side of a vehicle and I wouldn't be able to catch the facial ID or other information. This is solved with the 3 camera setup.
#4 - if can afford it, top off your front with a PTZ that covers all bases. Dahua SD4 series is the best bang for your buck with auto-tracking. Later series can do full color and other bells/whistles but with bigger price tag. The standard cameras would act as spotter cameras for the PTZ (meaning, if a standard camera triggers, the PTZ will react to the same area and start auto-tracking).

3.) Sides. 1 at the corner of north-west-rear of house to watch over the north house wall and that big yard area. 1 at the corner of south-west of house to catch stretch of yard between you and southern neighbor.
4.) Rear. Gotta keep in mind that there is usually a patio door back here. A nice bullseye for an intruder. Or a shed full of tools & tractors, or even a pool. You do the criss-cross method as mentioned above by others. And a general centerline camera right above the patio door (this could be a 2.8mm as wide field of view).

If you can not do all these cameras at once, go piece meal. Pick critical areas to cover and purchase additional cameras later.

For weather proofing, I use dielectric grease for any outside connection and I throw on 4" piece of 1" shrink tube over the entire connection. Here in northen Nevada, we get 60+mph gusts of wind with rain/snow. I like the extra protection.

I am one of the rare ones that have cameras on the inside. One camera in the kitchen with primary focus on patio doo. One camera in living room with primary focus on front door. One camera looking down my 2 story stairwell and top landing. 3 cameras in my garage workshop (I have 4k ones in here for specific purposes). Not concerned about running around in my birthday suit, neither are any visitors. These inside cameras were the first cameras I bought from Andy...4231-ASE 's? When I upgrade to 5231's, didn't want to get rid of these so repurposed them for inside duty. But, best check with wife on this. I think I heard that married couples do romantic things all across the house at specific monthly intervals. I find that hard to believe but hay...that's why I am a bachelor :) The point being, if someone gets into my house...I kinda want to see what they are doing or not doing.

For front doorbell camera, I opted for the Dahua VTO villa intercom. It has a 720p main camera (should be 1080p but that's a different story). It does it's job for what it was built for. With the added benefit of intercoming VTH remote terminals through out the house. I do wood working in my garage. When someone hits my doorbell when I have a loud tablesaw running with my ear muffs on, the Dahua VTO alerts the remote VTH in the garage. I plan to incorporate this into Home Assistant (home automation) so that a light bulb blinks as well. I initially used the infamouse Looney boobie cam (dual camera) which worked fantastic for the 2 different camera angles. That has also been repurposed to my workshop.

Lastly, as mentioned above...cameras will show you what was broken into when you wake up the morning after. This is important to understand. It's not a magical "this will stop them for sure!". However, since you are going for the Vista alarm panel, you get extra benefits. Through the alarm panel IP network card (optional card that you buy), and if you get into Home Assistant (or other home automation software)...you can get notified while at home within 1 second if a human has been triggered from any camera or any alarm system component (outdoor PIR, front door sensor) and have all your cameras displayed on your bedroom smart TV. If interested in that, I can help but it's a little bit too much to get into since you are just starting out :) Mind you, Blue Iris software can also notifiy you via text message & picture or other ways to your smartphone when you are at work or grocery shopping.
 
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