New to BI and looking to dive in

[NoDak]

little background. started with some ring floodlights, decided after a while i didnt care for the monthly/yearly fee and replaced with eufy floodlight cams. 1 of 3 eufy floodlights died, decided to try out a amcrest floodlight cam. its ok but the color temp is only 3k which clashes with my eufy 5k color temp floods. bought an annual BI after playing with it during the 15 day trial and upgraded to 1yr paid. now that i have this amcrest setup on wifi, realized i need to move to a wired format and better camera's. decided to run a powerline outlet to the location of the amcrest flood for a future when i can install a wired eth line camera (and no i cant run a proper cat-6a line to this location without significant cost (due to ND winters, the attic blown in insulation is waist deep to be trodding thru to run lines to the basement).

the only question somewhat is what brand to go with, i am leaning toward dahua varifocal with hikvision 2nd. if going with dahua what turret camera should i go with? i am partial to going with higher than 1920x1080 2mp camera since the amcrest video quality doesnt seem to get me there.

i am guessing going with a 4mp or 8mp turret camera that has as least 1-way audio (2-way would be awesome but not a deal breaker). i am not adverse to poe camera's as i can always get an injector (i am having an outlet put in next to the current floodlight to power an injector and powerline adapter since i will be having another mount installed above the current floodlight location and replacing the current eufy/amcrest floodlights with plain jane flood lights to light the area for the dahua turret cams. the floodlights will be on from dusk to dawn and 5k led to cover a 3-car garage parking pad.

i am not above buying the camera's via ipcamtalk (prefer not to buy outside usa entity, B&H, newegg is also good) store but not sure which ones to get and i need a wall mount to go with it. dahua website shows many different wall mounts but i would prefer the type show or close to it.


and if you are wondering i am using netgear powerline 2000 adapters (PLP2000). tried the powerline 1200 but was only getting about 56 mbps (ookla speedtest) (7-8 MBps file transfer) and the powerline 2000 (114 mbps speedtest) (14-20 MBps file transfer).

thanks for any and all feedback.

 

[Rob2020]

the only question somewhat is what brand to go with,

I went with rebranded Dahua (Loryta/Empire Tech) from Amazon (or direct from Ali Empire Tech overseas if you prefer) and I am very happy. Empire Tech is having a Memorial Day Sale, this would be a good time to pick up one or two to get your feet wet with Dahua.

Hard to go wrong with a 2MP Varifocal to start (2231 or 3241). The Loryta IPC-T5442TM-AS is also a solid choice, very good value and performance.

 

[sebastiantombs]

Don't chase megapixels, chase sensor size instead. A 1/2.8" sensor in a 2MP camera will perform pretty well at night. If that same sensor is 4MP and still a 1/2.8" it won't perform well at night. A 1/1.8 sensor on a 4MP camera performs well at night but that same size sensor on an 8MP won't perform well at night. You can find 8MP cameras with larger sensors but bring your checkbook, left arm and first born young. Also keep in mind that cameras mounted higher than seven feet will not produce video that allows identification unless it's a longer view and has a big enough focal length. As an example, with a 2.8mm lens the subject needs to be within less than 15 feet to get a good ID shot and that assumes the camera is mounted at or lower than seven feet.

Best bet is to buy one varifocal camera and use a test rig, as described in the Cliff Notes in the Wiki, to test each location you plan on having a camera. The varifocal will allow you to determine what size fixed lens might work instead which can save you a few bucks on each camera. Have someone walk around playing "bad guy", with a hoodie or baseball cap, and see if you can actually identify them both day and at night. When you can do that you're got the right location, height and focal length.

I'll second Andy at EmpireTech. I just ordered a camera from him on Sunday evening, a 5442T-ZE 4MP varifocal, and it arrived on Thursday from Hong Kong. It's been on the test bench, I always do a burn-in prior to installing cameras, since Thursday evening. His service in excellent and he works with expert members here and Dahua engineers to work out firmware kinks. The result is that we, IPCT members, get basically customized firmware plus he gets firmware before it gets posted on the Dahua site.

I have a few 3241T-ZAS, 2MP varifocal, and they are excellent 2MP cameras without a doubt and have built-in audio. I also have a few of the 5442 series, both fixed focus and varfocals, and they are also excellent cameras albeit more expensive.

3241T-ZAS Review

Review-OEM IPC-T3241-ZAS 2mp AI Lite series Varifocal

IPC-T3241-ZAS from EMPIRETECANDY 2MP WDR Turret Varifocal AI Network Camera Review unit courtesy of Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) in exchange for a fair and honest review. Purchase in the IPCT Store Andy's ipcamtalk vendor forum: link Andy's AliExpress store: link Andy's Amazon store: link Price...

ipcamtalk.com

Review - Loryata (Dahua OEM) IPC-T5442T-ZE varifocal Turret

Review-OEM Loryta IPC-T5442T-ZE Varifocal 4mp camera (Dahua)

IPC-T5442T-ZE Varifocal from @EMPIRETECANDY 4MP WDR Turret Varifocal Network Camera Review unit courtesy of Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) in exchange for a fair and honest review. Andy's ipcamtalk store: link Andy's AliExpress store: link Andy's Amazon store: link Price Approximately US $200.00...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[NoDak]

Don't chase megapixels, chase sensor size instead. A 1/2.8" sensor in a 2MP camera will perform pretty well at night. If that same sensor is 4MP and still a 1/2.8" it won't perform well at night. A 1/1.8 sensor on a 4MP camera performs well at night but that same size sensor on an 8MP won't perform well at night. You can find 8MP cameras with larger sensors but bring your checkbook, left arm and first born young. Also keep in mind that cameras mounted higher than seven feet will not produce video that allows identification unless it's a longer view and has a big enough focal length. As an example, with a 2.8mm lens the subject needs to be within less than 15 feet to get a good ID shot and that assumes the camera is mounted at or lower than seven feet.

Best bet is to buy one varifocal camera and use a test rig, as described in the Cliff Notes in the Wiki, to test each location you plan on having a camera. The varifocal will allow you to determine what size fixed lens might work instead which can save you a few bucks on each camera. Have someone walk around playing "bad guy", with a hoodie or baseball cap, and see if you can actually identify them both day and at night. When you can do that you're got the right location, height and focal length.

I'll second Andy at EmpireTech. I just ordered a camera from him on Sunday evening, a 5442T-ZE 4MP varifocal, and it arrived on Thursday from Hong Kong. It's been on the test bench, I always do a burn-in prior to installing cameras, since Thursday evening. His service in excellent and he works with expert members here and Dahua engineers to work out firmware kinks. The result is that we, IPCT members, get basically customized firmware plus he gets firmware before it gets posted on the Dahua site.

I have a few 3241T-ZAS, 2MP varifocal, and they are excellent 2MP cameras without a doubt and have built-in audio. I also have a few of the 5442 series, both fixed focus and varfocals, and they are also excellent cameras albeit more expensive.

3241T-ZAS Review

Review-OEM IPC-T3241-ZAS 2mp AI Lite series Varifocal

IPC-T3241-ZAS from EMPIRETECANDY 2MP WDR Turret Varifocal AI Network Camera Review unit courtesy of Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) in exchange for a fair and honest review. Purchase in the IPCT Store Andy's ipcamtalk vendor forum: link Andy's AliExpress store: link Andy's Amazon store: link Price...

ipcamtalk.com

Review - Loryata (Dahua OEM) IPC-T5442T-ZE varifocal Turret

Review-OEM Loryta IPC-T5442T-ZE Varifocal 4mp camera (Dahua)

IPC-T5442T-ZE Varifocal from @EMPIRETECANDY 4MP WDR Turret Varifocal Network Camera Review unit courtesy of Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) in exchange for a fair and honest review. Andy's ipcamtalk store: link Andy's AliExpress store: link Andy's Amazon store: link Price Approximately US $200.00...

ipcamtalk.com

1. i will have dedicated floodlights on during dusk to dawn, low light isnt the issue. issue is during the day the amount of traffic.
2. current floodlight is at about 7ft on south side and 7.5ft on north side, going to have another mount installed above those to either mount the camera or floodlights
3. not too concerned about id as we dont get much foot traffic in the area except people in the subdivision walking a dog or excercising (in a closed subdivision shaped like an eye bolt, 1 entry into or out). only have had 1 incident personally in 14yrs and that was just a guy climbing my 7ft wood fence to get away from the police.
4. if the 2mp are better video quality than this amcrest at 2mp/1920x1080 then i am not too concerned, right now the image quality isnt that great pushing roughly 6.5mbps on avg (peaks at 7) wifi and thats with the camera set to do 30fps@6144kbps@30iframe@h264 direct to disk
5. i dont mind lowering the fps down to 20 but i have the storage (2tb nvme) to do continuous record at 30fps at the best quality
6. not too concerned with packages getting stolen as i have most either held or my work is very generous in letting me take paid time off to go home for deliveries.
7. running a dedicated win 10 machine with 32gb ram, i7-9700k with 250gb nvme boot and 2tb nvme data drive with a 10gb nic from my unifi 10gb switch, so i am not hurting for bandwidth once i go wired on the camera's

i am hoping the 4mp varifocal camera's will at least give me a better image quality than what i have now cause its lacking with this amcrest unless this floodlight just has a crappy image sensor.

 

[sebastiantombs]

Writing to a SSD drive of any type with video isn't the best idea and 2TB isn't much space if you record continuously. Don't be so sure about the floodlights supplying enough light Get a varifocal and test to be sure. As @SouthernYankee always says "test, do not guess". 30fps is a waste of space. This is surveillance not a Hollyweird production. Unless you're providing entertainment that you're making money from 15fps is more than enough, may even 20. Heck, Hollyweird uses 24fps, not 30fps. From what you're saying the cameras aren't providing a good image, high frame and bit rates won't fix that. You mention frame and bit rate but not the sensor size and that's the critical number.

In terms of ID, what you are basically saying is that you want overview only and, should something happen, don't care that you won't be able to identify who did what.

 

[NoDak]

Don't chase megapixels, chase sensor size instead. A 1/2.8" sensor in a 2MP camera will perform pretty well at night. If that same sensor is 4MP and still a 1/2.8" it won't perform well at night. A 1/1.8 sensor on a 4MP camera performs well at night but that same size sensor on an 8MP won't perform well at night. You can find 8MP cameras with larger sensors but bring your checkbook, left arm and first born young. Also keep in mind that cameras mounted higher than seven feet will not produce video that allows identification unless it's a longer view and has a big enough focal length. As an example, with a 2.8mm lens the subject needs to be within less than 15 feet to get a good ID shot and that assumes the camera is mounted at or lower than seven feet.

Best bet is to buy one varifocal camera and use a test rig, as described in the Cliff Notes in the Wiki, to test each location you plan on having a camera. The varifocal will allow you to determine what size fixed lens might work instead which can save you a few bucks on each camera. Have someone walk around playing "bad guy", with a hoodie or baseball cap, and see if you can actually identify them both day and at night. When you can do that you're got the right location, height and focal length.

I'll second Andy at EmpireTech. I just ordered a camera from him on Sunday evening, a 5442T-ZE 4MP varifocal, and it arrived on Thursday from Hong Kong. It's been on the test bench, I always do a burn-in prior to installing cameras, since Thursday evening. His service in excellent and he works with expert members here and Dahua engineers to work out firmware kinks. The result is that we, IPCT members, get basically customized firmware plus he gets firmware before it gets posted on the Dahua site.

I have a few 3241T-ZAS, 2MP varifocal, and they are excellent 2MP cameras without a doubt and have built-in audio. I also have a few of the 5442 series, both fixed focus and varfocals, and they are also excellent cameras albeit more expensive.

3241T-ZAS Review

Review-OEM IPC-T3241-ZAS 2mp AI Lite series Varifocal

IPC-T3241-ZAS from EMPIRETECANDY 2MP WDR Turret Varifocal AI Network Camera Review unit courtesy of Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) in exchange for a fair and honest review. Purchase in the IPCT Store Andy's ipcamtalk vendor forum: link Andy's AliExpress store: link Andy's Amazon store: link Price...

ipcamtalk.com

Review - Loryata (Dahua OEM) IPC-T5442T-ZE varifocal Turret

Review-OEM Loryta IPC-T5442T-ZE Varifocal 4mp camera (Dahua)

IPC-T5442T-ZE Varifocal from @EMPIRETECANDY 4MP WDR Turret Varifocal Network Camera Review unit courtesy of Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) in exchange for a fair and honest review. Andy's ipcamtalk store: link Andy's AliExpress store: link Andy's Amazon store: link Price Approximately US $200.00...

ipcamtalk.com

was thinking the

IPC-T2831T-ZS 8MP Starlight Lite Varifocal IP Camera,
IPC-T2231T-ZS 2MP Starlight Turret Varifocal IP Camera (rob2020 suggestion),
IPC-T3241T-ZAS 2MP Lite AI IR Vari-Focal Eyeball IP Camera (your suggestion)


but if you folks think the 2mp is just as good image quality wise then i can go with that. not like i havent wasted enough on ring/eufy/amcrest floodlights as is now.

 

[sebastiantombs]

Here's a screen capture from a 3241 of minute ago and it's dark outside. There is a street light about 200 feet behind the camera which give it a little light. The actual video does show "noise" from the gain ramping up and it will be switched to B&W by the Dahua Sunrise/Sunset utility probably before I finish posting this.

 

[NoDak]

Writing to a SSD drive of any type with video isn't the best idea and 2TB isn't much space if you record continuously. Don't be so sure about the floodlights supplying enough light Get a varifocal and test to be sure. As @SouthernYankee always says "test, do not guess". 30fps is a waste of space. This is surveillance not a Hollyweird production. Unless you're providing entertainment that you're making money from 15fps is more than enough, may even 20. Heck, Hollyweird uses 24fps, not 30fps. From what you're saying the cameras aren't providing a good image, high frame and bit rates won't fix that. You mention frame and bit rate but not the sensor size and that's the critical number.

In terms of ID, what you are basically saying is that you want overview only and, should something happen, don't care that you won't be able to identify who did what.

ok that puts things into a different perspective, but the nvme drives are just wasting space as it is (i installed new nvme drives in my new main desktop) and this single camera isnt using much space as is it. maybe 1gb per 30 min chunk right now and the nvme is only at 9tb written in the last 2yrs and maxes at 1200tbw. and i have it set to move to stored (nas) after 7 days or 500gb

as far as id, it would be nice, but if they want it when we are not home, not going to worry about it since insurance will cover it. and if they try while we are home, well self defense is pretty easy to come by

edit: wanted to add, in the last few days, the tbw has only increased by .2 tb written doing continous record to disk at 1920x1080.

 

[NoDak]

-->

looking at the specs between the 3 camera's i listed they all have the same image sensor specs except the MP range is different. unless i am looking at the wrong specs for each camera

IPC-T2831T-ZS 8MP Starlight Lite Varifocal IP Camera,

• Lens Type:Motorized vari-focal
• Mount Type:φ14
• Focal Length:2.7 mm–13.5 mm
• Max. Aperture:F1.5
• Field of View: Pan: 113°–31°；Tilt: 58°–17°；Diagonal: 138°–36°
• Iris Type:Fixed
• Close Focus Distance:0.8 m–0.8 m (2.62 ft–2.62 ft)

IPC-T2231T-ZS 2MP Starlight Turret Varifocal IP Camera (rob2020 suggestion),

• Lens Type: Motorized vari-focal
• Mount Type: φ14
• Focal Length: 2.7 mm–13.5 mm
• Max. Aperture: F1.5
• Field of View: Horizonal: 109°–28°; Vertical: 57°–16°; Diagonal: 131°–33°
• Iris Type: Fixed aperture
• Close Focus Distance: 0.8 m–0.8 m (2.62 ft–2.62 ft)

IPC-T3241T-ZAS 2MP Lite AI IR Vari-Focal Eyeball IP Camera (your suggestion)

• Lens Type:Motorized vari-focal
• Mount Type:φ14
• Focal Length:2.7 mm–13.5 mm
• Max. Aperture:F1.5
• Field of View:Horizontal: 108°–28°；Vertical: 57° –16° ；Diagonal: 130° –33°
• Iris Type:Fixed aperture
• Close Focus Distance:0.8 m (2.6 ft)

 

[sebastiantombs]

Yes, and as I said earlier and 2MP camera will outperform an 8MP camera with the same sensor size at night. In this case it would take roughly four times as much light for the 8MP to produce a good night image compared to the 2MP. There are four times as many pixels on the sensor of the 8MP versus the 2MP. That means each pixel receives roughly 1/4 the amount of light in the 8MP when compared to the 2MP. Don't chase megapixels, chase sensor size. Actually, the sensor in the 2231 and 3241 is .05 smaller than the 2831, just a tiny bit, but again the performance of the 8MP in low light won't be anywhere nearly as good.

 

[NoDak]

@sebastiantombs

unless i need to look at

IPC-T2831T-ZS 8MP Starlight Lite Varifocal IP Camera,

• Image Sensor:1/2.7” 8Megapixel progressive CMOS
• Effective Pixels:3840 (H) × 2160 (V)
• RAM/ROM:256 MB/128 MB
• Scanning System: Progressive
• Electronic Shutter Speed:Auto/Manual 1/3 s–1/100,000 s
• Min. Illumination:0.008 Lux@F1.5
• IR Distance:40 m (131.23 ft)
• IR On/Off Control:Auto/Manual
• IR LEDs Number:2
• Pan/Tilt/Rotation Range: Pan: 0°–360°；Tilt: 0°–78°；Rotation: 0°–360°

IPC-T2231T-ZS 2MP Starlight Turret Varifocal IP Camera (rob2020 suggestion),

• Image Sensor: 1/2.8” 2Megapixel progressive CMOS
• Effective Pixels: 1920 (H) × 1080 (V)
• ROM: 128 MB
• RAM: 128 MB
• Scanning System: Progressive
• Electronic Shutter Speed: Auto/Manual 1/3 s–1/100000 s
• Min. Illumination: 0.002 Lux@F1.5
• IR Distance: 40 m (131.23 ft)
• IR On/Off Control: Auto/Manual
• IR LEDs Number: 2
• Pan/Tilt/Rotation Range: Horizonal: 0°–355°; Vertical: 0°–78°; Rotation: 0°–360°

IPC-T3241T-ZAS 2MP Lite AI IR Vari-Focal Eyeball IP Camera (your suggestion)

• Image Sensor: 1/2.8” 2 Megapixel progressive CMOS
• Effective Pixels:1920 (H) ×1080 (V)
• RAM/ROM:256 MB/128 MB
• Scanning System: Progressive
• Electronic Shutter Speed:Auto/Manual 1/3 s–1/100000 s
• Minimum Illumination:0.002 Lux@F1.5
• IR Distance:40 m (131.2 ft)
• IR On/Off Control:Auto/Manual
• IR LEDs Number:2 (IR LEDs)
• Pan/Tilt/Rotation Range:Horizontal: 0°–360°; vertical: 0°–78°; rotation: 0°–360°

 

[NoDak]

@sebastiantombs

so if the image sensor is 1/2.8 @ 2mp will be more effective than the one at 1/2.7 @ 8mp?

 

[NoDak]

and here i though i had read enough to understand stuff to make an informed decision. spent like the last 2 week going thru the wiki posts and general forums posts to glean info and still woefully behind on info

 

[sebastiantombs]

Definitely. To get the equivalent performance in 4MP it takes a sensor size of 1/1.8. to get similar performance in an 8MP it would take a 1" or so. They are available, but bring your wallet, left arm and first born young.

 

[NoDak]

Definitely. To get the equivalent performance in 4MP it takes a sensor size of 1/1.8. to get similar performance in an 8MP it would take a 1" or so. They are available, but bring your wallet, left arm and first born young.

ok thanks guess i learned something that i didnt glean from all the posts the last 2 weeks. that part about the image sensor size would need to go down in value (bigger) would offset the increase in MP which i never quite caught in readings

 

[NoDak]

@sebastiantombs

so now its down to either

IPC-T2231T-ZS 2MP Starlight Turret Varifocal IP Camera (rob2020 suggestion),
IPC-T3241T-ZAS 2MP Lite AI IR Vari-Focal Eyeball IP Camera (your suggestion)

and then decide what extra features i want between the two.

 

[sebastiantombs]

Look for the reviews here on any camera you're thinking of buying. Most include motion video during daylight and at night so you'll see what the camera can actually do. The still shots mean nothing. I can take a 1/3", 4MP, camera and make it look like daylight even on an overcast night at midnight by playing with exposure time, but put motion in the scene and you're lucky to even be able to see the motion let alone make out what happened or who did it. I think we want cameras to work well during the day, but it's at night when things get critical.

The major difference between the two is that the 3241 has a built-in microphone while the 2231 does not.

 

[NoDak]

Look for the reviews here on any camera you're thinking of buying. Most include motion video during daylight and at night so you'll see what the camera can actually do. The still shots mean nothing. I can take a 1/3", 4MP, camera and make it look like daylight even on an overcast night at midnight by playing with exposure time, but put motion in the scene and you're lucky to even be able to see the motion let alone make out what happened or who did it. I think we want cameras to work well during the day, but it's at night when things get critical.

The major difference between the two is that the 3241 has a built-in microphone while the 2231 does not.

thanks for the education and the time and patience in helping me.

greatly appreciate it.

 

[sebastiantombs]

That's how I learned, too, and why this board is here. I don't think I'm an expert by any means but I think I have wasted enough money finding out my preconceived notions were wrong when it comes to IP camera systems today.

 

[NoDak]

@sebastiantombs
i am trying to look up more detailed specs and i am guessing these are the dahua branded versions of the ones listed in the store?

IPC-T2231T-ZS 2MP Starlight Turret Varifocal IP Camera (rob2020 suggestion),
dahua model # : IPC-HDW2231T-ZS-S2


IPC-T3241T-ZAS 2MP Lite AI IR Vari-Focal Eyeball IP Camera (your suggestion)
dahua model # : IPC-HDW3241T-ZAS

reason i am asking is too look up operating temps as it gets really cold up here, some times in the -40F range