looney2ns
IPCT Contributor
Probably your only choice is Axis, get out your backup check book.
New user trying to figure out an affordable POE-based Blue Iris system that doesn't use companies like Dahua, Hikvision or Reolink
- Thread starter ipcdal
- Start date
OK. I gotta bite on this one....Without getting into the politics, this isn't about Chinese companies in general. Two of the companies mentioned (Dahua and Hikvision) produce well-reviewed products as I've read about in these and other forums, and they are the OEMs of many other recommended brands out there too, so they are obvious good starter choices for someone like me, however, they've both been involved in some things that I personally find have crossed the threshhold for me ethically, and I decided I would pass on them and choose another brand. This is a personal decision, and again I am avoiding a politcal discussion, and I respect that good people can have different opinions about such things. Nothing against anyone that is a proponent of those two brands and their OEM partners. I also acknowledge it's a complex issue, so there's no criticism of anyone who is a Dahua or Hikvision user or fan.
As for Reolink and similar brands, I decided not to go for them mainly because of the general and almost universal bad reviews in this forum. I figured I wouldn't waste my time on brands like that, and just try to find a brand that is in closer alignment with what I need. Not an easy task!
Hope that all makes sense and absolutely nothing personal. And thank you again for taking the time to help!
I do get it. I boycotted Sony for a decade+ after they put firmware rootkit spyware installers on the autoplay scripts within many of their movie and music discs. The CEO blew it off saying none of his customers would ever know or care about it. What an asshole. That crossed MY threshold, so I passed on all things Sony for over 10 years. I kinda chuckled when North Korea hacked their asses.... KARMA....LOL.
So--My question is this--- WHAT exactly have Dahua and Hikvision been "involved in" that is leading you to the same "will-not-buy" decision I made over the Sony rootkit crapola years ago? Like literally--- what did they do or what are they doing?
Your original post asked for alternatives. You did say "affordable," but in many cases outside of Dahua or Hikvision (Nelly's being the exception) it is difficult to find the costs of some of these systems. Case in point, one of the members here in another post referred to Vitek equipment and spoke favorably about them. They claim to be NDAA compliant and they sell pre-packaged kits. Pricing, however, is not on their website. You would need to find a dealer or professional who can quote you prices. The upshot is I have no idea of their quality or their pricing. The value proposition is entirely opaque, by their own design. Still, you asked for alternatives and this may be one. Link to their website here -> Packages: IP Surveillance Kits - VITEK IVP, Inc.
BTW, if you research them further, please report back and let us know what you find.
Flintstone61
Known around here
How timely that a user would show up (new) right after the big go around with John IPVM with a pretend problem that we have to solve for him. Fuck that shit.
Thank you for the info, will check those out! Quick search confirms your price issues, but maybe they make a "consumerish" model too.
sebastiantombs
Known around here
Just be aware that generally Axis is a generation or two behind with technology/abilities/features and at a premium price.
I totally understand your position on Sony, and in recent years I've tried to pay more attention to what a company does -- and how it handles it when wrongdoings are discovered. And I try to make more informed purchasing decisions that are in alignment with my personal values. And again, there's a whole lot of gray, I'm not criticising anyone here in this forum. We could easily turn this thread into a list of companies that we probably both agree on that have done some shady things, or downright awful things, and even then we might have a different threshold of what we're willing to tolerate personally. We could also turn this thread into a giant political discussion, and I've been trying to avoid that, especially since it's clear there are a lot of people here who are passionate about it, and after all, I'm just trying to solve what I thought was a simple problem that has some personal constraints on my end and trying to be as respectful as possible. Plus I'm also a new user here so I don't want to wade in too deep to the political side here. Although on that note, I'm happy to see there's a lot of flexibility here with what kinds of discussions you allow, so hats off to the moderators for being open minded.
As for specific things that Dahua and Hikvision have been involved in, again, I want to avoid a political thing, and I don't care what administration banned who/what/where since every administration is going to be impacted by politics and have massive inconsistencies to whatever degree (again, a politlcal discussion), but in my own research and reading a number of different sources, I can't support Dahua and Hikvision because of their connection to Uyghur profiling alone. It goes beyond that, but let's just leave it at Uyghur profiling. It doesn't help their case that they are both partly state-owned, which gives no confidence that there will be meaningful accountability and real change any time soon. Again, I'll leave the politics out of it and just focus on the humanity side of it, and reiterate this isn't an anti-China bias. There are other Chinese companies that I feel fine about personally, have shown no connection to the Uyghur situation, and are not partly state-owned.
And again, nothing is black and white. I acknowledge that there are many factors here and many folks may feel passionately on one side or the other with regard to Dahua and Hikvision. These are very serious things and emotionally charged issues. In my case, what I've researched has crossed my personal threshold and I feel pretty good about searching for different camera providers. Hope that makes sense, and I don't mean to be soft on details, but they are easy to find, and I also don't want to derail the purpose of this thread, which is just to find some darn cameras that are "affordable" (in quotes given that I know I've now eliminated the two biggest sources of objectively affordable cameras), and meet my personal specs. Respect and cheers to all here, and continued thanks for your help finding cameras!
Yes, this is what I'm finding. It's not an easy task. But this thread has been very helpful. I plan on following up with Nelly's this week, and it appears that not only do they have NDAA compliant cameras, but I found this: NDAA Compliance Guide: Which Security Cameras Can You Install on Government Properties? -- which indicates down toward the second half of that page, that some of their R-Series cameras (which seems pretty affordable) might meet my needs too. Again, this is not an anti-China issue for me. See my prior post. So I'll call Nelly's this week, and also research the other companies that have been suggested. Looks like I have some options, although it's definitely doing to be at higher cost or reduced features, or both. And I don't mind some combination of that... just have to find the right balance. I'm happy with something simple, then I can build up to something fancier with time. Just as long as they work great with Blue Iris.
No connection to IPVM, don't know John. I'm a new user here, unrelated to anyone, any dealer, any company, I have no stake in any of these companies, and while I have read the IPVM posts, my own research includes other sources, and all I want to do is exactly what I set out to do in my original post -- and I just now need to find some cameras that meet certain specs for my personal use, which include a personal ethical variable that I've tried to be apolitical and also very respectful about. It's been a rabbit hole that I've been shocked to see is filled with so much confusion and misinformation, but it's also been an eye-opener for me. So now I just have a legit problem to solve, and I sincerely appreciate all the help here. Sorry for your skepticism, but there are indeed legit decent people who join forums sometimes. Cheers!
Thank you -- yes, I think I'm going to be compromising on features and cost here to reach my goal. The way it goes. Appears that Dahua and Hikvision had achieved a high level of features for a very low cost, so I can see how they dominated this market. I definitely get it now.
DanDenver
Getting comfortable
Talk about overthinking something. Fear based consumerism has a strong hold on this one Obi-Wan.
Overthinking is something I'm fairly good at, lol. But no fear-based consumerism going on here. And referencing Obi-Wan is ironic given that of all the fictional pop icon figures you could reference, he's a perfect example of an ethics-based heroic figure who opposes big government overreach and human rights violations, to put in our 2021 frame of reference. So he'd probably agree with me.
iwanttosee
Pulling my weight
I have a few 5MP SV3C cameras and I like them as they have ONVIF and RTSP which is what you need for BlueIris. They do phone home so I cut off their internet access by not giving them a gateway IP nor DNS.
Sebastiantombs thinks SV3C cameras are trash, but I'm ok with mine as I understand their limitation.
Sebastiantombs thinks SV3C cameras are trash, but I'm ok with mine as I understand their limitation.
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Thank you, will check them out! As far as "trash" goes, everyone has to balance their needs, which are all different, I get it. In my case, I realize I'll probably be getting something more expensive than I originally planned, or maybe something that someone else thinks is "trash." I don't know anything about SV3C, will check them out and find out who makes them. Appreciate the suggestion!
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iwanttosee
Pulling my weight
The SV3C cameras I have are made by IPCAM as their firmware worked on my SV3C cameras.
I'm pretty sure the one I recommended is made by them too.
sebastiantombs
Known around here
@iwanttosee 5MP on a 1/2.9" sensor is pretty weak at night unless there's a whole lot of ambient light, as in a baseball stadium. Out of curiosity what do the frame, iframe and bit rates look like when it's dark outside compared to what they are set for. Maybe they've given up a little control of that by now rather than trying to produce a wonderful still image that produces useless, blurred video.
iwanttosee
Pulling my weight
It maybe weak, but it picked up the motion of a cat and recorded it so that's good enough for my use. I have 9 motion sensor flood lights outside my home working together with my cameras. I think they deter potential thief and work well enough to ID a person.
If my goal was to ID make/model/license plate of a moving vehicle at night or even day time, than yes, I would agree SV3C is trash for that job.
If my goal was to ID make/model/license plate of a moving vehicle at night or even day time, than yes, I would agree SV3C is trash for that job.
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mat200
IPCT Contributor
- Jan 17, 2017
- 15,137
- 25,594
Hi @ipcdal
I see you've hit a hot topic .. as you can see lots of passionate folks here.
Nelly's Security - used to rebrand Hikvision iirc .. now another.
They're a good vendor by most who have recommended them here, so I would just check what they are offering for a black friday deal ..