New user trying to figure out an affordable POE-based Blue Iris system that doesn't use companies like Dahua, Hikvision or Reolink

[mat200]

fwiw - I try to understand the various sides of the issues, and there's always a lot of nuance ..

Always questions of where to draw the lines .. and it's very challenging to actually get solid factual data with the massive amount of noise.

I am a small player in this world, so my input makes little difference on this particular question, so I try to be less emotional about the topic.

 

[user8963]

in europe axis cameras are roughly the same price as dahua when buying from authorized seller. only some high end ptz models are priced higher than dahua competitors.

so when buying here from authorized seller i would may consider to choose axis if no need for any build in AI features..

Not sure about US, but seems always expensive as hell for anything which is "not" made in china..

I try to be less emotional

problem for all US citizen... this left bullshit might end in high prices which are not affordable for the average american.. and this will not end well for you all.

But extrme left retards like john or ipcdal (maybe the same person who knows) doesnt care. mostly they are wealthy so they dont care about the rest. Its just their wokeness which have to be now the thinking of everyone.
hope some kyles will do the job to build a better america

 

[tvbob]

Thank you! Hadn't thought of using ebay. I just checked out that model and found some great prices. Have you tried them with Blue Iris?

Yes I have a BI system using these cameras .

 

[sdkid]

Adding Bosch to the research list... Axis is current front-runner though. The primary "compromise" I think I'll have to make is cost. I'll just have to pay more, spread it out over time, start with fewer cameras, etc. But Axis is looking promising. Bosch refurbished has potential too. Saw some decent prices on ebay. More research to go, will post final decision hopefully trying to figure out this week so I can take advantage of Black Friday deals depending on what brand I go with.

• Axis
• Bosch
• Nelly's Security has two lines of NDAA compliant cameras:
  • Some of their Uniview models which are listed in a separate section on the Nelly's website under NDAA
  • Some of their R-Sieres cameras which are made by Raysharp -- specifically, the 2MP and 5MP models are NDAA compliant (and very affordable) but they did not list them under the NDAA compliant list for some reason
• Vitek
• Hanwha/Techwin
• SV3C (IPCAM)
• Samsung (specifically someone recommended SNV-6013, which looks like it's made by Hanwha-Techwin)

I thought a lot of Bosch were made by Dahua?

 

[user8963]

I thought a lot of Bosch were made by Dahua?

no they woke up and make their own cameras now.

 

[sebastiantombs]

I just hate to see someone waste time, effort, money and stomach acid over something this damn trivial. A few thousand dollars for cameras doesn't amount to more than a molecule in the ocean of money flowing around between CCP governed/owned manufacturers and makes zero difference. I waver between envy and just plain wonderment with your hell bent determination but still think you're wasting your time and effort on something that will have zero effect and be meaningless in the end in a vain attempt to assuage your own perceptions.

 

[SpacemanSpiff]

View attachment 108584

FRESH TRACKS! Where da lifts at?

 

[sdkid]

I just hate to see someone waste time, effort, money and stomach acid over something this damn trivial. A few thousand dollars for cameras doesn't amount to more than a molecule in the ocean of money flowing around between CCP governed/owned manufacturers and makes zero difference. I waver between envy and just plain wonderment with your hell bent determination but still think you're wasting your time and effort on something that will have zero effect and be meaningless in the end in a vain attempt to assuage your own perceptions.

yeah--- when I dumped Sony, I had dozens of alternative product brands to choose from at nearly identical prices-- or even cheaper sometimes.

 

[ipcdal]

in europe axis cameras are roughly the same price as dahua when buying from authorized seller. only some high end ptz models are priced higher than dahua competitors.

so when buying here from authorized seller i would may consider to choose axis if no need for any build in AI features..

Not sure about US, but seems always expensive as hell for anything which is "not" made in china..



problem for all US citizen... this left bullshit might end in high prices which are not affordable for the average american.. and this will not end well for you all.

But lefties like john or ipcdal (maybe the same person who knows) doesnt care. mostly they are wealthy so they dont care about the rest. Its just their wokeness which have to be now the thinking of everyone.
hope some kyles will done the job to build a better america

Love this post, love the assumptions, lots of judgment in this forum from some members.

 

[ipcdal]

I just hate to see someone waste time, effort, money and stomach acid over something this damn trivial. A few thousand dollars for cameras doesn't amount to more than a molecule in the ocean of money flowing around between CCP governed/owned manufacturers and makes zero difference. I waver between envy and just plain wonderment with your hell bent determination but still think you're wasting your time and effort on something that will have zero effect and be meaningless in the end in a vain attempt to assuage your own perceptions.

I do sincerely appreciate your perspective and time on this thread. We just see things differently. I think the conversation has been great and useful overall, with some fun accusatory assumptions as the side story. Overall, lots of info I've learned, and I'm grateful for the suggestions. The hand wringing about who is wasting their time is ironic, though. Apparently I'm wasting my time and effort on looking up this info, and perhaps some other guys here are wasting their time telling me I'm wasting my time.

 

[icpilot]

And honestly the more I read about some of these companies and some of their shady practices and background, the more frustrating this simple little search is becoming to me.

I'm literally almost to the point of considering rolling my own little simple camera systems and building a prototype on an Arduino-type or Raspberry Pi-type platform. I'm already starting to look at parts from places like Adafruit to see what might be possible and how much of a headache it would be. I do DIY simple projects on those kinds of platforms and it seems feasible to some degree of sanity, although a lot of hassle. Or maybe I might also look into a different way of bringing feeds into Blue Iris like using a bunch of little GoPro-type cameras and some streaming/capture devices. I know that all sounds potentially insane, and obviously a huge time sink with lots of technical challenges, but it could be a fun project I could work on with my son, and it sure won't have the typical security vulnerabilities or supply chain ethics considerations.

Anyway, this search is proving to be more difficult than I thought it would be.

Ethics has a way of doing that.

For a very long time I refused to purchase Toshiba products, after learning of their sale of secret US submarine propeller technology to Russia. It still irks me, a LOT. But I am typing this from a Toshiba laptop right now.

Since your focus is on Chinese companies, do you own Lenovo or Motorola equipment? Ever considered a OnePlus cellphone, often rated as the top value brand in the market? Do you use the TikTok app, or own a General Electric appliance? How about a Carrier mini-split air conditioner or a Hoover vacuum? Do you eat Smithfield meat products? How about watching a movie at AMC theaters?

My point, as you already know, is that it doesn't matter if you own those products. Fact is they are ubiquitous. And they are Chinese owned. Some of those products pose just as great, or greater, threat than Huawei or Dahua or Hikvision or DJI.

Far be it from me to try to influence your ethical stance. I once made the decision to never again buy Mobil gasoline. I worked on a large and successful contract for Mobil for several years, but became so disenchanted with them I refused to buy their products or derivatives for more than a decade. I even ran out of gas one day for that decision. Everyone needs to follow their own ethical compass.

For my part, I've considered the political influences affecting the US decision to hamper growth of Chinese companies. It would be naive to believe that America is NOT seeking to achieve or maintain technological superiority in some of the same fields the Chinese operate in. As you are discovering, entire industries seek to gain local/national advantage to create greater entry barriers to outsiders - particularly those who may have a technology or pricing advantage.

Further, with a son on active duty as an Officer of Marines, I am particularly sensitive to any security threats from the Chinese. While I recognize the threat from Dahua and Hik, it seems they are not any greater than other similar threats, AND, they can be mitigated simply enough.

FWIW ....

 

[ipcdal]

Thanks for your thoughts, @icpilot! Indeed it has been surprising to see how this IP camera market is so lopsided and filled with questionable products, it's worse than I imagined. In other areas that are down my lanes of expertise, I haven't seen this kind of lopsidedness and dominance by just a handful of state-owned Chinese companies. It's incredible. Maybe a harbinger of things to come.

At least in other areas that are part of my daily work, yes, there are numerous massive Chinese OEM manufacturers that fill the shelves with many famous brands attached to them, for example, and they have a huge market share, BUT they don't enjoy this kind of dominance. With IP cameras, it's quite amazing to see the lack of balance in the marketplace and supply chain.

In any case, ethics and politics aside, it is remarkable that the Chinese government has deployed a strategy that has been so overwhelmingly successful as to basically, effectively control an entire market, and of course this isn't the only one. For the purposes of this thread, seems like there are literally no low-cost decent alternatives for IP cameras anywhere else in the world that I can find.

So in my situation, the choices are becoming more clear for me. I'm 90% leaning to Axis right now, and I'm adjusting my timeline and budget to take it slow and deploy fewer cameras at first. That seems like it will work for me. I'm not done with my homework yet, but should be soon and make a decision.

Also, I'm kind of excited about doing a little DIY project too, will double as father-son bonding time and it will be a lot of fun. So my final system might be a mixture of Axis sprinkled with DIY stuff, at least that's how it's starting to make sense to me.

As for the larger issues, congrats to you for raising a son who is an active duty Marine, and thank you to your family for your service. The political situation is a mess IMO, very complex economic gamesmanship and statecraft going on with some of these bans, but there are real issues with some of these products, real threats mixed in with the FUD, and there's a real tragedy among the Uyghurs going on right now. This, and many other issues that matter to me personally, are part of my decision matrix.

I'm honestly surprised that some people here in this forum have associated my Uyghur concerns with and assumed that I must be among the "woke left" -- there are plenty of conservatives and libertarians who strongly condemned and backed sanctions against China on the Uyghur situation alone, including stronger words from the prior administration than the current. Many such issues are and should be universal, bipartisan, etc., but somehow I'm a "lefty" which cracks me up.

My impact on all that global mayhem and tragedy as an individual is obviously minuscule to non-existent, as others have rightly and perhaps cynically pointed out, but I believe we all contribute in tiny ways to the state of this political sewage in the world by our small actions. My intentions were not to stir up emotional reactions here in this, my only thread in this forum, but simply as an ethical consideration as part of the specs for some cameras. Did not expect it to be this bonkers.

Anyway, we're probably more in alignment than not, and thanks again for your thoughts.

EDIT: spelling, probably still missed some

 

[ipcdal]

Hey guys, want to say thank you again for your help -- I just spent some good time on the Axis website and reading many reviews, and I've decided to go with a gradual roll out of Axis cameras.

As I mentioned in my OP. I currently have a lousy Nest system and I'm going to phase that out over more time than I originally planned as I get my Axis system up and running with Blue Iris. Haven't decided on models of cameras yet, and I've had to increase my budget and calendar, unfortunately, but I'm pretty comfortable with the rough plan.

In addition to that I talked with my son and he seemed excited about doing a DIY security project with me too, so we'll start looking at that, and I'm going to have some fun making a simple Arduino- or RPI- based camera and sensor system too. Adafruit is my favorite parts store, and they've got some great dev boards, shields, hats, and feathers that will do the job. No idea if it will be any good, but it will be fun. Can't wait to see if we actually make something usable.

The things that pushed me over the edge to go with Axis, BTW, were the following:

• Good documentation on the site that's actually pretty well written IMO - it was refreshing to see actual intelligible documentation compared to other camera makers
• Good warranty
• Relatively long device support life, even for discontinued models
• Objectively good build quality
• Pretty good security track record and history of firmware updates
• Plus it fit my other ethical requirements, which are obviously important to me, which I don't need to repeat again
• And when I saw some good prices on ebay, I figured I wouldn't actually have to buy everything retail, so the cost is not outrageous... I will just have a scaled back system that will take more time to deploy

The downsides of Axis are basically:

• Increased cost compared to current value champions Dahua/Hik - no one can beat Dahua/Hik for price/performance ratio
• Fewer features/lower tech specs in general than competing Chinese cameras

I'm fine with the trade-offs, all things considered. And when I factor in cost, I think it's worth the cost difference TBH.

As for the other brands that were on my consideration list, there really is no "perfect" brand, as we all agree, so I'd have to decide on other types of compromises, but my runner up was going with Bosch, followed by Nelly's Security and their NDAA compliant cameras. The compromise there was to accept that Uniview does still have some models that use tech from sources I don't want to support, however, points go to Uniview for their efforts in releasing NDAA compliant cameras, and it appears they are making more efforts to move in that direction. I could not confirm that though. The other possible options were Hanwha/Techwin (OEM to Samsung) and SV3C/IPCAM, but my research on them was cut short by my positive reaction to my Axis research.

Thanks again! It will probably take a while to roll this out, but I'll start with Black Friday and Ebay to see if I can score some deals on Axis cameras, and then slowly put it all together. Once I get something running I'm guessing I'll post about it again. Hopefully it will be a smooth process. Appreciate all the feedback and comments in this thread!

 

[iwanttosee]

Maybe you come here i TAKE you to Xinjiang to make a visit? I pay you all cost, and hire a Land Crusier ENJOY the beautiful landscape and local conditions, CCP will not kill you. Turst me bro.

Yeah, no. CCP just makes you disappear than force you to change your thinking and action. Ask Jack Ma.

 

[StevenFromTexas]

Made it to the end of the posts on this topic. Fortunately, the original poster has found someone to do business with. Someone lock this topic. Quick! Please! LOL