Newb needs help deciding on home IP Security system

[Pilotknob]

First of all, thanks for taking the time to check out this post. I'm looking at a 3 camera setup for my home to start with. A dome by the front door(2.8mm) and 2 4mm bullets for a driveway shot and back door/back yard shot. I don't know why, but I've been drawn to Hikvision. I've done quite a bit of research(here and elsewhere) so I am at least familiar with the "issues" with Chinese products, firmware bricking, etc. I'm looking for a plug and play solution.

I went to B&H and found a Hikvision package that I assembled for $923.

Hikvision 3MP Outdoor Dome Camera
B&H #HIDS2CD2132I • MFR #DS-2CD2132F-I-2.8MM

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$123.00
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Accessories

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  $17.99
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Item Total:$140.99


Hikvision DS-7608NI-E2/8P Embedded Plug & Play NVR with 2TB HDD
B&H #HIDS76088P2T • MFR #DS-7608NI-E2/8P-2TB

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$396.00
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Item Total:$448.00


Hikvision 3MP Outdoor Mini Bullet Camera
B&H #HIDS2CD2032 • MFR #DS-2CD2032-I-4MM

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$146.00
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Item Total:$333.98

I then went to Nelly's and assembled another package for $898.
NSC-214-DM 4MP WDR Fixed Dome IP Security Camera 2.8mm
Edit $149.99 $149.99 Remove Item

NSC-204-BT Outdoor HD 4MP IP Bullet Security Camera 4mm
Edit $149.99 $299.98 Remove Item

NSN-608-8P 8 Channel POE Plug N Play Hi Def NVR Recorder
NVR
1 x NSN-608-8P 8 Channel POE Plug N Play Hi Def NVR Recorder $299.99
Hard Drive 1
1 x 2 TB Surveillance Hard Drive for NVR or DVR $109.99
Edit $409.98 $409.98 Remove Item

50' Premade CAT5e IP Camera Network Cable
Edit $10.99 $21.98 Remove Item

100' Premade CAT5e IP Camera Network Cable
How are the NSC cameras? Which would be your choice and why? Thanks for your insight.

 

[fvhjof]

There is no need to take 3MP cameras (max resolution will give you 4:3 picture). If you want to use 16:9 picture 2MP is enough with 1920x1080 resolution. I would stick to new 2x25 cameras as they are better at night with EXIR light and pixel/CMOS size ratio.

 

[Pilotknob]

So what you're saying is 2MP would be plenty, and the 2X25 reference is to the model number of the Hikvision camera, correct? If so, would an International version of these cameras from AliExpress with an International version of an NVR be a good combination? Any experience or thoughts on the NSC brand from Nelly's?

 

[aristobrat]

It looks like the Hikvision 2x25 line of cameras have the bigger Sony Starvis sensor in them. The bigger sensor captures more photons per pixel, which can make a world of difference in low-light conditions. Dahua has been selling cameras with these for awhile now (their Starlight models). Hikvision seems to have recently started making them. I would absolutely recommend cameras with this new sensor in it.

I have a DS-2CD2132F-I-2.8MM on my front porch. I can't use it with the IR on because unless the dome is literally spotless, the IR reflects off of the dome and makes the image "foggy". Seems like anytime we get a big rainstorm, some drops will dry on the dome, and that's enough to screw mine up. Besides the reflection issue, domes have the ring of IR lights around the lens which can attract spiders and wind up with webs covering them them Turrets and bullets don't have those issues. I wanted a dome for the porch because I thought they looked the least obtrusive, but after a year with it, I'm going to replace with with a turret.

I planned on building a Hikvision system myself, but after spending time in the Dahua sub-forum here, I ended up getting one of their varifocal Starlight turrets. Feel in love with those. They have the new Sony sensor in them, so they look awesome at night. They're also varifocal, so you can set the lens anywhere from 2.7mm thru 12mm. Zoom it to whatever's perfect for where you have it mounted.

Here's a thread to the new Hik 2325 turret. I think it mentions specific Ali vendors used to order the cameras.
DS-2CD2325FWD-I 2MP Ultra-Low Light Network Turret Camera

Here's a link to what my Hik dome looks ike when the IR reflects when the dome isn't 100% clean:
#338

Regarding Nelly's stuff, I don't have any experience with it, but it seems like folks will post up now and then frustrated that they're stuck with the custom firmware on the devices.

Dahua has been making cameras with the new Sony sensors since late last year. Might be worth taking a look at the Dahus sub-forum here. It has a post pinned at the top that shows all of the Starlight models. Many have links to detailed reviews/owner threads. The varifocal turret sells like crazy. From last November unit a few weeks ago, as soon as vendors on AliExpress get them in stock, they'd sell out within an hour or two. There is one forum member (EMPIRETECANDY) who has a store on AliExpress and has sold what has to be thousands of Dahua cameras to forum members here. He's pretty active in the forums, giving updates on when he's getting batches from the Dahua factory, etc. Great guy to work with, although he does get bogged down from time to time.

 

[aristobrat]

To give you an example from the low-light cameras that have the larger Sony sensor in them, here's a shot from when I temporarily replaced the Hikvison dome on my porch with a varifocal Dahua Starlight turret (zoomed out to 2.7mm). The turret is aimed poorly here (pointed too high), but still a good example of how these cameras do in low-light situations.

If you compare this shot to the shots from the Hikvision dome (linked in the post above this), I think you'll see why folks are excited about these low-light cameras.

 

[Pilotknob]

Wow! Very imformative post. Thanks so much for posting this. The picture quality of the low light camera is amazing. I'm heading to the Dahua forum now. Thank you so much for your time.

 

[Pilotknob]

So, a setup like this would be a good start? This is the turret you were referring to, correct?

 

[fvhjof]

I've tried using new dome 8mp cameras and did not have any problems with blurry/foggy images at night with EXIR lights. The problem with flies/spiders/bugs will be the same for all cameras until you turn off IR light on camera and use external IR.

 

[aristobrat]

So, a setup like this would be a good start? This is the turret you were referring to, correct?

That should be a good start. I don't have any experience with that DVR (might be worth searching to see if there are some threads here on it), but those are the turrets that I use. There's a big review thread on them here, if you wanted to get more of a feel for how they work, etc.

I've tried using new dome 8mp cameras and did not have any problems with blurry/foggy images at night with EXIR lights. The problem with flies/spiders/bugs will be the same for all cameras until you turn off IR light on camera and use external IR.

Good to hear. I didn't have reflection problems initially, only whenever the dome had stuff get on the exterior.. the IR would reflect back off of that and cloud stuff up. Hikvision had troubleshooting steps to help eliminate that (mainly, move the foam collar that surrounds the lens out so that it makes good contact with the dome, so the lens never sees the IR being reflected), but that didn't help much. The camera I had was an older design, hopefully they've fixed that with the newer domes. Definitely with you regarding all IR attracting bugs/flies/etc, but I've only ever had spiders spin webs around my dome.

 

[R L]

Spend $35 on some fake cameras and put them up. Why bother with real one and the whole mess and expense it causes. What about the countess hours you WILL spend on this. Your house is insured, isn't it, against theft or intentional damage?
Same with your car?

So, who cares if you can identify the slime? If the Police catch him, do you really think this dirt bag is going to pay restitution to you? He ain't got a job. What about the stuff he stole from you? All gone, for sure.

Good luck

 

[Pilotknob]

There have been some shenanigans in the neighborhood. You're right. The things will be gone. I don't care about things. I DO care about my family's safety. And although "he ain't got a job", I would be glad to provide video to the police to help him go to "Camp Happiness". I exercise many rights that involve "self help". I will not be dissuaded. But thanks for taking the time to comment.

 

[fenderman]

Spend $35 on some fake cameras and put them up. Why bother with real one and the whole mess and expense it causes. What about the countess hours you WILL spend on this. Your house is insured, isn't it, against theft or intentional damage?
Same with your car?

So, who cares if you can identify the slime? If the Police catch him, do you really think this dirt bag is going to pay restitution to you? He ain't got a job. What about the stuff he stole from you? All gone, for sure.

Good luck

What an idiotic post..by that logic we should shut down this forum..have you not seen the countless footage that have lead to arrests? Insured? do you know what happens to your rates when you file a claim?
Pray tell why are you buying cameras as your other posts suggest?

 

[R L]

I do know what happens when you file a claim, I'm a homeowner. Yes, arrests are great. But, because of that arrest, is the merchandise returned to the owner? Does the bad person makes amends towards the homeowner or the owner of the property that was taken or damaged? I think not.

Let's not confuse catching a burglar after the crime, with getting reimbursed from that same burglar for damages and losses after he is caught. That just ain't happening. That's fantasy. Regardless, in any case, it makes NO difference whether the person responsible is arrested or not, in terms of filing an insurance claim.

And remember, if you did provide "evidence" (video footage) to the police, expect to be brought up on the stand when this dirt bag gets arrested and tried. I'm sure the defense attorney will grill you like no tomorrow as how YOU sent this camera system up, and all about it, all the specs. After all, it's YOUR evidence the Police made the arrest.. The perp might even get off as you crumble and stutter in the court of law against a defense attorney. Looking face to face to the guy who broke into your house and took your property? Hmmmm, your call. Bet he's be out within one year..maybe 2 months...Better get more cameras! He might have an ax to grind.

After careful thought, I'm not buying any "real" cameras for my property. Too much waste of MY time, energy and monies. Just a few fake ones, so the prep will go to the next house.

And hey, if the cameras make the owner "feel" safer, God speed!

 

[alastairstevenson]

But, because of that arrest, is the merchandise returned to the owner? Does the bad person makes amends towards the homeowner or the owner of the property that was taken or damaged? I think not.

Well, yes, if it's recovered, and damages are awarded.

Regardless, in any case, it makes NO difference whether the person responsible is arrested or not, in terms of filing an insurance claim.

Don't be daft, of course it does, if the property is recovered and the victim gets damages the claim is quite different.

And remember, if you did provide "evidence" (video footage) to the police, expect to be brought up on the stand when this dirt bag gets arrested and tried. I'm sure the defense attorney will grill you like no tomorrow as how YOU sent this camera system up, and all about it, all the specs. After all, it's YOUR evidence the Police made the arrest.. The perp might even get off as you crumble and stutter in the court of law against a defense attorney.

Not in my experience.
"Is this the CCTV extract that you supplied to the Police?" Yes.
"Are the time stamps on the footage accurate?" Yes.
"Thank you, you can go".
Assuming it's not a multiple murder trial, that is.

After careful thought, I'm not buying any "real" cameras for my property. Too much waste of MY time, energy and monies. Just a few fake ones, so the prep will go to the next house.

Our next door neighbour installed 'fake' cameras.
They has zero effect on the burglars that broke in and stole his property.
Now he has some real cameras.

 

[Pilotknob]

RL's responses on this forum are confusing to me. I mean, this IS a forum dedicated to IP cameras and such. Oh well.

I have pretty much decided on Dahua 5231R-Z cameras(3 to start with) and running Blue Iris on a dedicated PC. Attempting to obtain the PC now. Probably an HP Elitedesk 800 G2 I5 6600. Already communicated with Andy. Prompt responses to messages. Definitely buying cameras from him.

On a side note, when I told my wife about my plans, she said to me "So you're buying a computer that's sole purpose is to run video cameras?". I just smiled.

 

[xips]

Monitored homes may qualify for a premium discount which varies by insurance carrier and the depth of your surveillance. Contact your agent for details. Posers need not apply.

 

[R L]

Feeling secure because of technology, and being secure, are two different things. Don't confuse them.
Nice to have a hobby, nothing wrong with it.
But a $35 fake camera setup with provide the SAME protection as a $1600 setup.
That is, protect your premise.

Remember, deterrent is the key.

And a quote, "George Washington wrote in 1799: "…make them believe, that offensive operations, often times, is the surest, if not the only (in some cases) means of defence".

Enjoy your hobby