NVR Replacement Advice?

[JessieO]

Hi All - I'm totally new here, but it sounds like you all would be the perfect people to ask this question. I'm looking for recommendations on a 16-channel NVR...

Backstory:
On Prime Day a couple months ago, I snagged an 8-camera 4K Lorex system for six hundred bucks. Not being super familiar with the brands but (perhaps wrongly) wanting to avoid fly-by-night brands, I thought a Lorex system would meet my needs - it was 8-channel, and although I wanted a 16-channel system even though 8 would meet my needs, but beggars can't be choosers I guess. I went through the back-breaking labor of doing the Cat5 runs through my attic, trenched in a Cat7 cable so I could grab a good view of my property from the corner (PoE injector & access point in the shed), and I thought I had a decent system set up.

The cameras seem excellent with very good night vision, and despite not listing it on the Lorex website, the cameras seem to be ONVIF-compliant (I can connect directly to a camera using an ONVIF-viewing app). The Lorex NVR, on the other hand, is THIS CLOSE to getting thrown out the window! The app is clunky, I can't do a lot of the configuration remotely (not good as I wanted to seal this system in a semi-permanent location), and it has just become a hassle! The worst, though: I spent days configuring the motion detection zones for my cameras, labeling them, setting up recording schedules, etc. Well, I had to turn off the power to my house for a few hours to do an unrelated wiring project, and when I turned the power back on, the Lorex system had lost roughly 90% of my configuration! All my motion detection zones, all but one of my camera configs, all my recording schedules - GONE. I was absolutely sure to diligently save all my config changes, so there is seemingly no reason for this. Along with that, two cameras can't connect to the NVR now and are getting wacky IPs issued to them despite being directly connected, but I can't even dig into the networking config because the Lorex Client is so limited. Even if I could get the NVR's config back to where it was, the loss of my time is what I'm really mad about. I am DONE with this NVR!!!

I want to ditch the NVR but keep the cameras. Since they seem to be ONVIF-compliant, I'm going to steer clear of Lorex and get a better brand of NVR.

This was the system I bought:

4K Ultra HD IP NVR security camera system with eight 4K IP cameras

4K Ultra HD IP NVR system with 4K 4MP IP cameras, 130FT night vision

www.lorextechnology.com

What I'm looking for:
A 16-channel NVR that has 4K and H.265 support. I would be fine with no PoE ports on it as (being a network engineer) I'd kind of like to buy a PoE switch separately and stick all the cameras on my LAN. I also don't need an included HDD as I may canibalize the 2TB from the Lorex or potentially buy a bigger drive, but I wouldn't turn away one just because it came with a drive.
Mobile app support with motion detection zones is a must, and being able to configure the thing almost entirely remotely would be strongly preferred.
$500 would be my limit, but I'm hoping not to spend that much as I'll be dropping cash on the PoE switch.

What am I looking for? A Dahua box?

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!

 

[wittaj]

Lorex is a Dahua rebrand, so there will be a lot of similarities in NVRs.

If you set the settings within the camera GUI and not the NVR they will stick.

Have you tried the Dahua app instead - iDMSS for apple or gDMSS for Google. Not perfect, but probably easier than the Lorex app. My neighbor has the Lorex NVR and once I showed him these, they are all he uses.

Personally I gave up on NVRs because I have found them to be clunky and a struggle to review clips, just as you are finding. I went to Blue Iris on a dedicated machine and haven't looked back. Not all NVRs are created equal - your NVR is probably limited to 80Mbps bandwidth and probably limits cams to 4096 bitrate, so once you look at an NVR that can pass a higher bandwidth, the dedicated computer and Blue Iris was cheaper in my case. Pros and Cons to each and many people on here run NVRs successfully.

With Blue Iris, you can remote desktop in, use teamviewer, etc. to get to the unit from anywhere.

I strongly consider you read up on Blue Iris - you mentioned being a computer person so I think you would find this exactly what you need.

 

[wittaj]

If you setup OpenVPN at home, you could then remote into your home network and get to the NVR by IP address and make all the changes that way as well - you do not need to be in front of the NVR hooked up to a monitor to make those changes.

And logging into the NVR by IP address usually gives you a few more options not seen with the NVR interface.

 

[mat200]

Hi All - I'm totally new here, but it sounds like you all would be the perfect people to ask this question. I'm looking for recommendations on a 16-channel NVR...

Backstory:
On Prime Day a couple months ago, I snagged an 8-camera 4K Lorex system for six hundred bucks. Not being super familiar with the brands but (perhaps wrongly) wanting to avoid fly-by-night brands, I thought a Lorex system would meet my needs - it was 8-channel, and although I wanted a 16-channel system even though 8 would meet my needs, but beggars can't be choosers I guess. I went through the back-breaking labor of doing the Cat5 runs through my attic, trenched in a Cat7 cable so I could grab a good view of my property from the corner (PoE injector & access point in the shed), and I thought I had a decent system set up.

The cameras seem excellent with very good night vision, and despite not listing it on the Lorex website, the cameras seem to be ONVIF-compliant (I can connect directly to a camera using an ONVIF-viewing app). The Lorex NVR, on the other hand, is THIS CLOSE to getting thrown out the window! The app is clunky, I can't do a lot of the configuration remotely (not good as I wanted to seal this system in a semi-permanent location), and it has just become a hassle! The worst, though: I spent days configuring the motion detection zones for my cameras, labeling them, setting up recording schedules, etc. Well, I had to turn off the power to my house for a few hours to do an unrelated wiring project, and when I turned the power back on, the Lorex system had lost roughly 90% of my configuration! All my motion detection zones, all but one of my camera configs, all my recording schedules - GONE. I was absolutely sure to diligently save all my config changes, so there is seemingly no reason for this. Along with that, two cameras can't connect to the NVR now and are getting wacky IPs issued to them despite being directly connected, but I can't even dig into the networking config because the Lorex Client is so limited. Even if I could get the NVR's config back to where it was, the loss of my time is what I'm really mad about. I am DONE with this NVR!!!

I want to ditch the NVR but keep the cameras. Since they seem to be ONVIF-compliant, I'm going to steer clear of Lorex and get a better brand of NVR.

This was the system I bought:

4K Ultra HD IP NVR security camera system with eight 4K IP cameras

4K Ultra HD IP NVR system with 4K 4MP IP cameras, 130FT night vision

www.lorextechnology.com

What I'm looking for:
A 16-channel NVR that has 4K and H.265 support. I would be fine with no PoE ports on it as (being a network engineer) I'd kind of like to buy a PoE switch separately and stick all the cameras on my LAN. I also don't need an included HDD as I may canibalize the 2TB from the Lorex or potentially buy a bigger drive, but I wouldn't turn away one just because it came with a drive.
Mobile app support with motion detection zones is a must, and being able to configure the thing almost entirely remotely would be strongly preferred.
$500 would be my limit, but I'm hoping not to spend that much as I'll be dropping cash on the PoE switch.

What am I looking for? A Dahua box?

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!

Welcome @JessieO

There are reasons why many members prefer Blue Iris VMS vs NVRs.

With regards to the Lorex NVR - it is probably a Dahua OEM NVR. You'd need to check the model tho, as Lorex also has some non-Dahua NVRs. ( they had some deal breakers on non-Lorex NVR systems iirc )

Did you configure the motion zones in the NVR?
Did you properly shutdown the NVR afterward to save everything?

An NVR is basically a PC in many ways - and settings need to be properly saved before power cycling.

UPDATE: see below reply

 

[bigredfish]

Agree with @wittaj you should use the web interface to the NVR, much better than the machine UI.

If you decide to go with a new NVR I recommend the Dahua 5000 pro series. Ive installed a number of them and they work well.
Pro Series

 

[mat200]

Hi All - I'm totally new here, but it sounds like you all would be the perfect people to ask this question. I'm looking for recommendations on a 16-channel NVR...

Backstory:
On Prime Day a couple months ago, I snagged an 8-camera 4K Lorex system for six hundred bucks. ...

This was the system I bought:

4K Ultra HD IP NVR security camera system with eight 4K IP cameras

4K Ultra HD IP NVR system with 4K 4MP IP cameras, 130FT night vision

www.lorextechnology.com

..

Hi @JessieO

I have taken a closer look, that kit is not a Dahua OEM NVR

If you wish to keep the cameras and you think they are ONVIF, I would go the Blue Iris Route.













Specs:
NVR pdf

https://www.lorextechnology.com/downloads/security-camera-system/LNK716394B/LNK7000-Series_Specs_R5.pdf

Camera pdf

https://www.lorextechnology.com/downloads/ip-cameras/LKB383A/LKB383A_Specs_R1.pdf

Compatibility page: Lorex - Product Compatibility Chart

Camera LKB383A is reported to only be compatible with the LNK7000 or LNK7000X NVRs, it is not reported to be compatible with the known Dahua OEM NVRs.

 

[looney2ns]

seriously return it all, get your money back. Then take time to read and study the cliff notes in the wiki here on this website.

 

[JessieO]

Sounds like I'm leaning toward the Blue Iris route. I've got a laptop that I can use as the PC, PoE switches are so reasonable these days (and I'd like to manage the cameras' IPs via DHCP reservations on my network), and I can plop the hard drive into a USB dock. Tearing down the cameras and returning the system isn't really an option as too many consumables from the kit were used during the installation, and even if I could get my money back, I spent too many hours rolling around in fiberglass insulation to want to take out those cables. All of this is OK - I went specifically with a IP-based system with cat5 cables so I'd have the flexibility to upgrade, add, and replace components down the road as now the cabling infrastructure (the hard part) is there.

As far as my loss of config on my NVR, all of my configuration was done via the NVR's web interface. I was very diligent in properly saving each change to the config after I made it as I had previously lost a few settings by not hitting "save" after each change.
The NVR sadly doesn't have a way to safely shut it down via the web interface or the client, so all shutdowns were "hard" - it feels very wrong powering it down like that, but I searched and searched for any way to shut it down remotely, and there doesn't seem to be a way. The NVR is plugged into a UPS, but I live in such a rural area that an NVR that cannot tolerate the occasional power outage just wont work for me as power is not anywhere near as stable as it is in the cities.

 

[wittaj]

Others will chime in with all the specifics, but a laptop and USB drive will not be ideal. Laptops not meant to run 24/7, processor is usually not as powerful and the smaller laptop means chip prone to heating and then throttling computing power to cool down, data bandwidth through USB will be choked, etc. I tried a laptop for testing purposes and it choked after 4 cameras and maxed CPU at 100% a lot. Now with the substream option available that may allow someone to get away with a laptop, but I would try to get a used business class tower if I were you.

Did you actually log in to the camera GUI through the NVR or simply did camera setup within the NVR - they are two different things. You would have had to go to the IP address of each camera and do a login into each camera and get to screens that looks nothing like the NVR screens. Most do not know that this is an option, but it opens up a lot more camera setting configuration on multiple screens compared to the paired down version they allow access to in the NVR interface.

 

[JessieO]

I did the camera setup on the NVR. Lorex has specific documentation on how to log into their cameras directly, but I get nothing but a blank page when trying to go to the camera in a web browser following their instructions (tried Chrome, IE, and FF). I tried multiple ways, but I just cannot get to the camera's interface. All of that seemed very odd as I expected each camera to have a web interface. I DID log into a camera using an ONVIF client, but that client was quite limited in what settings I could change.

 

[wittaj]

Well that is unfortunate.

If you have a POE switch or POE injector, look to see what the IP address is of the camera and then plug the camera into the injector and then the data cable into your laptop and then change the IP address of the laptop to something in the same range as the camera IP and try logging in that way. You would need to do this with Blue Iris anyway unless you plan to also run the NVR (which you can have both going if you wanted).

Also, Blue Iris has a 14 day demo you could try then as well and play with it and see if it fits your needs better.

 

[JessieO]

Yep, one of the cameras is powered by an active injector in my shed connected to an access point, putting the camera directly on the same subnet as my laptop. Nothing but a blank page when I go to it.

I'll work some more at it and also try the Blue Iris demo. That'll give me an idea of how well the software will work in my setup.

 

[wittaj]

That is bizarre - not even a login screen? And it looks like you tried several browsers.

 

[JessieO]

White screen on all browsers, no offer to run a plugin or anything, and this is Windows 10 so it's not like IE is running in Enhanced Security mode like on Windows Server. Page source is blank as well. There's obviously a web server listening as otherwise I'd be getting a numbered response like 404, but the page is just blank. I've tried other ports as well (443, 8080, 9000, and 35000) - still blank.

 

[wittaj]

Try the IP address:80 and then :81if :80 didn't work.

Some cameras just need a little nudge and adding that opened it up. But of course the number for the cam could be anything, but 80 and 81 are the common ones.

 

[JessieO]

Still nothing.