Pandemic threat? Anyone else concerned?

[Arjun]

 

[megazone23]

No chit! Look at China's total cases per million compared to the top 10. And, check out that we had $27K+ cases today alone which is greater than the total number for the #9 and #10.

I have been following the Asia news since January as I came from SARS region and know how bad that could be.

While the numbers in China is certainly under-reported, that can be due to a lot of factors. There are culture and technical reasons. First, people hadn't gotten diagnosed didn't count, either self-cured or died at home (technically, it's uncountable). People died other than in hospital didn't count, a lot of people was denied from hospital because there was no space, their bodies were just packed up and cremated. Local and regional authorities tried to under-report to make them look doing better job. The authorities changed the guideline in what should be included in report many times including not reporting confirmed case but no symptom from time to time.

However, one thing for certain is other than some ill-minded people, EVERONE had done a lot of better jobs than Europeans and Americans in stopping virus. Those better educated and have experience from SARS began to wear face masks, didn't even need to ask them to do so. The government has absolute authorities. When a city was closed, it's closed. It might be the only time without human rights is better. Taiwan stopped exporting surgical-grade face masks and medical equipment in January to protect they own people and increased production of face masks by themselves and now can produce 10M surgical masks per day. Hong Kong and Macau with first hand experience in SARS had also done a lot work to stop it.

But at the same time WHO and other countries were telling people it's all under control and regular people do not need face mask. Over-confidence and ignorance kill people, just don't try to blame others.

Went to Sam's Club for grocery 2 days ago, while the store told people maintain distance, I was surprised no employee wore masks. If you go to Chinese grocery stores, you will see totally different.

 

[Barboots]

I have been following the Asia news since January as I came from SARS region and know how bad that could be.

While the numbers in China is certainly under-reported, that can be due to a lot of factors. There are culture and technical reasons. First, people hadn't gotten diagnosed didn't count, either self-cured or died at home (technically, it's uncountable). People died other than in hospital didn't count, a lot of people was denied from hospital because there was no space, their bodies were just packed up and cremated. Local and regional authorities tried to under-report to make them look doing better job. The authorities changed the guideline in what should be included in report many times including not reporting confirmed case but no symptom from time to time.

However, one thing for certain is other than some ill-minded people, EVERONE had done a lot of better jobs than Europeans and Americans in stopping virus. Those better educated and have experience from SARS began to wear face masks, didn't even need to ask them to do so. The government has absolute authorities. When a city was closed, it's closed. It might be the only time without human rights is better. Taiwan stopped exporting surgical-grade face masks and medical equipment in January to protect they own people and increased production of face masks by themselves and now can produce 10M surgical masks per day. Hong Kong and Macau with first hand experience in SARS had also done a lot work to stop it.

But at the same time WHO and other countries were telling people it's all under control and regular people do not need face mask. Over-confidence and ignorance kill people, just don't try to blame others.

Went to Sam's Club for grocery 2 days ago, while the store told people maintain distance, I was surprised no employee wore masks. If you go to Chinese grocery stores, you will see totally different.

Gutsy post

 

[EMPIRETECANDY]

I have been following the Asia news since January as I came from SARS region and know how bad that could be.

While the numbers in China is certainly under-reported, that can be due to a lot of factors. There are culture and technical reasons. First, people hadn't gotten diagnosed didn't count, either self-cured or died at home (technically, it's uncountable). People died other than in hospital didn't count, a lot of people was denied from hospital because there was no space, their bodies were just packed up and cremated. Local and regional authorities tried to under-report to make them look doing better job. The authorities changed the guideline in what should be included in report many times including not reporting confirmed case but no symptom from time to time.

However, one thing for certain is other than some ill-minded people, EVERONE had done a lot of better jobs than Europeans and Americans in stopping virus. Those better educated and have experience from SARS began to wear face masks, didn't even need to ask them to do so. The government has absolute authorities. When a city was closed, it's closed. It might be the only time without human rights is better. Taiwan stopped exporting surgical-grade face masks and medical equipment in January to protect they own people and increased production of face masks by themselves and now can produce 10M surgical masks per day. Hong Kong and Macau with first hand experience in SARS had also done a lot work to stop it.

But at the same time WHO and other countries were telling people it's all under control and regular people do not need face mask. Over-confidence and ignorance kill people, just don't try to blame others.

Went to Sam's Club for grocery 2 days ago, while the store told people maintain distance, I was surprised no employee wore masks. If you go to Chinese grocery stores, you will see totally different.

People in HONGKONG there has lots of people wear masks no matter has virus or not. China mainland right now if you don't wear masks can't go any public places, esp in the big cities. Wear masks or not there has lots of talking in Western countries now. The biggest issue is right now there still not have enough masks. And China raised the export standard a lot, so normal masks can't ship out now. People all wait to see now, the world can't buy any enough medical masks from China anymore. The masks only meet China's standard and destination's standard can be exported.

 

[Jessie.slimer]

Over-confidence and ignorance kill people, just don't try to blame others.

Sorry but I blame the Chinese government, with the WHO being an accessory to the crime. They knew about this in December, and chose to lie and cover up to protect their pride rather than take action to prevent the spread. And now they have the gall to try and be the world's heroes.

After this is over, I really hope they are brought to justice.

 

[mat200]

I have been following the Asia news since January as I came from SARS region and know how bad that could be.

While the numbers in China is certainly under-reported, that can be due to a lot of factors. There are culture and technical reasons. First, people hadn't gotten diagnosed didn't count, either self-cured or died at home (technically, it's uncountable). People died other than in hospital didn't count, a lot of people was denied from hospital because there was no space, their bodies were just packed up and cremated. Local and regional authorities tried to under-report to make them look doing better job. The authorities changed the guideline in what should be included in report many times including not reporting confirmed case but no symptom from time to time.

However, one thing for certain is other than some ill-minded people, EVERONE had done a lot of better jobs than Europeans and Americans in stopping virus. Those better educated and have experience from SARS began to wear face masks, didn't even need to ask them to do so. The government has absolute authorities. When a city was closed, it's closed. It might be the only time without human rights is better. Taiwan stopped exporting surgical-grade face masks and medical equipment in January to protect they own people and increased production of face masks by themselves and now can produce 10M surgical masks per day. Hong Kong and Macau with first hand experience in SARS had also done a lot work to stop it.

But at the same time WHO and other countries were telling people it's all under control and regular people do not need face mask. Over-confidence and ignorance kill people, just don't try to blame others.

Went to Sam's Club for grocery 2 days ago, while the store told people maintain distance, I was surprised no employee wore masks. If you go to Chinese grocery stores, you will see totally different.

Hi Megazone23

1) "While numbers... "
Yes, I will agree with that.

2) "However, one thing for certain is other than some ill-minded people, EVERONE had done a lot of better jobs than Europeans and Americans in stopping virus. .. "
I strongly agree with regards to Taiwan ( ROC ), South Korea, SIngapore, Hong Kong, ..
I do strongly agree major failures on the part of many European countries and the USA ( note some central and south American countries are attempting to do a better more proactive job. )

However I strongly disagree with regards to PRC ( i.e. CCP China ). ( perhaps these are the ill-minded people you are referring to? If so, they're a significant "some" )

It is very clear that the CCP fumbled and even lied and covered up their errors.

It is very clear that they conspired with the WHO to deceive and dupe the world and the people of the world.

In fact, some of the points you've made are the propaganda bits coming out the the CCP "see communism with Chinese characteristics handles this better than democracies - so keep the CCP in power"

If you look closer at the examples in Asia, you can see just how well South Korea and Taiwan are doing to handle this. Had the CCP followed their examples the entire world would not be experiencing this serve outbreak and giant economic impact / recession.

The major fault is with the CCP for suppressing the doctors from getting the warnings out and from being more proactive, all the meanwhile claiming we are racist for wanting to stop air travel from Wuhan.

I'm happy to apply faults to others also, and thankful that:
In the Western Democracies we ( the people ) will have a chance to have some sort of judgement on our leaders.


Doctor Li Wenliang ( 李文亮 ) is a hero we should all remember. Those who censored him did so on the orders of the CCP.

( ps - I also think Andy here is our own ipct hero, sending us good masks.., so thankful for that. )

 

[megazone23]

Hi Megazone23

However I strongly disagree with regards to PRC ( i.e. CCP China ). ( perhaps these are the ill-minded people you are referring to? If so, they're a significant "some" )
It is very clear that the CCP fumbled and even lied and covered up their errors.
It is very clear that they conspired with the WHO to deceive and dupe the world and the people of the world.

In fact, some of the points you've made are the propaganda bits coming out the the CCP "see communism with Chinese characteristics handles this better than democracies - so keep the CCP in power"

If you look closer at the examples in Asia, you can see just how well South Korea and Taiwan are doing to handle this. Had the CCP followed their examples the entire world would not be experiencing this serve outbreak and giant economic impact / recession.

The major fault is with the CCP for suppressing the doctors from getting the warnings out and from being more proactive, all the meanwhile claiming we are racist for wanting to stop air travel from Wuhan.

My post was in no way to defend the China government (CCP), however, I'm defending the effort, which got undermined in discussion, everyone including the residents and CCP and other governments had put in fighting (not the covering and media control part) the virus when other are just focusing the under-reported numbers when it's now out of control in other countries.

Not a sensible people in Hong Kong and Taiwan believe what CCP said in face value, media had been complaining the officials of WHO being Pro-CCP since January.
(I would totally believe there is something in exchange under the table or they just don't have the required intelligence to be the officials, but I should keep conspiracy out of discussion).

Authorities of other countries should have known better in that, but instead they didn't do their homework but "believed" in what they've told.
Rather than just looking at the numbers and low death rate, looked into what they have done to keep that in control.
I can't believe some top officials said they didn't know Covid-19 is asymptomatic when it's known in January which differentiates it the most from SARS.

I tried to get more information of confirmed cases, in Los Angeles particularly, but other than the city of the case, there is no other information. I believe part of it because of privacy and politics. Instead, if looking at how Taiwan and Hong Kong handle each case, they will do a throughout track down of contacted and places visited. While not disclosing the identity, they will report where the person had gone to so others can get better awareness if they might have been to those places when possible symptoms shows.

 

[pete_c]

I believe there is a lot of privacy and politics in place.

Very true and it's been like this for a long time.

History repeats itself all of the time and we are supposed to learn from it.

Then again while it was talked about; a Pandemic would never happen (again) in the United States. (similar to disaster recovery when it doesn't fit the budget)

We are learning from advances in medicine and epidemiology.

Geez today we can interupt cellular reproduction and introduce new genetic material between phases of the cellular reproduction.

 

[mat200]

..

I tried to get more information of confirmed cases, in Los Angeles particularly, but other than the city of the case, there is no other information. I believe part of it because of privacy and politics. Instead, if looking at how Taiwan and Hong Kong handle each case, they will do a throughout track down of contacted and places visited. While not disclosing the identity, they will report where the person had gone to so others can get better awareness if they might have been to those places when possible symptoms shows.

Hi @megazone23

quick reply, not much time now to fully read items...

Re: I tried to get more information of confirmed cases, in Los Angeles particularly, but other than the city of the case, there is no other information.

So far this is what I have seen with regards to more detailed covid-19 location data for Los Angeles county.

LOS Angeles COVID-19 MAPs | Geography Planet

www.csun.edu

Naturally I do expect issues with more granular data and HIPAA requirements.

 

[Arjun]

@mat200 , the patient data for cases of COVID-19 are still maintained anonymously. New York is still the hotspot for this virus and details for New York CIty and ALL of Long Island are actually disclosed without patient details. HIPAA shouldn't be an issue here
Its crazy how this shit panned out, not one town spared

As of 4/3/2020

As of 4/3/2020


As of 4/2/2020

Hi @megazone23

quick reply, not much time now to fully read items...

Re: I tried to get more information of confirmed cases, in Los Angeles particularly, but other than the city of the case, there is no other information.

So far this is what I have seen with regards to more detailed covid-19 location data for Los Angeles county.

LOS Angeles COVID-19 MAPs | Geography Planet

www.csun.edu

Naturally I do expect issues with more granular data and HIPAA requirements.

 

[Sybertiger]

I don't get it....I see people closer than 6 feet apart, people rolling their windows down then less then 6 feet apart, shaking hands with a glove covered in Covid-19 to someone without a glove. Big time FAIL! They are endangering people and it could be in several weeks they'll be attending another funeral directly as a result of their fail.

 

[Arjun]

@Sybertiger that's a big time fail indeed. What's more challenging is how its is virtually impossible for health professionals to stay 6 feet apart in the ICU. That's why a high number health-workers got infected in Italy (that number is increasing worldwide)

By the way, I know this will especially hurt small businesses and the fast food chain, but try to avoid take out and food delivery if possible. With the lack of PPE, its hard to fathom safety when it comes to eating outside food. Every small move counts.

 

[J Sigmo]

Everyone should wear a mask. But if you managed to snag any masks before they were gone, you're an evil hoarder.

Everyone should stay home for a few months, and not leave your house. But if you prudently stocked up on the essentials over the last years or even months, you're an evil hoarder.

I see these conflicting messages being spewed forth by all sorts of "authorities", often in the very same videos or presentations.

While it's too late now, the moral, to me, is that everyone needs to be prepared to take care of themselves and their families, and even their neighbors and friends. Those nut-bag "preppers" actually "flatten the curve" whenever SHTF because they are NOT the ones who have to rush out and panic-buy goods all at once. Therefore, they do not contribute to the spike in demand that "breaks" supply chains.

Someone pointed out years ago that you cannot think of Wal Mart as your personal warehouse. Almost all retail is now based on JIT (just in time) delivery. I remember being in a Home Depot years ago, and not finding enough of some plumbing fittings I needed. I asked a guy if they had any more in the back. He said "There is no "back". What you see is what we have." And that's when it really sunk in for me what JIT really means in retail. It's efficient and saves a lot on labor and wasted space.

But it also means that everyone needs to be their own "warehouse". It doesn't matter if it's a flood, fires, hurricane, tornado, snowstorm, or whatever. If you think you're going to be able to find ample supplies after the disaster strikes, you're in for disappointment.

So I really get tired of hearing these officials saying "don't hoard" from one side of their mouth, and then saying "stay home for several months" out of the other. You can't have it both ways unless you're going to organize safe delivery of essentials to everyone (which isn't that bad of an idea now).

And I really am sickened by hearing non-preppers condemning those who have prepared over the years. We're not the ones creating the sudden spike in demand for everything. We're the ones helping to "flatten the curve" of demand now. It's you and your unprepared buddies who are raiding the stores in a panic now!

If and when this is over, and things go back to something similar to "normal", I can only hope there will be a lot more "nutbag preppers" out there slowly but surely gathering a good "hoard" of essentials for themselves and their neighbors. Then again, probably not enough will learn anything to prevent mayhem the next time.

I don't blame people for not wanting to think about horrible situations ahead of time. It's depressing. And thinking about such things and doing anything about it is like doing math homework or something. There's always something far more fun and relaxing to do. I get it. I'm as guilty as many.

But I sometimes think about an old cartoon and book from my childhood. "The grasshopper and the ants". Maybe some of you remember it, too.

Anyhow, I hope everyone does well with this. And I hope we can all help each other get through it. I feel blessed to be in a position (at least for the moment) to be able to be helping out relatives, friends, and neighbors.

I need to get going soon. Gotta go to work. I have my letter from the mayor of the town where I work granting passage as an essential worker should the governor ever wake up and lock our state down, (as I believe he should).

If I and two others I work with decide to all die, a town of around 3,000 people will have no tap water. Right now, everyone all over the world (at least those fortunate enough to have already had them) seem to still have electricity, water, and enough transportation to still get food.

But how many are prepared to carry on in a disaster that takes any or all of those things out for even a few weeks?

My thoughts and prayers go out to all front-line workers and anyone anywhere suffering through this. At this moment, I have everything I need. But that could change quickly.

My son (in medical school), his wife (a teacher), and their two kids all have the virus. They live in a town about 140 miles away. They cannot be tested, but according to his doctor friends, they're all "presumptively positive". He says he feels "like burnt dog shit", but the others are doing better. He doesn't have too much time to chat, due to studies and finals. It's all being done on-line for now, and that's a very good thing.

I have been able to order some ham radio equipment for him and me so we'll be better prepared to communicate even if the internet and phone systems crash. We're all ham nerds, but both of us had let it slip due to other interests and work lately. This is a good excuse to get more active again.

I just hope the antennas I have coming from Florida make it here. I have to hand it to UPS and the other shipping people. They're doing a fantastic job, as usual.

Sorry for the useless rant. I guess it just feels good to spew at you all!

Courage and good health to you all!

 

[Sybertiger]

I don't blame people for not wanting to think about horrible situations ahead of time. It's depressing. And thinking about such things and doing anything about it is like doing math homework or something. There's always something far more fun and relaxing to do. I get it. I'm as guilty as many.

Maybe partially true but let's admit, there's a lot of people that would rather piss their money away on a Covid-19 cruise than take the money and use it to prep for disasters. Many of these same people have the expectation that when there is disaster there is nothing they need to do but sit back and wait for the gubermint for hand outs. The same people think you don't need a firearm for home invasion protection because they can call 911 and wait 30 minutes for a cop to show up.

 

[tangent]

 

[Ssayer]

Maybe partially true but let's admit, there's a lot of people that would rather piss their money away on a Covid-19 cruise than take the money and use it to prep for disasters. Many of these same people have the expectation that when there is disaster there is nothing they need to do but sit back and wait for the gubermint for hand outs. The same people think you don't need a firearm for home invasion protection because they can call 911 and wait 30 minutes for a cop to show up.

My nephew and I have talked about a situation like we have at present for a number of years now. Over that time, we've both stocked up. He's taken gun classes and we've both put in a lot of range time. Also, we've both stocked up on some yellow stuff. Funny about that yellow stuff though as we both seem to have recently lost all of it in boating accidents. Anyway, now it's all wait and see. Unfortunately, though I do see us getting past this virus, I'm not overly optimistic about the rest. From what I can see (for anyone that is short on toilet paper), there are plenty of copies of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights around that no longer seem relevant and need some use going forward. Hopefully I'm wrong (I'd like nothing more than to be wrong), but...

 

[J Sigmo]

Well, we already see this disaster being used by certain factions to try to push through their political agendas, and as with 9-11, a lot is apparently going to be done to erode our freedoms, potentially not only for now, but for the future as well.

On the one hand, I can see the immediate necessity of some of these measures, but all of this needs to be carefully considered, and "sunset" clauses need to be inserted into any of these edicts so we don't get steamrolled into accepting a lot of this as normal from now on.

When you herd cattle, the basic idea is to scare them into doing what you want them to do, right? We've got to be very careful about all of this.

 

[Ssayer]

I understand what you're saying. But, this is the USA, not China. Too many people believe that there are many "good" reasons to give up liberty (even temporarily) for security. I took the oath (I can still remember details of that day). I've read the Constitution. I've read the Bill of Rights, it is not the Bill of Permissions. I know the difference between Rights and Permissions. It's senseless for me to go on. My position is clear enough and will not change....

 

[beepsilver]

Everyone should wear a mask. But if you managed to snag any masks before they were gone, you're an evil hoarder.

Everyone should stay home for a few months, and not leave your house. But if you prudently stocked up on the essentials over the last years or even months, you're an evil hoarder.

I see these conflicting messages being spewed forth by all sorts of "authorities", often in the very same videos or presentations.

While it's too late now, the moral, to me, is that everyone needs to be prepared to take care of themselves and their families, and even their neighbors and friends. Those nut-bag "preppers" actually "flatten the curve" whenever SHTF because they are NOT the ones who have to rush out and panic-buy goods all at once. Therefore, they do not contribute to the spike in demand that "breaks" supply chains.

Someone pointed out years ago that you cannot think of Wal Mart as your personal warehouse. Almost all retail is now based on JIT (just in time) delivery. I remember being in a Home Depot years ago, and not finding enough of some plumbing fittings I needed. I asked a guy if they had any more in the back. He said "There is no "back". What you see is what we have." And that's when it really sunk in for me what JIT really means in retail. It's efficient and saves a lot on labor and wasted space.

But it also means that everyone needs to be their own "warehouse". It doesn't matter if it's a flood, fires, hurricane, tornado, snowstorm, or whatever. If you think you're going to be able to find ample supplies after the disaster strikes, you're in for disappointment.

So I really get tired of hearing these officials saying "don't hoard" from one side of their mouth, and then saying "stay home for several months" out of the other. You can't have it both ways unless you're going to organize safe delivery of essentials to everyone (which isn't that bad of an idea now).

And I really am sickened by hearing non-preppers condemning those who have prepared over the years. We're not the ones creating the sudden spike in demand for everything. We're the ones helping to "flatten the curve" of demand now. It's you and your unprepared buddies who are raiding the stores in a panic now!

If and when this is over, and things go back to something similar to "normal", I can only hope there will be a lot more "nutbag preppers" out there slowly but surely gathering a good "hoard" of essentials for themselves and their neighbors. Then again, probably not enough will learn anything to prevent mayhem the next time.

I don't blame people for not wanting to think about horrible situations ahead of time. It's depressing. And thinking about such things and doing anything about it is like doing math homework or something. There's always something far more fun and relaxing to do. I get it. I'm as guilty as many.

But I sometimes think about an old cartoon and book from my childhood. "The grasshopper and the ants". Maybe some of you remember it, too.

Anyhow, I hope everyone does well with this. And I hope we can all help each other get through it. I feel blessed to be in a position (at least for the moment) to be able to be helping out relatives, friends, and neighbors.

I need to get going soon. Gotta go to work. I have my letter from the mayor of the town where I work granting passage as an essential worker should the governor ever wake up and lock our state down, (as I believe he should).

If I and two others I work with decide to all die, a town of around 3,000 people will have no tap water. Right now, everyone all over the world (at least those fortunate enough to have already had them) seem to still have electricity, water, and enough transportation to still get food.

But how many are prepared to carry on in a disaster that takes any or all of those things out for even a few weeks?

My thoughts and prayers go out to all front-line workers and anyone anywhere suffering through this. At this moment, I have everything I need. But that could change quickly.

My son (in medical school), his wife (a teacher), and their two kids all have the virus. They live in a town about 140 miles away. They cannot be tested, but according to his doctor friends, they're all "presumptively positive". He says he feels "like burnt dog shit", but the others are doing better. He doesn't have too much time to chat, due to studies and finals. It's all being done on-line for now, and that's a very good thing.

I have been able to order some ham radio equipment for him and me so we'll be better prepared to communicate even if the internet and phone systems crash. We're all ham nerds, but both of us had let it slip due to other interests and work lately. This is a good excuse to get more active again.

I just hope the antennas I have coming from Florida make it here. I have to hand it to UPS and the other shipping people. They're doing a fantastic job, as usual.

Sorry for the useless rant. I guess it just feels good to spew at you all!

Courage and good health to you all!

More power to anyone who has accumulated and stored supplies over the years to be ready for any contingency--that's not hoarding during a crisis. But to wait until an event hits, then run to the store and grab more product than is necessary is wrong. Once a person finds themselves in this situation they're honor-bound to take only what is needed so others in the community have the same opportunity to protect themselves. At a minimum, people without supplies may get themselves and others sick--but while a community usually comes together during a crisis, there are always examples of illicit behavior that could have dire consequences.

 

[Arjun]

This pandemic is an exam the whole world has no choice but to undertake.

Corona beer stops production | CNN Business

Production of Corona beer is being temporarily suspended in Mexico because of the coronavirus pandemic.

www.cnn.com