Pandemic threat? Anyone else concerned?

[Sybertiger]

Just thought I'd trigger some TDS today for grins....the pic of Trump in Starfleet uni did crack me up...but the libs still think, because of TDS, is the one who designed the SpaceForce flag.

The logo for Donald Trump's new US Space Force looks very familiar

George Takei tweeted: 'Ahem. We are expecting some royalties from this.’

metro.co.uk

 

[Frankenscript]

And on the topic of can't fix stupid I give you our president's statement yesterday, taken from a politico article but you can find his words anywhere, as everyone is reporting on it:

“America has now conducted its 10 millionth test. That’s as of yesterday afternoon. Ten million tests we gave. Ten million,” Trump said from a stage at the warehouse event, which had the trappings of a campaign-style rally. “And CVS has just committed to establish up to 1,000 new coronavirus testing sites by the end of this month, and the 10 millionth will go up very, very rapidly.”

“And don’t forget, we have more cases than anybody in the world,” he added. “But why? Because we do more testing. When you test, you have a case. When you test, you find something is wrong with people. If we didn’t do any testing, we would have very few cases.”

Trump said the news media had refused to report his “common sense” explanation for the country’s high case numbers. He repeated the misleading claim that the U.S. has tested more people than other countries, sidestepping the reality that testing as a share of the population is lower than in other countries.


Ok, so we shouldn't test and that will solve our problems?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk

Nothing misleading there unless you want to twist it.
It is true we've tested more people, it's also true that its a smaller share than some other countries.

The two statements are not contradictory nor is it 'sidestepping reality"

No, thats not what he said. You did.

Liberal media has him trained well.

You are right, the idiot libs needs a explanation on # of tests vs percentage of population tested preferably using a coloring book explanation or a sesame street skit because you rightly pointed out they don't understand the difference.

Catching up on things, having just decided a tree in my yard doesn't need an arborist, it needs a priest, probably.

Anyway...

When we talk about testing, unless the words "total tests" or "total number of tests" is part of the statement, of course it refers to per capita tests... In his introduction, context made clear that he was crowing about 10M tests, very nice. Congrats Mr. President, the private sector bailed you out and we've just about gotten to having adequate testing capacity now. We should have had 10M tests a month ago...

But then in the next section about more tests than anybody in the world, it is VERY CLEAR that he is trying to tie that to the 10M number and imply we've tested more of our population, which is blatantly false. We're at position thirty nine which is a disgrace given how far into the pandemic we are. I'm not saying we should be at #1, because there are lots of small countries that easily tested sizeable parts of their population, but by all rights we should be up there. Jeez, even RUSSIA has tested more than we have (per capita in case you need that clarified).

The narrative Mr. Trump wants to promulgate is threefold:

1. We've very competently tested our population (FALSE, we've really just gotten started)

2. That we have more "cases" (diagnosed illnesses of COVID-19) than the rest of the world because we've tested such a large portion of the population, and if we didn't test we wouldn't have cases. (FALSE) These people would be sick and dying if we tested them or not!!! He's making a clear and explicit case that because we are testing such a large portion of our public, we're finding cases that wouldn't otherwise exist. NO!! NOT TRUE! These "cases" are clinical referrals, people showing up needing care. Whether we use a test and finger them as COVID-19 or just call them "Flu-Like-Illness, not specified," these people are ill and need help.
Come on guys, the total dead in the US (~89,000) is greater than the TOTAL NUMBER OF CASES IN MOST COUNTRIES. There are only about 10 other countries with >89k CASES. And this jackass is trying to sound like the situation here is some sort of fake news caused by too many cases. He SAID IT:

"When you test, you find something is wrong with people. If we didn’t do any testing, we would have very few cases.”
These people would be cases even if we tested nobody. And 89k of them would still be dead.

3. He's doing his "dog whistle" thing to start turning people (that listen to him) away from testing because he wants the numbers to trend down to support more economic opening and help his election bid. Not only is this stupid (if we stop testing, people are still going to be dying from severe unusual respiratory problems and they will still be marked COVID since most deaths are highly atypical from what hospitals usually see), it's flatly unethical.

OK guys, if I'm wrong on this, what is the narrative he is trying to put forth? What is his point, if not to downlplay the crisis? Why would he say these things? Please, clue me into the Trumpie logic of it.

 

[Frankenscript]

Just thought I'd trigger some TDS today for grins....the pic of Trump in Starfleet uni did crack me up...but the libs still think, because of TDS, is the one who designed the SpaceForce flag.

The logo for Donald Trump's new US Space Force looks very familiar

George Takei tweeted: 'Ahem. We are expecting some royalties from this.’

metro.co.uk

Hilarious. Here's something I think is funnier, I just wish it were a real Time cover (it's fake of course):

 

[Sybertiger]

Hilarious. Here's something I think is funnier, I just wish it were a real Time cover (it's fake of course):

View attachment 61841

Time to go...kick some more commie liberal ass bullshit. Agreed!!



DONE! NEXT....

 

[Oceanslider]

You realize the quote is a fake, right? Fact check wherever you like; here's one: FACT CHECK: Did Hillary Clinton Say Democratic Voters Are Stupid?

The quote might be fake I don't know. Snopes is leftist. His word against hers. David Clarke (sheriff) - Wikipedia .

But it is truth.

 

[Oceanslider]

Time to go...kick some more commie liberal ass bullshit. Agreed!!

View attachment 61843

DONE! NEXT....

Not very competitive, because it is a gigantic target.

 

[bigredfish]

Mr. Trump didnt "promulgate" shit in your. You read into his words what you want to hear

Catching up on things, having just decided a tree in my yard doesn't need an arborist, it needs a priest, probably.

Anyway...

When we talk about testing, unless the words "total tests" or "total number of tests" is part of the statement, of course it refers to per capita tests... In his introduction, context made clear that he was crowing about 10M tests, very nice. Congrats Mr. President, the private sector bailed you out and we've just about gotten to having adequate testing capacity now. We should have had 10M tests a month ago...

But then in the next section about more tests than anybody in the world, it is VERY CLEAR that he is trying to tie that to the 10M number and imply we've tested more of our population, which is blatantly false. We're at position thirty nine which is a disgrace given how far into the pandemic we are. I'm not saying we should be at #1, because there are lots of small countries that easily tested sizeable parts of their population, but by all rights we should be up there. Jeez, even RUSSIA has tested more than we have (per capita in case you need that clarified).

The narrative Mr. Trump wants to promulgate is threefold:

1. We've very competently tested our population (FALSE, we've really just gotten started)

2. That we have more "cases" (diagnosed illnesses of COVID-19) than the rest of the world because we've tested such a large portion of the population, and if we didn't test we wouldn't have cases. (FALSE) These people would be sick and dying if we tested them or not!!! He's making a clear and explicit case that because we are testing such a large portion of our public, we're finding cases that wouldn't otherwise exist. NO!! NOT TRUE! These "cases" are clinical referrals, people showing up needing care. Whether we use a test and finger them as COVID-19 or just call them "Flu-Like-Illness, not specified," these people are ill and need help.
Come on guys, the total dead in the US (~89,000) is greater than the TOTAL NUMBER OF CASES IN MOST COUNTRIES. There are only about 10 other countries with >89k CASES. And this jackass is trying to sound like the situation here is some sort of fake news caused by too many cases. He SAID IT:

"When you test, you find something is wrong with people. If we didn’t do any testing, we would have very few cases.”
These people would be cases even if we tested nobody. And 89k of them would still be dead.

3. He's doing his "dog whistle" thing to start turning people (that listen to him) away from testing because he wants the numbers to trend down to support more economic opening and help his election bid. Not only is this stupid (if we stop testing, people are still going to be dying from severe unusual respiratory problems and they will still be marked COVID since most deaths are highly atypical from what hospitals usually see), it's flatly unethical.

OK guys, if I'm wrong on this, what is the narrative he is trying to put forth? What is his point, if not to downlplay the crisis? Why would he say these things? Please, clue me into the Trumpie logic of it.

Trump didnt "promulgate" shit in your initial quote. You read into his words what you want to hear.

Are you saying that we would otherwise, without testing, know that there are close to 1.5 million "cases" in the US? This number also includes asymptomatic cases that without testing likely wouldnt have been known.

YOU said: These "cases" are clinical referrals, people showing up needing care.
I dont think we've seen 1.5 million 'show up" at doctors offices and hospitals sick with symptoms. That number is known due to testing, including asymptomatic. Exactly what Trump actually said.

Its called plain speaking. It just never occurs to those with TDS that there doesnt have to be a "narrative"

Look I dont agree with much of what comes out of Trumps mouth. But I dont try and put words in it to suit my "narrative'

 

[Frankenscript]

Mr. Trump didnt "promulgate" shit in your. You read into his words what you want to hear




Trump didnt "promulgate" shit in your initial quote. You read into his words what you want to hear.

Are you saying that we would otherwise, without testing, know that there are close to 1.5 million "cases" in the US? This number also includes asymptomatic cases that without testing likely wouldnt have been known.

YOU said: These "cases" are clinical referrals, people showing up needing care.
I dont think we've seen 1.5 million 'show up" at doctors offices and hospitals sick with symptoms. That number is known due to testing, including asymptomatic. Exactly what Trump actually said.

Its called plain speaking. It just never occurs to those with TDS that there doesnt have to be a "narrative"

Look I dont agree with much of what comes out of Trumps mouth. But I dont try and put words in it to suit my "narrative'

I appreciate the response. Let me review a few things so we stay on the same page:

-Most of the recorded 1.5M cases of COVID-19 come from symptomatic people needing (or at least believing they need) care, who went to hospitals or urgent care or whatever medical facility. This includes anyone diagnosed with COVID-19, tested or not (early on, a significant % were diagnosed without an affirmative test, because severe cases of COVID-19 are easy to spot due to unusual clinical presentation). A lot of them were sent home to recuperate because their symptoms were not severe enough to warrant admission (I know several like this).

-Within the 1.5M, there is now some fraction of the number which represents asymptomatic (or in some cases pre-symptomatic) infections found through random sampling or contact tracing, and this percentage is now growing (rapidly) as larger cohorts of people (including people with no reason to believe they are infected) are tested in an effort to understand the epidemiology and degree of spread of the disease. But yes, well over a million people sought care for COVID-19 so far. Whether it's 1.3M or 1.45M, I can't tell you.

-Beyond the 1.5M known cases (almost all of who were sick at some point and sought care) it is known there are lots of people that are infected either with subclinical symptoms (didn't feel sick enough to seek treatment), or were asymptomatic (and some pre-symptomatic). Most estimates I've seen suggest that for every clinical case (meaning someone diagnosed with the disease), there are ~10 more . This will vary regionally; recently published data in Indiana of a random sampling of ~4600 people at the end of April showed for every 1 clinical case (sick person seeking care) there were 10 more infections about half of which were subclinical and the rest were asymptomatic. So, at least in Indiana the last week or April: For every 1 clinical case, there were about 5 sick folks that didn't seek care (and were not cases) and another 5 that had no symptoms. If this pattern scales nationally, and given it's now weeks later and we are at 1.5M cases nationally, this means there are 15 million Americans that either had subclinical symptoms or were asymptomatic. Overall <5% are likely exposed to the virus so far.

-Review of case outcomes shows something like a 6% CFR (case fatality rate); given the number of subclinical and asymptomatic cases the IFR (infection fatality rate) is probably around 0.6 nationally (recent measurement of 0.58% in Indiana).

My view is that testing is critical, following the opinions of the medical experts. I'd like to see us test everyone (not forcing anyone CCP style, just everyone willing), and isolate anyone infectious (at their home, maybe gov't subsidy while they are isolated:good return on investment!), and do contact tracing to figure out additional people who should be repeatedly tested for a week or two. Trump says it's over-rated. Sorry, he's wrong.

Here's a recording of his speech:
Go to 2:45. He says testing is over-rated then disparages people (his health advisors like Fauci/Birx, but he didn't name names) for asking for more.

Trump is a politician who thought he had a good shot at re-election based on a strong economy. The economy is now in crisis and he's trying to get it moving as quickly as possible. I disagree in strong terms that he's just "plain speaking" ... I believe he is desperate to start moving beyond COVID-19 and this "testing is overrated" narrative (and it IS a narrative) is part of it.

What's interesting to me is that if he really wanted us to be in a "post-COVID" economy this fall, he'd be the one demanding testing ramp up as quickly as possible. Test, Trace, Isolate is the short term play here. Instead, what's actually going to happen most likely is that we will open up over the summer then when fall hits we'll have another big wave and probably need to go back into lockdown. That would doom his chances for sure.

 

[Frankenscript]

The quote might be fake I don't know. Snopes is leftist. His word against hers. David Clarke (sheriff) - Wikipedia .

But it is truth.

Wrong. She didn't say it. It is widely debunked. If you don't like snopes, here is AP news and politifact. If you won't listen to AP news you are beyond hope, my friend :

Quote falsely attributed to Hillary Clinton

Claim: Hillary Clinton said “the average Democrat voter is just plain stupid.” AP ASSESSMENT: False. Hillary Clinton did not say, “Look, the average Democrat voter is just plain stupid. They’re easy to manipulate...

apnews.com

No evidence Hillary Clinton called Democratic voters stupid

Getting himself briefly banned from Twitter made us wonder whether David A. Clarke Jr., the provocative Donald Trump sup

www.politifact.com

As for his word against hers, that's BS and you know it. The guy is a Trump supporter and he has no recording of this conversation.

 

[beepsilver]

Trump is a politician who thought he had a good shot at re-election based on a strong economy. The economy is now in crisis and he's trying to get it moving as quickly as possible. I disagree in strong terms that he's just "plain speaking" ... I believe he is desperate to start moving beyond COVID-19 and this "testing is overrated" narrative (and it IS a narrative) is part of it.

What's interesting to me is that if he really wanted us to be in a "post-COVID" economy this fall, he'd be the one demanding testing ramp up as quickly as possible. Test, Trace, Isolate is the short term play here. Instead, what's actually going to happen most likely is that we will open up over the summer then when fall hits we'll have another big wave and probably need to go back into lockdown. That would doom his chances for sure.

Your president is a businessman working in a political position where he's done quite well. Take a glance over your shoulder and remember the guy whose policies led him to inform us that the US likely faces permanently slower economic growth. MOST Americans wouldn't settle for that. Along comes your new America-loving president armed to the teeth with fortitude. In just three short years his policies kick-started the economy into steady forward motion. Just as we've overcome many other obstacles, America will overcome CoVid led by a president who will get the job done. MOST Americans know that waiting is not an option. It's your president's actions and policies, not the economy which will result in his reelection.

 

[bigredfish]

Seems just about every country is trying to "re-open". Not just the USA. (and by the way, the State Governors are largely the one making the calls now, Not Trump)

Here's a link to AP News (whom some here think to be credible.. ) about countries all over the world doing the same thing the US is. ,
Europe relaxing virus restrictions but cases flare elsewhere
Europe relaxing virus restrictions but cases flare elsewhere

Why do you suppose that is? Could it be because the world economies can't handle too much more shut down before you see a depression that would make 1929 look tame? There have been approx 36 million unemployed in the US alone in the past 10 weeks. Think about that ...

Neither the pandemic nor the resulting economic crisis are Trumps fault, nor are they unique to the US, but some have to have their boogeyman.

 

[Q™]

Along comes your new America-loving president armed to the teeth with fortitude. In just three short years his policies kick-started the economy into steady forward motion

Trump’s Economic Growth Is Slower Than Obama’s Last 3 Years

President Trump says the economy is the best ever. When you look at GDP growth rates, one quickly realizes he is gaslighting the American public. Each of the last three years of Obama’s economy were stronger than Trump’s 2019 once adjusted for trade, inventory impacts and government spending.

www.forbes.com

 

[beepsilver]

There are all manner of charts available online with many variations to suit anyone's argument. I imagine MOST Americans judge a strong economy based upon lower taxes, record unemployment, investment potential and how taxpayer dollars are spent. MOST support a fiscally responsible leader with a positive attitude.

 

[Q™]

There are all manner of charts available online with many variations to suit anyone's argument

There certainly are!

 

[Arjun]

Putting politics to the side,

 

[Frankenscript]

Here is a good article from the New England Journal of Medicine, detailing in sober apolitical ways why more testing is needed, not less.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2014836

No, Mr. Trump, testing is not "overrated."

If we are going to keep businesses open, we need to test, trace, and isolate. Otherwise it's back to lockdowns for a longer term.

 

[beepsilver]

View attachment 61885

There certainly are!

Investment potential is certainly ONE of the categories MOST would use to measure strength of the economy, so don't forget to take into account how federal tax rates influence the percentage of market gains that actually end up in the pockets of average investors. Your president reduced taxes and unemployment to help all Americans while at the same time slashing unnecessary/costly programs and of course overhauling unfair trade deals. All of which made a somewhat weak economy a much stronger economy.

 

[Frankenscript]

I'm headed out to do a state-and-regional-authorities-allowed outdoor hobby event. Presuming the rain holds off.

Meanwhile here is some 538 polling on attitudes about the crisis. Interesting read.

Democrats Say The Worst Of The Coronavirus Is Yet To Come. Republicans Say The Worst Is Over.

Welcome to Pollapalooza, our weekly polling roundup. Poll(s) of the week So far, Americans have largely supported using social distancing to slow the spread of …

fivethirtyeight.com

 

[Sybertiger]

I assume the adjustment is to take into account examples such as...

Citizen X died of an auto accident on the way to the hospital but his blood had Covid-19 in it...
Citizen Y died when she was taking a selfie at the edge of a cliff but fell to her death but her blood had Covid-19 in it...
Citizen Z died when he fell from his roof while cleaning the gutters but his blood had Covid-19 in it...

Colorado Gov. Polis pushes back against CDC's coronavirus death counts

Colorado Gov. Jared Polis, a Democrat, pushed back against recent coronavirus death counts, including those conducted by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention [CDC], days after his own state’s health department acknowledged that its numbers had been inflated by including people who had...

www.foxnews.com

 

[Sybertiger]

I'm headed out to do a state-and-regional-authorities-allowed outdoor hobby event. Presuming the rain holds off.

Meanwhile here is some 538 polling on attitudes about the crisis. Interesting read.

Democrats Say The Worst Of The Coronavirus Is Yet To Come. Republicans Say The Worst Is Over.

Welcome to Pollapalooza, our weekly polling roundup. Poll(s) of the week So far, Americans have largely supported using social distancing to slow the spread of …

fivethirtyeight.com

Conservatives are AmeriCANs while LIberals are AmeriCANTs which probably explains why democrats are the party of negativism.