BORIStheBLADE
Getting comfortable
Alright fever broke after 24 hours of using Pfizer meds. All I got left is body aches and a cough. This stuff gives you a permanent after taste that sucks.
Pandemic threat? Anyone else concerned?
- Thread starter erkme73
- Start date
bigredfish
Known around here
Ssayer
BIT Beta Team
Dad started on it a week ago today. His BP has tanked on the second day. It’s been tanked ever since. He feels like crap.
BORIStheBLADE
Getting comfortable
I'll be honest... I don't really monitor my BP. I just turned 42 and usually only get it checked at the doctor. Did he have any issues prior?
He had higher BP prior.
Last fall when he had it he went in to get the monticlonal he felt better within 12 hours.
He was feeling like crap again a week and a half ago, he took a home test amd it was positive so he called his dr. He sent out a script for that phizer drug and after about 24-36 hours he was feeling Like crap. Took his BP and it was way low.
He finished his regime on Tuesday or Wednesday and I just talked to him today and he still feels like crap and his BP is still way low.
BORIStheBLADE
Getting comfortable
Im surprised they didnt tell him to stop taking it and visit a ER.
Frankenscript
Known around here
- Dec 21, 2017
- 1,288
- 1,201
I'm for making it available to those under 5. I don't think the evidence supports a requirement for kids under 5 to be vaccinated, and there's no push to do this. If I were a parent of a toddler in preschool/daycare, and had someone in the house who was immunocompromised or had other major risk factors, I would absolutely get the kid vaxxed. In the case of a generally healthy family with other members fully vaccinated, I would probably hold off until a next generation shot with better variant coverage was available that would be more effective in this particular case. Full disclosure: my kids (in their teens) are vaxxed/boosted and my wife and I are vaxxed/double-boosted (we are both over 50 and both have some risk factors besides age).
Always love your word salad
I suppose you have good rebuttals for the public Canadian and UK stats showing hospitalizations and deaths are and have been since Sept/Oct ‘21 75%-85% jabbed
“The current vaccines are pretty good at keeping you out of the hospital and dying. “
This is right out of the playbook of the Ministry of Truth..yet I never see any data backing it up. The data out there from countries unlike our our own that actually publish ALL of the data clearly show otherwise.
Well, Canada is about 85% at least partially vaxxed and over 80% fully vaxxed. And I'm not sure of your source for deaths being mostly among vaxxed. For example, here's raw Canadian data (from this source):
So, looking at total numbers (rather than rate per say 100k population), only 20.5% of the hospitalizations are among the vaxxed, and about 18% of the deaths. I haven't found a handy comparison of vaxxed and unvaxxed populations over time in the few minutes I'm spending on this, but it would clearly show a several fold advantage to being vaccinated on a rate per population basis.
For the UK they put out a Surveillance Report. There are other visualizations but I don't have time to look them up.
I can share with you Indiana data (and if you think Indiana is part of some liberal conspiracy, I've got a bridge to sell you) because I look at it every week or two and have the link handy. See the breakthrough page accessed from this main page:
Just like the article you brought up on Tuesday, being vaccinated only helps a bit to prevent cases. Hospitalizations and Deaths drop dramatically, though, in the vaxxed population.
Look @bigredfish , if this were a randomized double blind study, yes that negative immunity would be due to some effect of the vaccine impacting the immune system. But that's not what this study is. This is a retrospective study on a population that decided for itself to get the vaccine, or not, and if they got sick, to report it, or not (severe case / death reporting is at hospital level though so pretty reliable). This is all discussed at the end of the study in the limitations section. They aren't matching for a lot of factors. Remember, the audience for NEJM isn't you, or Zerohedge or wherever you got the link from. Their audience is doctors and scientists who understand the limitations of this type of study. Your harping on the case numbers about negative immunity isn't factoring in the differences that are going to exist between the cohorts.
You brought this paper up apparently to chortle about some negative impact of the vaccines, when actually what the paper does is validate that even two doses prevents severe disease, and that boosting helps slow the spread. This data closely mirrors what every country with decent metrics has shown, and frankly it's a retrospective endorsement of the strategy the CDC has taken.
Look, I'm happy to use my background to help explain things like this but it's a waste of everybody's time for you to point it out, let me go into detail about what it means based on my decades as a scientist and member of the clinical trial community, then for you to harp on numbers that I've already explained.
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bigredfish
Known around here
Nice try, the Canadian numbers you show begins in early 2021 when. Almost nobody was vaxxed. Look at numbers for 2022 or even Dec 21 through May 22
The Government of Canada has confirmed that the vaccinated population account for 4 in every 5 Covid-19 deaths to have occurred across the country since the middle of February 2022, and 70% of those deaths have been among the triple vaccinated population.
The Government of Canada produces a daily Covid-19 Epidemiology update, in which they sporadically provide new data on Covid-19 cases, hospitalisations and deaths as and when they feel like it.
The following table is taken from their 14th June update, found here, and shows the number of cases, hospitalisations and deaths by vaccination status up to May 29th 2022 –
Source
Unfortunately, the Government of Canada is attempting to deceive the public by providing a tally of cases, hospitalisations and deaths that stretches all the way back to December 14th 2020. By doing this they’re able to include a huge wave that occurred in January 2021 when just 0.3% of the population of Canada was considered fully vaccinated.
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Very familiar with the UK reports. See the charts from week 13, the last week they reported this data in this format. Go back as far as the Fall and you'll see clearly that as the vax % goes up, the number of deaths follows in the Vaxxed population.
Not sure which of the hundreds of links in this thread you're speaking of but you can interpret the NEJM study how you'd like, and maybe you can get these guys to change the title of theirs if its so misleading
Serious Adverse Events of Special Interest Following mRNA Vaccination in Randomized Trials
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4125239
Results: Pfizer and Moderna mRNA COVID-19 vaccines were associated with an increased risk of serious adverse events of special interest, with an absolute risk increase of 10.1 and 15.1 per 10,000 vaccinated over placebo baselines of 17.6 and 42.2 (95% CI -0.4 to 20.6 and -3.6 to 33.8), respectively. Combined, the mRNA vaccines were associated with an absolute risk increase of serious adverse events of special interest of 12.5 per 10,000 (95% CI 2.1 to 22.9). The excess risk of serious adverse events of special interest surpassed the risk reduction for COVID-19 hospitalization relative to the placebo group in both Pfizer and Moderna trials (2.3 and 6.4 per 10,000 participants, respectively).
The Government of Canada has confirmed that the vaccinated population account for 4 in every 5 Covid-19 deaths to have occurred across the country since the middle of February 2022, and 70% of those deaths have been among the triple vaccinated population.
The Government of Canada produces a daily Covid-19 Epidemiology update, in which they sporadically provide new data on Covid-19 cases, hospitalisations and deaths as and when they feel like it.
The following table is taken from their 14th June update, found here, and shows the number of cases, hospitalisations and deaths by vaccination status up to May 29th 2022 –
Unfortunately, the Government of Canada is attempting to deceive the public by providing a tally of cases, hospitalisations and deaths that stretches all the way back to December 14th 2020. By doing this they’re able to include a huge wave that occurred in January 2021 when just 0.3% of the population of Canada was considered fully vaccinated.
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Very familiar with the UK reports. See the charts from week 13, the last week they reported this data in this format. Go back as far as the Fall and you'll see clearly that as the vax % goes up, the number of deaths follows in the Vaxxed population.
Not sure which of the hundreds of links in this thread you're speaking of but you can interpret the NEJM study how you'd like, and maybe you can get these guys to change the title of theirs if its so misleading
Serious Adverse Events of Special Interest Following mRNA Vaccination in Randomized Trials
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4125239
Results: Pfizer and Moderna mRNA COVID-19 vaccines were associated with an increased risk of serious adverse events of special interest, with an absolute risk increase of 10.1 and 15.1 per 10,000 vaccinated over placebo baselines of 17.6 and 42.2 (95% CI -0.4 to 20.6 and -3.6 to 33.8), respectively. Combined, the mRNA vaccines were associated with an absolute risk increase of serious adverse events of special interest of 12.5 per 10,000 (95% CI 2.1 to 22.9). The excess risk of serious adverse events of special interest surpassed the risk reduction for COVID-19 hospitalization relative to the placebo group in both Pfizer and Moderna trials (2.3 and 6.4 per 10,000 participants, respectively).
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Parley
Known around here
"Nice try, the Canadian numbers you show begins in early 2021 when. Almost nobody was vaxxed. Look at numbers for 2022 or even Dec 21 through May 22"
I noticed that the left does that a lot with the vax numbers. They start early in 2021 when the vaccine was not out in any numbers at all. It skews the numbers.
I noticed that the left does that a lot with the vax numbers. They start early in 2021 when the vaccine was not out in any numbers at all. It skews the numbers.
I'm making a general statement here, not analyzing the info quoted above. A few months after the vax became available our local hospital had a media campaign complete with highway billboards, showing how vaxxed were highly protected vs. unvaxxed. I researched and nitpicked that info, finding the headline claim was based on cooked data and fraudulent. Just one example of how "official" and "scientific" data is heavily cooked to favor the vax.
Parley
Known around here
The goal posts have been moving soon after the introduction of the vaccine. Now the story line is that you will not get as sick if you take the vaccine. I will take my chances.
Frankenscript did mention he had not been around here in a year, may account for his old data...he needs to backtrack on this Thread and read All the 100s of new studies and findings...Nice try, the Canadian numbers you show begins in early 2021 when. Almost nobody was vaxxed. Look at numbers for 2022 or even Dec 21 through May 22
The Government of Canada has confirmed that the vaccinated population account for 4 in every 5 Covid-19 deaths to have occurred across the country since the middle of February 2022, and 70% of those deaths have been among the triple vaccinated population.
The Government of Canada produces a daily Covid-19 Epidemiology update, in which they sporadically provide new data on Covid-19 cases, hospitalisations and deaths as and when they feel like it.
The following table is taken from their 14th June update, found here, and shows the number of cases, hospitalisations and deaths by vaccination status up to May 29th 2022 –
Source
Unfortunately, the Government of Canada is attempting to deceive the public by providing a tally of cases, hospitalisations and deaths that stretches all the way back to December 14th 2020. By doing this they’re able to include a huge wave that occurred in January 2021 when just 0.3% of the population of Canada was considered fully vaccinated.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Very familiar with the UK reports. See the charts from week 13, the last week they reported this data in this format
View attachment 131706
Not sure which of the hundreds of links in this thread you're speaking of but you can interpret the NEJM study how you'd like, and maybe you can get these guys to change the title of theirs if its so misleading
Serious Adverse Events of Special Interest Following mRNA Vaccination in Randomized Trials
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4125239
Results: Pfizer and Moderna mRNA COVID-19 vaccines were associated with an increased risk of serious adverse events of special interest, with an absolute risk increase of 10.1 and 15.1 per 10,000 vaccinated over placebo baselines of 17.6 and 42.2 (95% CI -0.4 to 20.6 and -3.6 to 33.8), respectively. Combined, the mRNA vaccines were associated with an absolute risk increase of serious adverse events of special interest of 12.5 per 10,000 (95% CI 2.1 to 22.9). The excess risk of serious adverse events of special interest surpassed the risk reduction for COVID-19 hospitalization relative to the placebo group in both Pfizer and Moderna trials (2.3 and 6.4 per 10,000 participants, respectively).
Parley
Known around here
Pfizer And Moderna Ask FDA To NOT TEST All Future Covid Jabs!
Big Pharma Wants To Skip ‘Clinical Trials’ of reformulated Covid Shots! The Court ordered release of the Pfizer documents were so damaging, Pfizer wants the FDA to make sure they don’t have to show or do trials ever again for Covid. Don’t worry, known liars say it is safe and effective, so shut up and obey. Or….. watch the video.
Pfizer And Moderna Ask FDA To NOT TEST All Future Covid Jabs! - The New American
Big Pharma Wants To Skip ‘Clinical Trials’ of reformulated Covid Shots! The Court ordered release of the Pfizer documents were so damaging, Pfizer wants the FDA to make sure they don’t have to show or do trials ever again for Covid. Don’t worry, known liars say it is safe and effective, so shut up and obey. Or….. watch the video.
Pfizer And Moderna Ask FDA To NOT TEST All Future Covid Jabs! - The New American
Parley
Known around here
I am surprised that he did not go the monticlonal antibody shot route again. If I should get it, that is the route I will go plus a few other things.
Frankenscript
Known around here
- Dec 21, 2017
- 1,288
- 1,201
Nice try, the Canadian numbers you show begins in early 2021 when. Almost nobody was vaxxed. Look at numbers for 2022 or even Dec 21 through May 22
The Government of Canada has confirmed that the vaccinated population account for 4 in every 5 Covid-19 deaths to have occurred across the country since the middle of February 2022, and 70% of those deaths have been among the triple vaccinated population.
The Government of Canada produces a daily Covid-19 Epidemiology update, in which they sporadically provide new data on Covid-19 cases, hospitalisations and deaths as and when they feel like it.
The following table is taken from their 14th June update, found here, and shows the number of cases, hospitalisations and deaths by vaccination status up to May 29th 2022 –
Source
Unfortunately, the Government of Canada is attempting to deceive the public by providing a tally of cases, hospitalisations and deaths that stretches all the way back to December 14th 2020. By doing this they’re able to include a huge wave that occurred in January 2021 when just 0.3% of the population of Canada was considered fully vaccinated.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Very familiar with the UK reports. See the charts from week 13, the last week they reported this data in this format
View attachment 131706
Not sure which of the hundreds of links in this thread you're speaking of but you can interpret the NEJM study how you'd like, and maybe you can get these guys to change the title of theirs if its so misleading
Serious Adverse Events of Special Interest Following mRNA Vaccination in Randomized Trials
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4125239
Results: Pfizer and Moderna mRNA COVID-19 vaccines were associated with an increased risk of serious adverse events of special interest, with an absolute risk increase of 10.1 and 15.1 per 10,000 vaccinated over placebo baselines of 17.6 and 42.2 (95% CI -0.4 to 20.6 and -3.6 to 33.8), respectively. Combined, the mRNA vaccines were associated with an absolute risk increase of serious adverse events of special interest of 12.5 per 10,000 (95% CI 2.1 to 22.9). The excess risk of serious adverse events of special interest surpassed the risk reduction for COVID-19 hospitalization relative to the placebo group in both Pfizer and Moderna trials (2.3 and 6.4 per 10,000 participants, respectively).
@bigredfish, thanks for the link to the UK report your are citing. The main problem is that you are looking at the wrong table from which to draw conclusions. Of course, most deaths in the UK are among vaccinated persons... most of the UK (over 90%) is vaccinated and most non-vaccinated persons have already had the disease at least once. Still, there's significant benefit shown in the data to having been vaxxed. You should have cited table 14, which is the rate of death per 100k population in each cohort. In EVERY SINGLE METRIC for hospitalization and death, the vaccinated cohort had a lower rate (of hospitalization or death) than the unvaccinated group:
You will note that CASES reported among vaxxed are higher than among unvaxxed; this is an inherent bias in self-reporting of illness. People who bother to get vaxxed are more likely to report it and seek care when they get sick. For those that were sick enough to go to the ER and kept (severe disease starts here), the metrics are less biased because the reporting is done through official hospital channels. Please read the various footnotes and referenced sections which describe why this raw data isn't on it's own a measure of vaccine effectiveness. Pages 11-13 cover the effectiveness but I like to look at the raw data (per 100k population for each cohort) to get a more granular feel for what's going on. The data are pretty clear that you are better off with the vaccine than without.
I wondered why there is no longitudinal (data over time) chart in evidence, given that we use these in the US all the time to compare vaxxed and unvaxxed populations. Briefly I wondered, could my friends at IPCAMTALK be on to something? But then I found this government site that cleared it up. Go to the Antibodies tab:
Essentially, everybody in the UK is already vaccinated, or has antibodies from a prior infection.
Per the official websites from UK, well over 90% of the population is vaxxed to some extent. So, unvaxxed folks in the UK are a rarity and "naive" people (no vax or prior infection) at this point are almost non-existent. That explains the lack of longitudinal comparison data in the UK reports. It wouldn't be statistically valid for the unvaxxed cohort.
OK, back to Canada:
The Feb through May data shows lots of folks dying that were vaxxed but remember, Canadians are a highly vaxxed population (not as much as UK, but close). Still, I was able to find longitudinal data comparing cohorts (rate per 100k) for Ontario:
If you are old and don't want to die of COVID-19, the case for vaccination is even clearer:
All this data AND REPORTING comes direct from the Canadian public health organization so it hasn't been monkeyed with or "spun" by anyone. Perhaps Quebec has similar data reports but there's no reason to think the data would look much different.
Believe it or not, I AGREE WITH YOU that some of the tables bandied about that go way back are misleading. Summing data from a long time ago before vaccines had a chance to be taken up by most people, with current data, makes little sense. That's why I prefer to find either recent time periods (such as the UK data) or better longitudinal reports (like above from Canada, or what I reported from Indiana yesterday).
A good question is: why are many states (notably Texas, Florida...) not reporting in a convenient way their longitudinal vaxxed versus unvaxxed severe case / death data?
Maybe this is useful to some of you, maybe not. I don't spend much of my time arguing about stuff like this online anymore because I'd rather use my time in other ways, like figuring out how to position cameras to best effect on my new back porch. I'll probably post a thread on that in a week or so. I've also gotten back in to keeping a planted fish tank, which has been dry for 16 years driving my wife nuts (it has been in our living room all that time, behind a screen my wife put there to hide it).
I've unwatched this thread but if you actually are interested in my thoughts on an article or something similar, as someone with a scientific and clinical trials background, you know how to tag me, but I'm done arguing online over things rooted in deep ideological divides. (Arguments about how evil and annoying Microsoft is are the exception.) One thing the pandemic has taught me is that there's only so much time in my life, and I am very fortunate to have many productive things to do with that time. I spend my work time on "healthcare/trial issues" and prefer to use my recreational time in other ways. Even if we see things differently, I value you all and applaud your efforts to dig into the numbers. Keep it up, just check your sources and assumptions!
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Smilingreen
Known around here
"Remember, the audience for NEJM isn't you, or Zerohedge or wherever you got the link from. Their audience is doctors and scientists who understand the limitations of this type of study."
Yeah, I love this kind of condescending rebuttal to try and discourage us "common folk" who don't have a bunch of paper hanging on our wall to prove we are qualified to interpret data. I have no idea who Frankenscript is, I am sure he is a nice guy and all, but please don't come on here stating us common folk without a wall full of degrees are not intelligent enough to utilize modern technology to fill in the gaps for all the acronyms the medical and scientific community use. Save that for your Twitter or TikTok audience. Most of us here are technical and intelligent enough in nature to be able to interpret what is being said. Enuff said?
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What I have come to find in my short life is this.
figures never lie.
Liars always figure.
Publish charts till the cows come home and blow in my ear, I have not seen anyone of these people tell the truth yet!
How does one know if ANY of these charts, any one of them is true?
figures never lie.
Liars always figure.
Publish charts till the cows come home and blow in my ear, I have not seen anyone of these people tell the truth yet!
How does one know if ANY of these charts, any one of them is true?
bigredfish
Known around here
I had a great big FU paragraph written for that but arguing with those who pray to the narrative is futile. Been there done that with him.
I’ll just let those who would rather play word games explain to the families of the roughly 3600 dead vaxxed why their unadjusted rate is better than than that of the roughly 300 dead unvaxxed for that weekly time period. (And just about every time period since a large segment of the population has been vaxxed going back to the Fall of ‘21)
I’ll just let those who would rather play word games explain to the families of the roughly 3600 dead vaxxed why their unadjusted rate is better than than that of the roughly 300 dead unvaxxed for that weekly time period. (And just about every time period since a large segment of the population has been vaxxed going back to the Fall of ‘21)
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