The installer makes money on the material, because he sources it, carry's some cost associated with possessing it for however long, dealing with the paperwork (tax certs, etc) and warrantying it. Ask him how much he is going to charge you to come back and fix a camera you provided vs a camera he provided. There is some mark-up built in there to cover the chance he may have to come back free of charge to service something. If you want to provide your own to save some cash, it's on you when something breaks. His mark-up on materials is the price of piece of mind, like you initially said is important to you.
Please help me with security system for an optical shop
- Thread starter ilan1h2020
- Start date
I think BICSI made exceptions to their normal standards of terminating the permanent horizontal cabling to accommodate security installations. Does anyone keep current with their TDMM?
zero-degrees
Known around here
- Aug 15, 2015
- 1,335
- 844
BICSI.... When I hear that word I just want to club the person who said it... While BICSI standards have there place in the world they also are somewhat pure bullshit as we do NOT live in a perfect world. New build situations, sure, retro fit, not always going to work. People who normally say "Well BICSI says to xxxxxx" are normally just being assholes (not saying you are - just citing personal experience) . At anyrate BICSI didn't make an "exceptions" that I am aware of however they did put out some different POE standards/recommendations as it relates to POE when used within security hardware. Below is a link to a presentation from them - I sat through a similar one last year that was different, but this is along the same lines.
POE as it relates to newer devices:
https://www.bicsi.org/uploadedFiles/BICSI_Website/Global_Community/Presentations/Caribbean/1.09%20Signamax.pdf
*Edit
They did NOT change standards in the latest release - Version 13. Still follows same POE standards for cabling- max 300' (295) and Same Connectors 8p8c for Cat 3,5,5e,6,6A and this is in line with ISO/IEC & ANSI/TIA. It also does NOT make any special exceptions for running cable any distance from term point to end term point in device. All standards still speak and show patch panels/comm closets/and keystone jacks in office installs. There is nothing specific for security cameras that I see - which means if you follow BICSI for a security camera install your installing crap and adding failure points.
POE as it relates to newer devices:
https://www.bicsi.org/uploadedFiles/BICSI_Website/Global_Community/Presentations/Caribbean/1.09%20Signamax.pdf
*Edit
They did NOT change standards in the latest release - Version 13. Still follows same POE standards for cabling- max 300' (295) and Same Connectors 8p8c for Cat 3,5,5e,6,6A and this is in line with ISO/IEC & ANSI/TIA. It also does NOT make any special exceptions for running cable any distance from term point to end term point in device. All standards still speak and show patch panels/comm closets/and keystone jacks in office installs. There is nothing specific for security cameras that I see - which means if you follow BICSI for a security camera install your installing crap and adding failure points.
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It may be your prefered method, but it's not the correct method and as for attenuation, you know (or should know) that's with propoerly terminated cables that is not a factor in this scenario.
IP cameras are no different to any other IP endoint device (10/100 PoE IP devices like IP phones, AP's etc) and should be treated as such. If you have a different view, so be it, but terminating solidcore in that way is poor practice and should not be encouraged.
You do not need to all datacentre crazy, but you should expect the cables to be terminated correctly, (a jack and a patch pannel).
Heck, for 10 cables, (20 end points) it'll probably save you the cost of the jacks/panel in labour! punchdown is way faster and less error prone than 8P8C.
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fenderman
Staff member
- Mar 9, 2014
- 36,892
- 21,408
So do you put a jack on the camera side? If so that is insane and makes a mess of things. There is no reason for punchdown panels other than it can be a little neater. I have never seen a solid cable break because it was not punched down. Attenuation should be considered on runs close to the 100m limitation of ethernet. EVERY break in the cable introduces attenuation. If someone put a jack on the camera side of an install I would make them take it out. Not sure how many cams you have installed but that is NOT the industry standard method on the camera side. On the switch side it can be done, but there is no reason to.
A week ago you recommend using splitter adapters to power cameras with incorrect voltage (setting aside that it looks like crap and introduces another pint of failure an corrosion - particularly outdoors). https://www.ipcamtalk.com/showthrea...-to-an-IP-Camera?p=74796&viewfull=1#post74796
Then pompously yet incorrectly not undestand how poe works https://www.ipcamtalk.com/showthrea...-to-an-IP-Camera?p=74805&viewfull=1#post74805
Now you are the expert in proper cable installs. You are kidding right?