PoE Switch Suggestions

6010fd12

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So I'm designing a cctv system for my new house. It will be prewired with Cat-6a and consist of 16 PoE cameras mostly Ankee C800 4k cameras and a small amount of 1080p cameras that I have yet to choose. The entire system will be running on blue Iris with home assistant for notification and such. I am using the 3 pack google wifi routers(since I already have them) and in the future if needed I will switch to ubiquiti.

I want to know if someone could recommend a 16 port 802.3at switch with PoE on all ports that could handle this setup(amazon links prefered). I'm looking for something on the cheaper side of things that would work for this occasion. Also I wanted to ask should I go with a mannaged or unmanaged switch. I just want to be able to restrict ports for the cameras and setup a vpn(vps?) To tunnel into if I want to securely view the cameras from an outside network and I'm not sure if I can do that from the Google wifi or if I need a managed switch for that.
 
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sebastiantombs

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I'd say to stay away from lower priced switches whether managed or unmanaged. They all use lower end switching power supplies. I had a "less expensive" one that wouldn't start under load, recovering from a power failure. It bit the dust the third time that happened.

That said, right now switches are a little sparse, like everything else. If you anticipate 16 ports it's a good idea to plan for 24 ports. It's also best, IMHO, to use two switches rather than one, IE two 16 port. That way of one fails you have some extra ports available to plug in more critical cameras while waiting for a replacement. This is the switch I'm using, two of actually, on a separate NIC and network for security. Nelly's Security is a vendor on here and has an excellent reputation.

 

IAmATeaf

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You’ll need a switch with more than 16 ports as you’ll also need a port for either uplinking or to use to connect the BI PC?

For managed/unmanaged, that will all depend on what or how you want to manage your network, if everything will be on the same network then a managed switch will help with segregating the cams.
 

6010fd12

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You’ll need a switch with more than 16 ports as you’ll also need a port for either uplinking or to use to connect the BI PC?
You honestly made me laugh out loud. I really can't believe I forgot about that lol. Luckily though the user above reccomended a 16 port with an unlink as well.


I'd say to stay away from lower priced switches whether managed or unmanaged. They all use lower end switching power supplies. I had a "less expensive" one that wouldn't start under load, recovering from a power failure. It bit the dust the third time that happened.

That said, right now switches are a little sparse, like everything else. If you anticipate 16 ports it's a good idea to plan for 24 ports. It's also best, IMHO, to use two switches rather than one, IE two 16 port. That way of one fails you have some extra ports available to plug in more critical cameras while waiting for a replacement. This is the switch I'm using, two of actually, on a separate NIC and network for security. Nelly's Security is a vendor on here and has an excellent reputation.

Thank you. This is exactly the type of switch I was looking for. I know I should plan for purchasing an additional switch but right now I'm just on a very tight budget and in the future if need be I can surely expand. I still need to find a switch that I will be using for the home network and not the for the cameras. I just wanted to have a dedicated switch for the cameras.
 

SouthernYankee

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Do not use the Ankee cameras. They are not very good. Please read the wiki.

Do not get suck in to the more mp the better. Look at the sensor size.

Buy one good variable focus camera and test each planned mounting location. Test at night with motion. Use a bad guy wearing a hoodie, can you I'd them, will the video stand up in court. If not you have wasted your money. If you cameras are mounted over 7ft up, you will be able to tell what happened but not who did it.
 

6010fd12

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Do not use the Ankee cameras. They are not very good. Please read the wiki.

Do not get suck in to the more mp the better. Look at the sensor size.

Buy one good variable focus camera and test each planned mounting location. Test at night with motion. Use a bad guy wearing a hoodie, can you I'd them, will the video stand up in court. If not you have wasted your money. If you cameras are mounted over 7ft up, you will be able to tell what happened but not who did it.
I decided on the Ankee C800 after watching The Hook Up's video on comparing cameras. I will definitly read the wiki when I get home. I already purchased 4 C800's a while back but I guess I can use those as indoor cameras and find better outdoor ones. Are there any specific ones you would recommend that would work with my setup?

I found this one. It's a 24 port on newegg that says ships from China. Any red flags to look out for here? It shows a similar model number to the one you reccomend but with 16 replaced for 24 for the port number. I don't mind shipping times being long.
 

wittaj

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Do not follow anything the Hookup says or you will get burned just like other new members that came here AFTER being burned by him. He gets affiliate pay for everything he recommends.

Just do a search on the Hookup on this forum and find all the "I've been burned by the hookup" posts...

Here is one master thread just on being burned on the hookup with one particular manufacturer:

 
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wittaj

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You need to identify the areas you want to cover and pick a camera designed to cover that distance. In some instances, it may be a 2MP or 4MP that is the right camera. Based on what you are showing, unless you mount lower, fixed cams will only be good overview points but not IDENTIFY capable.

If you buy all 2.8mm fixed cams, after the newness wears off of the wide angle, you will start to see that they are useless.

It is easy to get lured in to thinking the wide angle "see the whole neighborhood" because you are watching it and you see a neighbor go by and you are like "Look at that I can tell that is Heather out walking." and "Yeah I can tell our neighbor 4 down just passed by". Or you watch back the video of you walking around and are like "yeah I can tell that is me".

Little do we realize how much WE can identify a known person just by hair style, clothing, walking pace, gait, etc.

Then one day the door checker comes by. Total stranger. Totally useless video other than what time the door checking happened.

Then you realize that this wide-angle see the whole neighborhood comes at a cost and that cost is not being able to IDENTIFY who did it. These 2.8mm wide angle cameras are great overview cameras or to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet of the camera. At 40 feet out you need a different camera.

So then we start adding more cameras and varifocal cameras so that we can optically zoom in to pinch points and other areas of interest to get the clean IDENTIFY captures of someone. While the varifocals are great at helping to identify at a distance, they come at a cost of a reduced field of view, just like the wide-angles are great at seeing a wide area, but they come at the expense of IDENTIFY at distance.

It is why we recommend to purchase one good varifocal and test it at all the proposed locations day and night to figure out the correct focal lengths and cams.

A few other tips....It is simple LOL do not chase MP - do not buy a 4MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/1.8" sensor. Do not buy a 2MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/2.8" sensor. Do not buy a 4K (8MP) camera on anything smaller than a 1/1.2" sensor. Unfortunately, most 4k (8MP) cams are on the same sensor as a 2MP and thus the 2MP will kick its butt all night long as the 4k will need 4 times the light than the 2MP... 4k will do very poor at night unless you have stadium quality lighting (well a lot of lighting LOL). Starlight, ColorVu, Full Color, etc. are simply marketing terms, so don't be sold on those names.

While we are at it, let's make sure you get the right camera...

To identify someone with the wide-angle 2.8mm lens that most people opt for, someone would have to be within 13 feet of the camera, but realistically within 10 feet after you dial it in to your settings.


1639680440410.png




My neighbor was bragging to me how he only needed his four 2.8mm fixed lens 4k cams to see his entire property and the street and his whole backyard. His car was sitting in the driveway practically touching the garage door and his video quality was useless to ID the perp not even 10 feet away. Meanwhile my 2MP varifocal optically zoomed 60 feet away to the public sidewalk provided the money shot to the police to get my neighbors all their stuff back. Nobody else had video that could provide anything useful, other than what time this motion blur ghost was at their car.

Here are my general distance recommendations, but switch out the Dahua 5442 series camera to the equivalent 2MP on the 1/2.8" sensor or equivalent Hikvision works as well. These cameras meet all your requirements.
  • 5442 fixed lens 2.8mm - anything within 10 feet of camera OR as an overview camera
  • 5442 ZE - varifocal - distances up to 40-50 feet (personally I wouldn't go past the 30 foot range but I like things closer)
  • 5442 Z4E - anything up to 80-100 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 60 feet but I like things closer)
  • 5241-Z12E - anything from 80 feet to almost 200 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 150 feet because I like things closer)
  • 5241-Z12E - for a license plate cam that you would angle up the street to get plates up to about 175 feet away, or up to 220 with additional IR.
  • 49225 PTZ - great auto-track PTZ and in conjunction with an NVR or Blue Iris and the cameras above that you can use as spotter cams to point the PTZ to the correct location to compliment the fixed cams.
You need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A wide angle 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who.

One camera cannot be the be all, see all. Each one is selected for covering a specific area. Most of us here have different brands and types, from fixed cams, to varifocals, to PTZs, each one selected for it's primary purpose and to utilize the strength of that particular camera.

So you will need to identify the distance the camera would be from the activities you want to IDENTIFY on and purchase the correct camera for that distance as an optical zoom.

If you want to see things far away, you need optical zoom, digital zoom only works in the movies and TV...And the optical zoom is done real time - for a varifocal it is a set it and forget it. You cannot go to recorded video and optically zoom in later, at that point it is digital zoom, and the sensors on these cameras are so small which is why digital zoom doesn't work very well after the fact.

Main keys are you can't locate the camera too high (not on the 2nd story or above 7 feet high unless it is for overview and not Identification purposes unless it is a PTZ or varifocal that can "flatten the angle by optically zooming further out) or chase MP and you need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who. Also, do not chase marketing phrases like ColorVu and Starlight and Full Color and the like - all cameras need light - simple physics...

It is was saying again....We recommend a purchase of one good varifocal and test it at all the proposed locations day and night to figure out the correct focal lengths and cams.


A trusted vendor here is Andy @EMPIRETECANDY that sells Dahua and Hikvision OEM cameras.

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sebastiantombs

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I decided on the Ankee C800 after watching The Hook Up's video on comparing cameras. I will definitly read the wiki when I get home. I already purchased 4 C800's a while back but I guess I can use those as indoor cameras and find better outdoor ones. Are there any specific ones you would recommend that would work with my setup?



I found this one. It's a 24 port on newegg that says ships from China. Any red flags to look out for here? It shows a similar model number to the one you reccomend but with 16 replaced for 24 for the port number. I don't mind shipping times being long.
Other than all your eggs in one basket, no.

I'll second what everyone has said about Ankee cameras and not chasing megapixels. As @looney2ns always says "you want to know who did what and when, not that something happened" and "pay once cry once" when it comes to cameras.

Quick guide -

The smaller the lux number the better the low light performance. 0.002 is better than 0.02
The smaller the "F" of the lens the better the low light performance. F1.4 is better than F1.8
The larger the sensor the better the low light performance. 1/1.8" is better (bigger) than 1/2.7"
The higher the megapixels for the same size sensor the worse the low light performance. A 4MP camera with a 1/1.8" sensor will perform better than a 8MP camera with that same 1/1.8" sensor.

720P - 1/3" = .333"
2MP - 1/2.8" = .357" (think a .38 caliber bullet)
4MP - 1/1.8" = .555" (bigger than a .50 caliber bullet or ball)
8MP - 1/1.2" = .833" (bigger than a 20mm chain gun round)

Don't believe all the marketing hype no matter who makes the camera. Don't believe those nice night time captures they all use. Look for videos, with motion, to determine low light performance. Any camera can be made to "see" color at night if the exposure time is long enough, as in half a second or longer. Rule of thumb, the shutter speed needs to be at 1/60 or higher to get night video without blurring.

Read the reviews here, most include both still shots and video.
 

wittaj

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^+1 this exactly.

Isn't everyone an expert on YouTube LOL...just remember many of those videos are by people being paid promotional/affiliate dollars by a vendor and/or receiving revenue by YouTube based on number of hits they get. In the past few months we have seen many people come here after being burned by a YouTuber... Plus, when someone has 200,000+ subscribers, inevitably they will start to push consumer grade stuff that is "plug-n-play" because they do not want to take thousands of posts asking what does this setting do and what does that do...

Plus the YouTube videos tend to be full productions for the likes and thus YouTube revenue, where the folks here post videos for the sole sake of letting others know how well or not the cameras perform. Now some here do an excellent job of post-production of the reviews of cameras with text narrative and overlays of the settings, etc., but most of us just put out raw video for you to see for yourself.

A great camera can be placed at the wrong spot, which then leads to bad reviews on an otherwise great camera. Likewise, a novice surveillance camera user goes by static images and boasts about how great a camera is when it really isn't very good with motion. So if someone calls it a security camera, then maybe do not put much stock in what they say :lmao:

This forum allows others to actually see videos of these cameras at locations and can then make a determination on if that is similar to their situation (lighting, distance, etc.) and would that camera be the right or wrong selection for what they are trying to achieve.

Unlike the YouTubers that make videos under ideal conditions and they stop in the frame, and yes any camera can look good if the subject stops, when folks here post videos, it is of them in motion simulating a door checker, etc.

This is a still image example from a manufacturer marketing video - a camera that many YouTube influencers recommend (two new influencers on the net just this past month) - do you see a person in this picture...yes, there is a person in this picture. Could this provide anything useful for the police? Would this protect your home? The still picture looks great though except for the person and the blur of the vehicle... ill give you a hint - the person is in between the two columns:

1639849469414.png


Bad Boys
Bad Boys
Watcha gonna do
Watcha gonna do
When the camera can't see you
 

6010fd12

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Thank you everyone. I'm going to read everything you've written and the wiki as well and come up with a plan of action. It's difficult to assume the viewing distances needed since the house isn't built yet and we only have plans so far but I'm going to come up with some ideas and reply back. I'm very thankful this community is so helpful. :)
 

wittaj

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In that case, resist the urge to buy the cameras until after the house is built, or at least framed where you can walk around and assess it.

Buy one varifocal and test at all your proposed locations and then buy the correct camera for what you want to accomplish.

Here is a thread where someone bought all the cameras at once and is now dealing with them not accomplishing what he wants. And these are absolutely great cameras. The best and really only recommended 4K camera on the market right now. But a great camera placed in the wrong spot will produce less than desirable results:

 

sebastiantombs

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If the house isn't built yet, now is the time to plan on where cameras will go since wiring can be installed during construction easily that will be much more difficult to reach after the fact. It also pays to pull two cables to each camera location, just in case. All wire needs to be solid copper, not CCA (copper clad aluminum), CAT5e or CAT6 and riser rated, CMR, for use inside walls and between floors.

My typical layout is two cameras on each side of the house looking back toward each other. This has every camera "watched" by another. If the side is longer than 50 feet or so I add a third camera looking straight out to fill in any blank spots. If the house has projections/extensions, like bays or breakfast nooks, more cameras are needed in that case. At each entry door another camera facing straight out and no higher than seven feet. At an entry where packages will be left add another camera pointed down to watch that area. A single car garage needs two cameras, one mounted on each side of the garage door and no higher than the top of the door. If it's a two car garage another camera is needed mounted in the center and no higher than the top of the door, in other words "number of cars plus one".
 

mat200

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I decided on the Ankee C800 after watching The Hook Up's video on comparing cameras.

..
Welcome @6010fd12

" .. I decided on the Ankee C800 after watching The Hook Up's video on comparing cameras. .. "

:eek: :facepalm: :highfive: :lol: :winktongue: :rofl: :lmao:

Guess it's time for a complete upgrade to Reolink then ... /S


FWIW ... after reviewing the past Hookup youtube reviews I've noticed enough qualitative issues which have lead me to doubt his assessments.
As such, I can not recommend following his recommendations blindly, and in fact I now start with "ok, now what is he misrepresenting or over looking this time .. "

more info here on that:

On another note, the most critical thing many fail to do well .. is run the cables to the proper places / positions.

Many people place the cameras too high, and fail to run enough lines ..
 

Flintstone61

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After sweating my balls off in the attic and kneeling on roofing nails hidden in the insulation, I wish i woulda pulled Cat5e alongside the Nightowl CCTV analog cables.
In some locations, 2 drops is a good idea. Esp if you decide to add a POE IR light, or an Overview cam with an additional " focused" camera concentrating on hi value targets.
 

wittaj

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After sweating my balls off in the attic and kneeling on roofing nails hidden in the insulation, I wish i woulda pulled Cat5e alongside the Nightowl CCTV analog cables.
In some locations, 2 drops is a good idea. Esp if you decide to add a POE IR light, or an Overview cam with an additional " focused" camera concentrating on hi value targets.
These do wonders for those analog cables where you don't wanna pull cable again LOL.

 
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mat200

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So I'm designing a cctv system for my new house. It will be prewired with Cat-6a and consist of 16 PoE cameras mostly Ankee C800 4k cameras and a small amount of 1080p cameras that I have yet to choose. The entire system will be running on blue Iris with home assistant for notification and such. I am using the 3 pack google wifi routers(since I already have them) and in the future if needed I will switch to ubiquiti.

I want to know if someone could recommend a 16 port 802.3at switch with PoE on all ports that could handle this setup(amazon links prefered). I'm looking for something on the cheaper side of things that would work for this occasion. Also I wanted to ask should I go with a mannaged or unmanaged switch. I just want to be able to restrict ports for the cameras and setup a vpn(vps?) To tunnel into if I want to securely view the cameras from an outside network and I'm not sure if I can do that from the Google wifi or if I need a managed switch for that.
Hi @6010fd12

What stage of the house build are you on right now?
 
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