PoE Switch Suggestions

[looney2ns]

On a real computer, study this: Cliff Notes
Congrats on coming here with questions prior to the house being completed. Far too many come here after the fact, and it's too late.
Don't cheap out on the POE switch, your whole system relies on it.

 

[sebastiantombs]

I should have mentioned that pulling an 18/2 or 16/2, CMR rated wire to each corner of the house is a good idea as well. That can support multiple auxiliary IR illuminators easily and keeps that load off the PoE switch(es).

 

[Gargoile]

Also pull an extra cable per drop. Then in the future if you want to add more it's already there and in most cases you will want too. This will also serve as a back up if anything happens to the first cable. Running the cables is cheap at this point. After the drywall and all is up it will be a PITA and will cost you more....., more headache, more money, more painting, more repair and more &^%$^%$## words..

 

[6010fd12]

Hi @6010fd12

What stage of the house build are you on right now?

Currently we just got the entire layout of the house drawn and the civil engineers have placed the house on the land and gave us a survey of it. Next up is the loan and getting the plans looked at by the municipal for all the permits and stuff.

I should have mentioned that pulling an 18/2 or 16/2, CMR rated wire to each corner of the house is a good idea as well. That can support multiple auxiliary IR illuminators easily and keeps that load off the PoE switch(es).

I was already planning on doing Cat6a to each corner drop so no worries there . Can you link a brief overview video that explains the whole auxiliary IR illuminators. I would like to learn more about them.

 

[sebastiantombs]

In terms of CAT6a, CaAT5e and CAT6 are both serious overkill for a camera. They are both gig rated and a camera, even an 8MP camera at a high frame and bit rate, won't even get to 20Mb/ps.

I don't know of any video explanations for what IR illuminators can accomplish. What I can tell you is that I use one, large 30 watt model, to light my backyard that's about 250 by 200 feet. None of the cameras back there, and there are four on the house and three on a shed, have their IR illuminators on. None of them are triggered by fog, snow or rain and I never have spider web/bug problems with them.

IR illuminators in the cameras are very close, relatively speaking to the camera lens. This puts concentrated light on fog, rain and snow making it highly visible and messing with motion detection pretty seriously. Spiders love it because bugs can see it and are attracted to it. Somewhere here on IPCT there's a photo of a camera that is barely visible for all the spider webs on it. The auxiliary illuminators are normally mounted off to one side, by a few feet. That eliminates the precipitation problems and keeps the spiders away from the camera.

 

[samplenhold]

Another thing to consider on the POE switch. You need to know just how much wattage each cam will pull.

On a POE switch there are two numbers that impact you. One is the total wattage the switch can supply. Sometimes that is dependent on which Power Adapter you purchase with the switch. The other is the maximum wattage per port that can be supplied. Some switches automatically balance the PoE power based on the device needs independent of PoE class detected.

These two numbers are independent of each other. Say you buy the Netgear GS305P which has 4 POE ports and a fifth that is not POE which could be used as an uplink port. The switch has a 15.4W Max power per POE port and a total Power budget of 55W. If all four of your POE ports were drawing the max, 15.4 watts, that would be 61.6 watts, which is over the max budget of 55W.

So it is imperative you know how much the POE draw for each of your cams will be. In this switch scenario, what if you had a Dahua SD49225T-HN PTZ cam that has an advertised draw of 13-20 watts? Once that cam draws more than 15.4 watts, there will be problems.

 

[Flintstone61]

^^^+1 ---Thus the 24 port switch mentioned, giving you more overhead in terms of total wattage available.

 

[Flintstone61]

Me? i picked up a used Cisco 3560x enterprise switch on ebay. My Blue iris installation is in a Rack for a commercial property, and I can't add total watts well. so....AT power for everyone ! LOL...24 ports of 802.3at with a 715 watt power supply and a spare 1100 watt power supply from a 48 Port version.
I forget the total budget of watts available to the ports, but i don't think each port can have a full 802.3 at budget.
802.3af power is going to be fine for almost all of the cameras.
I have 1 PTZ requiring 802.3at power.
in hindsight i could have probably purchased a less power hungry switch. but the other thing is that it's just idling along, barely getting a workout.
not at the bleeding edge of maximum capabilities.

 

[Flintstone61]

Sadly, I must report that I am running low on Ports. Shoulda woulda Coulda. Probably be buying the 48 port version next.

 

[icpilot]

Another thing to consider on the POE switch. You need to know just how much wattage each cam will pull.

On a POE switch there are two numbers that impact you. One is the total wattage the switch can supply. Sometimes that is dependent on which Power Adapter you purchase with the switch. The other is the maximum wattage per port that can be supplied. Some switches automatically balance the PoE power based on the device needs independent of PoE class detected.

These two numbers are independent of each other. Say you buy the Netgear GS305P which has 4 POE ports and a fifth that is not POE which could be used as an uplink port. The switch has a 15.4W Max power per POE port and a total Power budget of 55W. If all four of your POE ports were drawing the max, 15.4 watts, that would be 61.6 watts, which is over the max budget of 55W.

So it is imperative you know how much the POE draw for each of your cams will be. In this switch scenario, what if you had a Dahua SD49225T-HN PTZ cam that has an advertised draw of 13-20 watts? Once that cam draws more than 15.4 watts, there will be problems.

At night, when the IR lights are also drawing power, my 49225 draws as much as 19.8 watts - see attached screenshot, the 49225 was drawing 17.6 at that moment ...



Separately, an IR illuminator in a different area of the property is on its own Cat6 cable and draws 12.7 watts at night.

The switch I decided on is a used Aruba S2500-48P enterprise level switch. It has 52 ports available, which include 4x 10GB ports. The POE power budget is 400 watts and each of the normal ports can supply up to 30 watts, subject to the 400 watt total budget. It's a managed switch with a bit of a learning curve, but the capabilities are well worth the learning curve. The only downside will be if the permanent location for the switch is sensitive to noise or is not air-conditioned. The switch has fans which are very loud on boot-up, but then quiet down for normal operations. At night when the cameras start pulling additional power for their IR lights, the fans kick up to provide the POE power supply extra cooling, and it would be distracting in an open environment. If inside a server closet with proper air flow and cooling, there is no problem.

IHTH

 

[mat200]

Currently we just got the entire layout of the house drawn and the civil engineers have placed the house on the land and gave us a survey of it. Next up is the loan and getting the plans looked at by the municipal for all the permits and stuff.



I was already planning on doing Cat6a to each corner drop so no worries there . Can you link a brief overview video that explains the whole auxiliary IR illuminators. I would like to learn more about them.

Hi @6010fd12

Excellent, right now the best time to determine where you want to run the low voltage lines ..

N+1+ .. plan to run a cable to each location you have a fixed internet connected asset .. like TV / Desktop / Stereo / Media Center / Access Point / IoT something or another .. and of course security camera .. etc ..

In terms of switches, if you have enough room - enterprise quality switches are nice .. a bit loud so I like to isolate them in a properly vented "data closet" ( hope you've added some location on your floor plan for a small IT "closet" )

You can find some nice used IT enterprise quality switches at times .. try not to get ones which are too old though .. 1st time off lease imho is the best .. ( leased equipment often 3year terms .. )

 

[6010fd12]

Hi @6010fd12

Excellent, right now the best time to determine where you want to run the low voltage lines ..

N+1+ .. plan to run a cable to each location you have a fixed internet connected asset .. like TV / Desktop / Stereo / Media Center / Access Point / IoT something or another .. and of course security camera .. etc ..

In terms of switches, if you have enough room - enterprise quality switches are nice .. a bit loud so I like to isolate them in a properly vented "data closet" ( hope you've added some location on your floor plan for a small IT "closet" )

You can find some nice used IT enterprise quality switches at times .. try not to get ones which are too old though .. 1st time off lease imho is the best .. ( leased equipment often 3year terms .. )

Thanks for the heads up. Right now the best "Server room" that I have planned is the utility room with the furnace and water heater(I know, probably the worst place possible). It's fairly big so I will probably ask them to put in a wall or enclosure around part of the room to house the electronic equiptment.

Also I wanted to ask is Nelly's Surplus a legit site? Idk why but for some reason it just strikes me as one of those sites that lists items for way lower than msrp and doesn't ship out the item after you order it. Probably not the case but I'd figure I ask.

Also what is the difference between these two switches?

IPCamPower IPCP-16P2G-AF2 16 Port POE Switch W/ 2 Gigabit Uplinks for IP Security Cameras

Used, Good condition, has accessories. The IPCP-16P2G-AF2 is a business class PoE switch that was designed for IP camera systems that utilize 16 IP cameras or less. This switch has 16 10/100 PoE powered ports with 2 additional 10/100/1000 gigabit non-powered uplink ports. Provides Standard PoE...

nellyssurplus.com

IPCamPower IPCP-24P2G-EXAF 24 Port POE Network Switch for IP Security Cameras with 2 Gigabit Uplink Ports

Great Condition!!! Slightly used, has accessories! Box may have damage to it, but the damage does not hinder the performance of the POE Switch. 24 POE PORTS W/ 2 ADDITIONAL NON POWERED GIGABIT RATED PORTS - This unmanaged POE switch is actually a 26 Port switch in total. (24) 10/100 POE Rated...

nellyssurplus.com

 

[Teken]

Both those switches are underpowered and support 10/100 don’t waste your time or money.

 

[6010fd12]

Both those switches are underpowered and support 10/100 don’t waste your time or money.

Those were the ones I was reccomend. Which do you reccomend?

 

[sebastiantombs]

You don't need a switch with ports faster than 100Mb/PS for use with cameras. Even an 8MP camera running 60F/ps and a 20,000 bit rate won't use more than 20Mb/ps. All gig ports are a marketing gimmick and just not needed for surveillance cameras. I've got 21 cameras running for a combined bit rate of under 150Mb/ps on the gig uplink port.

Nelly's is a reputable dealer so I wouldn't be too worried at all.

 

[6010fd12]

Thank you for the explanation. Is there any difference(besides price and port count) between these two models?

IPCamPower IPCP-16P2G-AF2 16 Port POE Switch W/ 2 Gigabit Uplinks for IP Security Cameras

Used, Good condition, has accessories. The IPCP-16P2G-AF2 is a business class PoE switch that was designed for IP camera systems that utilize 16 IP cameras or less. This switch has 16 10/100 PoE powered ports with 2 additional 10/100/1000 gigabit non-powered uplink ports. Provides Standard PoE...

nellyssurplus.com

IPCamPower IPCP-24P2G-EXAF 24 Port POE Network Switch for IP Security Cameras with 2 Gigabit Uplink Ports

Great Condition!!! Slightly used, has accessories! Box may have damage to it, but the damage does not hinder the performance of the POE Switch. 24 POE PORTS W/ 2 ADDITIONAL NON POWERED GIGABIT RATED PORTS - This unmanaged POE switch is actually a 26 Port switch in total. (24) 10/100 POE Rated...

nellyssurplus.com

 

[sebastiantombs]

They're slightly different. The 16 port is PoE while the 24 port is PoE+. Both have good power budgets for the number of ports although the 2 port is actually a little lower on a per port basis. I wouldn't hesitate with either.

 

[Teken]

I'll have to disagree with my esteemed colleague @sebastiantombs. In 1980, 1990, early 2000 10/100 Mb was more than enough for the bandwidth and current standards of the technology of the day. In 2021 when the market has 1GB switches from every major vendor to 2nd tier in every price range to suite almost any tight budget.

Never mind the used market from the likes of eBay for Enterprise hardware.

It makes very little sense to purchase a switch that will be a bottle neck in the future. Buy once, cry once, and never have to worry about spending more money on something that is critical to the network infrastructure. Even worse none of these switches are managed switches which offer VLAN or any other security features to hardened the network. The most glaring problems with these 3rd tier POE switches are their under powered PSU's.

Anyone who can do basic math will quickly note the numbers that are stated do NOT correlate to real world use.

The first POE switch indicates 16 ports @200 watts. Yet in the same breath it states 30 watts per port??? Impossible, 200 / 16 = 12.5 watts which is a POE AF standard not POE AT. What this switch does like all the of cheap 3rd tier switches is SHARE the power between the PSU.

The other POE switch indicates 24 ports @250 watts. Yet again in the same breath it states 30 watts per port and actually indicates AF / AT. 250 / 24 = 10.41 watts?!?!

If you have a small system this switch may very well offer you a good value in the short term. The day you decide to hook up more demanding hardware that comes even close to 15 watts that thing will light on fire. Which you should ask does this appliance have any UL / cUL safety rating / listing???

Does the unit have any fans inside the case???

No???

All that heat is going to be expelled and cooled down how???

One may use a power brick vs other incorporates a internal PSU. The one that uses a power brick you better place it on / in a fire rated container . . .

 

[sebastiantombs]

And I'll disagree with my esteemed colleague teken on this. Someday, well into the future and long after those switches have reached the end of their life by component failure, individual cameras MAY need more than 100Mb/ps. For the foreseeable future, especially with a home surveillance system, 100Mb/ps is more than enough. I have two of the 16 port IPCamPower switches rack mounted and they are working fine and I expect them to be working just as well after I'm looking at the root side of the grass.

For that matter, who's to say that in the future some new, whizz bang, compression scheme will come along that reduces bandwidth requirements by a factor of ten? Anything is possible. Probability is the important point.

 

[6010fd12]

I'm going to squeeze right into this fight here just for a quick second to to say I think I might have made up my mind about the switch. Found a used Aruba S2500-48P on ebay. I know it will be putting all my eggs in one basket but since its managed and for around $100 I honestly can't beat that price. Is there anything wrong with going with this switch before I purchase it?