Recommend me camera

[Darko9000]

Just set up my new BI computer and installed an IPC-T5442T-ZE camera. For now, I am using it inside my shop covering two doors. Can you recommend me 4K camera for the outside, one to cover 100f driway and the second one to cover the door enterance, preferably decent night performance if possible?

There are so many different options, I feel overwhelmed.

Thanks

 

[wittaj]

It is simple LOL do not chase MP - do not buy a 4MP camera that is anything other than a 1/1.8" sensor. Do not buy a 2MP camera that is anything other than a 1/2.8" sensor. Most 4k are on the same sensor as a 2MP and thus the 2MP will kick its butt all night long as the 4k will need 4 times the light than the 2MP... 4k will do very poor at night unless you have stadium quality lighting (well a lot of lighting LOL).

Next you need to worry about getting the right camera for the right location.

You would be shocked how close someone needs to be to a 2.8 lens in order to ID them. And how much additional light is needed at night (when it matters most).

Take a look at this chart - to identify someone with the 2.8mm lens that is popular, someone would have to be within 13 feet of the camera, but realistically within 10 feet after you dial it in to your settings.

My neighbor was bragging to me how he only needed his 4 2.8mm fixed lens cams to see his entire property and the street and his whole backyard. His car was sitting in the driveway practically touching the garage door and his video quality was useless to ID the perp not even 10 feet away.

When we had a thief come thru here and get into a lot of cars, the police couldn't use one video or photo from anyone's system that had fixed 2.8mm or 3.6mm cams - those cams sure looks nice and gives a great wide angle view, but you cannot identify anyone at 15 feet out. At night you cannot even ID someone from 10 feet. Meanwhile, the perp didn't come to my house but walked past on the sidewalk at 80 feet from my house and my 2MP varifocal zoomed in to a point at the sidewalk was the money shot for the police that got my neighbors all there stolen stuff back. Reolinks are even worse at night - he tried those first and sent back to get Arlos....and a year later he is regretting that choice too.

In fact my system was the only one that gave them useful information. Not even my other neighbors $1,300 4k Lorex system from Costco provided useful info - the cams just didn't cut it at night. His system wasn't even a year old and after that event has started replacing with cameras purchased from @EMPIRETECANDY on this site based on my recommendation and seeing my results - fortunately those cams work with the Lorex NVR. He is still shocked a 2MP camera performs better than his 4k cameras... It is all about the amount of light needed and getting the right camera for the right location.

My first few systems were the box units that were all 2.8mm lens and while the picture looked great in daytime, to identify someone you didn't know is impossible unless they are within 10 feet of the camera, and even then it is tough. You are getting the benefit coming to this site of hearing thoughts from people that have been there/done that.

We all hate to be that guy with a system and something happens and the event demonstrates how poor our system was and then we start the update process. My neighbor with his expensive arlos and monthly fees is that guy right now and is still fuming his system failed him. And my neighbor with his 4K Costco kit is as well LOL.

Here are my general distance recommendations, but switch out the 5442 camera to the equivalent 2MP on the 1/2.8" sensor works as well.

• 5442 fixed lens 2.8mm - anything within 10 feet of camera OR as an overview camera
• 5442 ZE - varifocal - distances up to 40-50 feet (personally I wouldn't go past the 30 foot range but I like things closer)
• 5442 Z4E - anything up to 80-100 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 60 feet but I like things closer)
• 5241-Z12E - anything from 80 feet to almost 200 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 150 feet because I like things closer)
• 5241-Z12E - for a license plate cam that you would angle up the street to get plates up to about 175 feet away, or up to 220 with additional IR.
• 49225 PTZ - great PTZ and in conjunction with an NVR or Blue Iris and the cameras above that you can use as spotter cams to point the PTZ to the correct location to compliment the fixed cams.

You need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who.

Main keys are you can't locate the camera too high (not on the 2nd story or above 7 feet high unless it is for overview and not Identification purposes) or chase MP and you need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who. Also, do not chase marketing phrases like ColorVu and Full Color and the like - all cameras need light - simple physics...

The best advice we give is purchase one varifocal camera and test it at each location you want to install a camera and confirm the lens you need and do not install higher than 7-8 feet unless it is for an overview camera - otherwise you get top of heads and hoodies.

 

[jumpinghippo1]

Do you have any recommendations for an entire camera system with NVR included?

 

[SouthernYankee]

@jumpinghippo1

Most full kit cameras system cut corners to keep the price down, a low processor NVR and cameras that do not have the necessary features.
Start with one high quality varaiable focuse

Read Study Plan before spending money
Cameras are for surveillance to get information for after the fact. Cameras are NOT a deterrent.

Please read the IP Cam Talk Cliff Notes and other items in the IP Cam Talk Wiki. (read on a real computer, not a phone). The wiki is in the blue bar at the top of the page.

Read How to Secure Your Network (Don't Get Hacked!) in the wiki also.

Read,study,plan before spending money ..... plan plan plan
Doing it right the first time will save you money.
Test do not guess

Start with a good variable focus camera, so you test for the correct lens,lighting, camera placement.
use a test mount to verify the camera mount location. My test rig: rev.2
If you want to be able to ID faces, don't mount cams higher than 7ft. You want to know who did it, not just what happened.

 

[ljw2k]

I would be looking at the new Hikvision HIKVISION DS-2CD2087G2 8mp with it's Excellent 8mp 1/1/2" sensor and F1:0 lens.

 

[jumpinghippo1]

@jumpinghippo1

Most full kit cameras system cut corners to keep the price down, a low processor NVR and cameras that do not have the necessary features.
Start with one high quality varaiable focuse

Read Study Plan before spending money
Cameras are for surveillance to get information for after the fact. Cameras are NOT a deterrent.

Please read the IP Cam Talk Cliff Notes and other items in the IP Cam Talk Wiki. (read on a real computer, not a phone). The wiki is in the blue bar at the top of the page.

Read How to Secure Your Network (Don't Get Hacked!) in the wiki also.

Read,study,plan before spending money ..... plan plan plan
Doing it right the first time will save you money.
Test do not guess

Start with a good variable focus camera, so you test for the correct lens,lighting, camera placement.
use a test mount to verify the camera mount location. My test rig: rev.2
If you want to be able to ID faces, don't mount cams higher than 7ft. You want to know who did it, not just what happened.

Thanks! Are there any security threats if I don't connect the NVR to the interent and just view It on my monitor? Maybe when I travel I can connect it and use a remote viewing app.

 

[wittaj]

There is always the threat with an NVR because manufacturers are slow to patch up security issues. The only time my prior NVRs ever got a firmware update was at initial purchase and turning on.

Consider a Blue Iris/computer combo as an NVR. Keep in mind an NVR is a stripped down computer after all....and isn't true plug-n-play like people believe. You still have to dial the cameras into your setting. Once you do that, might as well go with something that has the best chance of working with many different camera brands. And I have found Blue Iris to be more robust and easier than an NVR. As always, YMMV...

When I was looking at replacing an existing NVR, once I realized that not all NVRs are created equal, and once I priced out a good one, it was cheaper to buy a refurbished computer than an NVR. You don't need to buy components and build one.

Many of these refurbished computers are business class computers that have come off lease. The one I bought I kid you not I could not tell that it was a refurbished unit - not a speck of dust or dents or scratches on it. It appeared to me like everything was replaced and I would assume just the motherboard with the intel processor is what was from the original unit. I went with the lowest end processor on the WIKI list as it was the cheapest and it runs my system fine. Could probably get going for $200 or so. A real NVR will cost more than that.

A member here just last month found a refurbished 4th generation for less than $150USD that came with Win10 PRO, 16GB RAM, and a 1TB drive. Blue Iris has a demo, so try it out on an existing computer and see if you like it. You can pull the cameras from the Lorex NVR right into Blue Iris by simply adding in the IP address of the NVR in the camera IP address of Blue Iris and then down about halfway is a camera # and you just select the camera number to bring in.

NVRs from the box units like a Amcrest and Lorex cap out incoming bandwidth (which impacts the resolution and FPS of the cameras). The Lorex and Amcrest NVR maxes out at 80Mbps and truly only one or a couple cameras that will display 4K. My neighbors was limited to that and he is all upset it isn't 4K for all eight channels and he was capped out at 4096 bitrate on each camera so it was a pixelated mess.

There is a big Blue Iris or NVR debate here LOL. Some people love Blue Iris and think NVRs are clunky and hard to use and others think Blue Iris is clunky and hard to use. I have done both and prefer Blue Iris. As with everything YMMV...

And you can disable Windows updates and set up the computer to automatically restart in a power failure. These tend to be more secure as antivirus software is updated way more frequently than NVR firmware.

One of the best ways to secure your system is to use OpenVPN or another service that VPNs back into YOUR network and IP address. Most of the paid VPNs are to mask your IP address for illegal streaming and porn LOL and is not the kind you want. OpenVPN is free and comes standard on most Asus routers. Others have used an Edge Router X or Raspberry Pi.

 

[jumpinghippo1]

There is always the threat with an NVR because manufacturers are slow to patch up security issues. The only time my prior NVRs ever got a firmware update was at initial purchase and turning on.

Consider a Blue Iris/computer combo as an NVR. Keep in mind an NVR is a stripped down computer after all....and isn't true plug-n-play like people believe. You still have to dial the cameras into your setting. Once you do that, might as well go with something that has the best chance of working with many different camera brands. And I have found Blue Iris to be more robust and easier than an NVR. As always, YMMV...

When I was looking at replacing an existing NVR, once I realized that not all NVRs are created equal, and once I priced out a good one, it was cheaper to buy a refurbished computer than an NVR. You don't need to buy components and build one.

Many of these refurbished computers are business class computers that have come off lease. The one I bought I kid you not I could not tell that it was a refurbished unit - not a speck of dust or dents or scratches on it. It appeared to me like everything was replaced and I would assume just the motherboard with the intel processor is what was from the original unit. I went with the lowest end processor on the WIKI list as it was the cheapest and it runs my system fine. Could probably get going for $200 or so. A real NVR will cost more than that.

A member here just last month found a refurbished 4th generation for less than $150USD that came with Win10 PRO, 16GB RAM, and a 1TB drive. Blue Iris has a demo, so try it out on an existing computer and see if you like it. You can pull the cameras from the Lorex NVR right into Blue Iris by simply adding in the IP address of the NVR in the camera IP address of Blue Iris and then down about halfway is a camera # and you just select the camera number to bring in.

NVRs from the box units like a Amcrest and Lorex cap out incoming bandwidth (which impacts the resolution and FPS of the cameras). The Lorex and Amcrest NVR maxes out at 80Mbps and truly only one or a couple cameras that will display 4K. My neighbors was limited to that and he is all upset it isn't 4K for all eight channels and he was capped out at 4096 bitrate on each camera so it was a pixelated mess.

There is a big Blue Iris or NVR debate here LOL. Some people love Blue Iris and think NVRs are clunky and hard to use and others think Blue Iris is clunky and hard to use. I have done both and prefer Blue Iris. As with everything YMMV...

And you can disable Windows updates and set up the computer to automatically restart in a power failure. These tend to be more secure as antivirus software is updated way more frequently than NVR firmware.

One of the best ways to secure your system is to use OpenVPN or another service that VPNs back into YOUR network and IP address. Most of the paid VPNs are to mask your IP address for illegal streaming and porn LOL and is not the kind you want. OpenVPN is free and comes standard on most Asus routers. Others have used an Edge Router X or Raspberry Pi.

Seems like Blue Iris is the way to go; however, I was planning on buying my system and having a professional security company install all the cabling and such so Im not sure if they setup Blue Iris or not as im not that tech savvy.

 

[SouthernYankee]

@jumpinghippo1
I do not have an NVR. I use BI.
I would recommend using a VPN to access your home network and device on the home network. (openVPN)
I do not know how to block the NVR from calling home. If you block the NVR at the router then you may not be able to access it via a VPN.
The cameras should be connected directly to the back of the NVR on there POE.

I recommend starting a new thread for your questions.

Not sure about Cali but the cost be drop is between $75 and $250 per drop. depending on the complexity.
Most people use multiple types of cameras to get good coverage. If you can not identify the bad guy with the video for the cops and in court, you have wasted your money.

============================================
1) the front door needs three cameras, one doorbell camera, one pointing at the package drop area, one pointing back to the front door.
2) the garage entrance Needs two cameras pointing out mounted no higher than the top of the garage door.
3) the inside of the garage need two cameras one point at the garage door and one point at the house entrance
4) each entrance to the house must be covered by a camera.
5) each camera must be covered by another camera, If i can destroy a camera it must be covered, recorded by another camera.
6) in my house all public areas inside are covered, kitchen, living room, dining room, halls, game room, den
7) all outside doors are covered by a camera inside, pointing out.
============================================

Read,study,plan before spending money ..... plan plan plan
Doing it right the first time will save you money.
Test do not guess

 

[wittaj]

Watch out for the professional security companies - many are reputable, but we see a lot of "professionals" that install inferior equipment and charge a premium for it. Or they just install it but don't dial it in for your settings and then you get crap video. We have seen people come here and pay a premium for a cheap box kit from Home Depot.

You would be better to have them run the cabling but you provide the cameras to get what you want.

 

[flynreelow]

Watch out for the professional security companies - many are reputable, but we see a lot of "professionals" that install inferior equipment and charge a premium for it. Or they just install it but don't dial it in for your settings and then you get crap video. We have seen people come here and pay a premium for a cheap box kit from Home Depot.

You would be better to have them run the cabling but you provide the cameras to get what you want.

just got these installed by a pro.... turned out great.... lost of $$ but gotta pay to play....

 

[wittaj]

What camera is that?

Can you provide a little video sample of the turned out great camera at night?

 

[flynreelow]

What camera is that?

Can you provide a little video sample of the turned out great camera at night?

sorry u didnt catch the sarcasm

 

[wittaj]

Oh I did, just wanted to confirm that LOL as some newbie would see that and assume that is a quality install...

 

[Darko9000]

It is simple LOL do not chase MP - do not buy a 4MP camera that is anything other than a 1/1.8" sensor. Do not buy a 2MP camera that is anything other than a 1/2.8" sensor. Most 4k are on the same sensor as a 2MP and thus the 2MP will kick its butt all night long as the 4k will need 4 times the light than the 2MP... 4k will do very poor at night unless you have stadium quality lighting (well a lot of lighting LOL).

Next you need to worry about getting the right camera for the right location.

You would be shocked how close someone needs to be to a 2.8 lens in order to ID them. And how much additional light is needed at night (when it matters most).

Take a look at this chart - to identify someone with the 2.8mm lens that is popular, someone would have to be within 13 feet of the camera, but realistically within 10 feet after you dial it in to your settings.

My neighbor was bragging to me how he only needed his 4 2.8mm fixed lens cams to see his entire property and the street and his whole backyard. His car was sitting in the driveway practically touching the garage door and his video quality was useless to ID the perp not even 10 feet away.

When we had a thief come thru here and get into a lot of cars, the police couldn't use one video or photo from anyone's system that had fixed 2.8mm or 3.6mm cams - those cams sure looks nice and gives a great wide angle view, but you cannot identify anyone at 15 feet out. At night you cannot even ID someone from 10 feet. Meanwhile, the perp didn't come to my house but walked past on the sidewalk at 80 feet from my house and my 2MP varifocal zoomed in to a point at the sidewalk was the money shot for the police that got my neighbors all there stolen stuff back. Reolinks are even worse at night - he tried those first and sent back to get Arlos....and a year later he is regretting that choice too.

In fact my system was the only one that gave them useful information. Not even my other neighbors $1,300 4k Lorex system from Costco provided useful info - the cams just didn't cut it at night. His system wasn't even a year old and after that event has started replacing with cameras purchased from @EMPIRETECANDY on this site based on my recommendation and seeing my results - fortunately those cams work with the Lorex NVR. He is still shocked a 2MP camera performs better than his 4k cameras... It is all about the amount of light needed and getting the right camera for the right location.

My first few systems were the box units that were all 2.8mm lens and while the picture looked great in daytime, to identify someone you didn't know is impossible unless they are within 10 feet of the camera, and even then it is tough. You are getting the benefit coming to this site of hearing thoughts from people that have been there/done that.

We all hate to be that guy with a system and something happens and the event demonstrates how poor our system was and then we start the update process. My neighbor with his expensive arlos and monthly fees is that guy right now and is still fuming his system failed him. And my neighbor with his 4K Costco kit is as well LOL.

Here are my general distance recommendations, but switch out the 5442 camera to the equivalent 2MP on the 1/2.8" sensor works as well.

• 5442 fixed lens 2.8mm - anything within 10 feet of camera OR as an overview camera
• 5442 ZE - varifocal - distances up to 40-50 feet (personally I wouldn't go past the 30 foot range but I like things closer)
• 5442 Z4E - anything up to 80-100 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 60 feet but I like things closer)
• 5241-Z12E - anything from 80 feet to almost 200 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 150 feet because I like things closer)
• 5241-Z12E - for a license plate cam that you would angle up the street to get plates up to about 175 feet away, or up to 220 with additional IR.
• 49225 PTZ - great PTZ and in conjunction with an NVR or Blue Iris and the cameras above that you can use as spotter cams to point the PTZ to the correct location to compliment the fixed cams.

You need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who.

Main keys are you can't locate the camera too high (not on the 2nd story or above 7 feet high unless it is for overview and not Identification purposes) or chase MP and you need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who. Also, do not chase marketing phrases like ColorVu and Full Color and the like - all cameras need light - simple physics...

The best advice we give is purchase one varifocal camera and test it at each location you want to install a camera and confirm the lens you need and do not install higher than 7-8 feet unless it is for an overview camera - otherwise you get top of heads and hoodies.

Thanks Wittaj,

I will check out your recommendations.

Darko