Reolink: Deconstruction of a dangerous misleading youtube review "Finding the BEST 4K Security Camera NVR Package (Reolink vs Amcrest vs Swann)"

[user8963]

Had another visit from my friend this evening. Unfortunately he didn't try my car so he didn't come too close to the camera, but the picture is a vast improvement on the Reolink camera. Bear in mind that it is far darker in real life than it appears in the clip and this is with no IR or LED on the camera.




View attachment 108978View attachment 108979View attachment 108980View attachment 108981

Like wittaj already said, this is only a slight improvement.
Your eyes trick you.
It is almost the same quality as reolink. There are some improvements... you have better shutter time/less gain due to better sensor... also its now color, which makes it much easier to recognize a person. In my opinion even the best b/w image will not dominate a bad color picture. so you have color, less ghosting, less blurr, less noise, but still unable to get a shot from a person to identify him.

i dont understand why some people are these fast buyer. "OK THIS ONE NOT WORKED OUT ... I BUY ANOTHER ONE ... already clicked"
Wittaj said it hundreds and thousands times...

more focal length ... you need more !!!




according to your posts your region of interest is in the green circle... so the main question is, why do you even cover all the red parts?
if this is a 4mm camera, you should buy 6 or even more... better a varifocal camera, then you have more options... also you have focus control which give you superior sharpness over fixed lens

 

[user8963]

Here is an example from a 5442-ze
walkway is only around 3 meters, most would choose 2.8mm or 4mm, but it will not give you the same results

zoomed all way out (the red bar is added by me for privacy):


zoomed in to around 8-10mm




sure there would be a better mounting point (then there would be more frontal faces and not so much covering of the bush, but its only mounted at 2meters (objective is around 1.90m) and it looked awful at the red circle (on the wall) ... so its a compromise to get a clear face shot... many people have these mini domes mounted direct to the wall, not my favour, but give you best face shot

here a face (already croped, original full person)




maybe spiders could be a problem, but we will see. there will be floodlight on that area so no need for b/w mode

 

[spacem]

There maybe some 'wasted' areas with 4mm, but with a 6mm I would lose coverage of nearby areas I want to see. The only way to then capture those areas would be to move the further camera away, which defeats the object.
Look at your picture - the green area I want to cover almost goes to the outside of every edge. The 'wasted' red areas are the corners. Unless I go for some kind of circular picture, I will always have some wastage in the corners.
Also I fully understand there are better cameras with varifocal lens etc, but I also have a budget. I'm happy with my choice, it meets my requirements and I feel it gives me the best balance of value and performance available.

 

[user8963]

but with a 6mm I would lose coverage of nearby areas I want to see.

the problem what you miss is that your camera is mounted too high to get a face at your nearby areas.
so you loosing face shots farer away and you also lose the face nearby because the angle might only give you forehead/hair

thats why many suggest not to use only one camera if you want identify + observe
but if you are happy anyone has different aims

in 2 years sebastiantombs rabbits will multiple to 300 , so he needs another subnet for his cameras

 

[wittaj]

@user8963 - I mentioned this in another thread about the great capture you got.

I think that post above should be it's own thread that you should create demonstrating the value of varifocal, more zoom, and its benefit over a fixed 2.8 or 4mm camera.

Because you are right, most would go with the wide angle in your situation, but your clean capture speaks for itself as to the benefit of optically zooming in to a pinch point!

 

[sebastiantombs]

It all comes down to one camera for each purpose. In this case I'd say a short focal length overview and a longer focal length for the pinch point to provide solid identification.

 

[Mark_M]

This guy (previously known as Newfiebort) has gone from Hikvision and Blue Iris and started reviewing home consumer crap.
Oooh that sponsor money must be juicy.



I'll grant in the first night time shots, his facial features are recognisable. But only when he stops moving! Must be a slow shutter speed for that much motion blur.

 

[user8963]

Yes he had domes .. there was another video from him where he showed how dirty they were

 

[Griswalduk]

I thought i would post this here for analysis but in summary......I'll stick with my 5442's lol

Installation + Footage - Reolink’s AMAZING 12MP Security Camera Review

Today we are checking out the 12mp turret style security camera from Reolink. It’s model number RLC-1220A. That’s a lot of megapixels for less than $100US. Let’s check it out! We’ll do a quick rundown of what’s in the box and the specifications of this high megapixel device. We’ll also look

www.hometechdiy.com

Edit oops I'm just reading the thread @Mark_M beat me to it

 

[Mark_M]

I thought i would post this here for analysis but in summary......I'll stick with my 5442's lol

Installation + Footage - Reolink’s AMAZING 12MP Security Camera Review

Today we are checking out the 12mp turret style security camera from Reolink. It’s model number RLC-1220A. That’s a lot of megapixels for less than $100US. Let’s check it out! We’ll do a quick rundown of what’s in the box and the specifications of this high megapixel device. We’ll also look

www.hometechdiy.com

Edit oops I'm just reading the thread @Mark_M beat me to it

Sad that this guy has gone from Hikvision and Blue Iris,
and now down the dark tunnel into home brands. Started with an Anni system, now ReoCrap and he's getting Juicy sponsorship money.

Example of money driving you away.

 

[Griswalduk]

While researching hikvision I stumbled on that site before i found this one. At the time I found his videos informative especially one about the importance of lens sizes along with other stuff. i think he was just starting to feature Reolink equipment at this time. He's not a bad presenter and at that stage I accepted what he said but not rushing into anything continued researching and found this site.

Reading numerous posts here i quickly dismissed Reolink and glad I did. The problems highlighted with them are obvious once you know to look for them i.e. terrible performance at night. I know my 5442's blow that amazing 12mp baby out of the water lol.

It's a learning curve as always. People starting out are likely too see a review and think great that's the one for me.

A good guy gone to the dark side maybe lol

 

[wittaj]

Somewhere the hookup is thinking "thank goodness IPCAM has someone else to pick on"

 

[snakpak]

I found this thread after spending so many hours watching all the The Hook Up videos and lots of others similar ones on Youtube. I had just ordered 4 Reolink cameras, RLC-820A and RLC-822A and wanted to confirm they work well with Blue Iris and DeepStack. Nope. The cameras have not even arrived yet but I will be returning them. I appreciate everyone's comments and glad I found this forum. Feels like I wasted so much time getting to square 1 again. It took a long time to read 13 pages of this thread too.

I just don't have days, weeks or months to read every possible camera review and become an expert about what to replace them with. I'm looking for recommendations to replace these Reolink cameras with something better. My requirements are:

• Turret style
• Good night vision motion clarity using only IR. My cabin is remote, deep in the forest, no streetlights
• 4MP minimum, 8MP would be better
• Blue Iris compatibility with sub streams is critical
• Hikvision or Dahua brands? They sound like good price/performance
• Ideally under $200 USD each
• I do not know if 2.8 or 4.0mm lens is better. I will have 6 cameras installed on the cabin plus a bunch more in the forest of my rural property. I expect to have 12-16 cameras in total across 5 acres.

I am most concerned with spotting bears, mountain lions (cougars) and people using DeepStack. A grizzly bear with cubs was seen on my property this summer. They are extremely dangerous when food is nearby! Or when a person is between the grizzly and its cubs. I need early warning to keep my family safe.

Thank you. If I need to start a new thread I can, but I think others searching for Reolink / Blue Iris compatibility will ultimately find this thread like I did.

 

[wittaj]

@snakpak - fortunately you found this while you could still return them!

You need to identify the areas you want to cover and pick a camera designed to cover that distance. In some instances, it may be a 2MP or 4MP that is the right camera.

It is simple LOL do not chase MP - do not buy a 4MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/1.8" sensor. Do not buy a 2MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/2.8" sensor. Do not buy a 4K (8MP) camera on anything smaller than a 1/1.2" sensor. Unfortunately, most 4k (8MP) cams are on the same sensor as a 2MP and thus the 2MP will kick its butt all night long as the 4k will need 4 times the light than the 2MP... 4k will do very poor at night unless you have stadium quality lighting (well a lot of lighting LOL). Starlight, ColorVu, Full Color, etc. are simply marketing terms, so don't be sold on those names.

While we are at it, let's make sure you get the right camera...

To identify someone with the wide-angle 2.8mm lens that most people opt for, someone would have to be within 13 feet of the camera, but realistically within 10 feet after you dial it in to your settings.



My neighbor was bragging to me how he only needed his four 2.8mm fixed lens 4k cams to see his entire property and the street and his whole backyard. His car was sitting in the driveway practically touching the garage door and his video quality was useless to ID the perp not even 10 feet away. Meanwhile my 2MP varifocal optically zoomed in to the public sidewalk provided the money shot to the police to get my neighbors all their stuff back. Nobody else had video that could provide anything useful, other than what time this motion blur ghost was at their car.

Here are my general distance recommendations, but switch out the Dahua 5442 series camera to the equivalent 2MP on the 1/2.8" sensor or equivalent Hikvision works as well. These cameras meet all your requirements.

• 5442 fixed lens 2.8mm - anything within 10 feet of camera OR as an overview camera
• 5442 ZE - varifocal - distances up to 40-50 feet (personally I wouldn't go past the 30 foot range but I like things closer)
• 5442 Z4E - anything up to 80-100 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 60 feet but I like things closer)
• 5241-Z12E - anything from 80 feet to almost 200 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 150 feet because I like things closer)
• 5241-Z12E - for a license plate cam that you would angle up the street to get plates up to about 175 feet away, or up to 220 with additional IR.
• 49225 PTZ - great auto-track PTZ and in conjunction with an NVR or Blue Iris and the cameras above that you can use as spotter cams to point the PTZ to the correct location to compliment the fixed cams.

You need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A wide angle 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who.

One camera cannot be the be all, see all. Each one is selected for covering a specific area. Most of us here have different brands and types, from fixed cams, to varifocals, to PTZs, each one selected for it's primary purpose and to utilize the strength of that particular camera.

So you will need to identify the distance the camera would be from the activities you want to IDENTIFY on and purchase the correct camera for that distance as an optical zoom.

If you want to see things far away, you need optical zoom, digital zoom only works in the movies and TV...And the optical zoom is done real time - for a varifocal it is a set it and forget it. You cannot go to recorded video and optically zoom in later, at that point it is digital zoom, and the sensors on these cameras are so small which is why digital zoom doesn't work very well after the fact.

Main keys are you can't locate the camera too high (not on the 2nd story or above 7 feet high unless it is for overview and not Identification purposes) or chase MP and you need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who. Also, do not chase marketing phrases like ColorVu and Starlight and Full Color and the like - all cameras need light - simple physics...


A trusted vendor here is Andy @EMPIRETECANDY that sells Dahua OEM cameras.

Amazon.com

 

[sebastiantombs]

Just remember those distances in the "DORI" chart are to identify a human, IE a good facial shot. For detecting bears, cougars (feline cougars not human cougars) and other wild life the distances will be much further. If you want to see the texture of their coat, it's a good guide though.

 

[user8963]

Just remember those distances in the "DORI" chart are to identify a human

Not sure who invented DORI, but i dont like the numbers.
For example, i would choose 12mm for 10m (33feet) like @wittaj already mention

i am waiting for 6mm color4k, but andy cannot deliver because no stock

 

[sebastiantombs]

Yeah, I agree with that, but you can get a reasonable idea from that chart. As with everything, each installation, each camera individually, is different.

 

[snakpak]

Thank you for all the information. It makes sense that a larger CMOS sensor and fewer MP will provide much better night time clarity when there is motion. It sounds like the Dahua 5442 series may be one of the most recommended cameras with their 1/1.8" sensors (38mm^2) and 4MP. I noticed that Dahua also sells similar-looking cameras with much smaller sensors and 4MP, and they are a bit cheaper, but those would not be as good at night.

I found the IPC-HDW5442TM-ASE model has IR lights vs the IPC-HDW5442TM-AS-LED which has only visible LEDS. Would be nice to find a model with both, but without such an option I believe I would need the IR model for my application, as the cabin is surrounded by complete darkness in the forest. Without IR I doubt the LED version can see anything in complete darkness and I would not wants the LED lights on all night. I would assume the LED version is more for situations with low-level lights from street lights, porches and so on where its spotlight adds to the ambient light.

Is there a comparable Hikvision camera with similar specs and pricing? They make black ones which interest me purely for aesthetic reasons.

Thanks for saving some significant time by pointing me, and others, in the right direction.

BTW, in comparison, those Reolink RLC-820A cameras that I'll be returning have a much smaller 1/2.49" sensor (about 25mm^2) and 8MP so no wonder they suck at night... plus add all those compatibility issues they have with Blue Iris, sub streams and motion detection, and now I see why those Reolink-touting videos are pretty misleading.

 

[wittaj]

Ask @EMPIRETECANDY if he still has any of the 5442-ZE cameras in black.

And yes, if you get the camera that cannot see IR, then the LED white light needs to stay on all night unless there is enough ambient light. They are not motion activated, nor are they much brighter than a cellphone flashlight or two, so IR would be the better bet in your case.

 

[EMPIRETECANDY]

Amazon.com

Has black IPC-T5442T-ZE, a very cool Titanium black