Reolink: Deconstruction of a dangerous misleading youtube review "Finding the BEST 4K Security Camera NVR Package (Reolink vs Amcrest vs Swann)"

[mat200]

I have installed Reolink -810B8-A and feel like i need to make a comment here on the system. For the price of the system, the picture is extremely good even at night. Yes you will not be able the license plate at 75 feet or even 50 feet but i am fine with that. For 8 cameras plus NVR i paid under $800. I considered going with Bluei IRS but i don't have enough time right now to set it up so went with easier choice which is just getting NVR. For the purpose of house security and being able to identify faces and even vehicles both during the day and night, is good enough for me. I do not have Youtube channel nor do I work for Reolink. I am just posting my honest opinion. If in the next 3-5 years NVR dies which is always possible, i will probably go with Blueiris.

Hi @iivisionii

Please post a low light video and image capture of a moving suspect.

There are better performing cameras for not much more, and if the cameras do not produce the results you need - it really does not matter how "cheap" they were as it was a failure to perform what was needed.

Example:
I can sell you a lot of cheap Chinese ev vehicles, but if need a truck to do real work.. all that money was spent on a solution which failed you.

Thank you

 

[wittaj]

I have installed Reolink -810B8-A and feel like i need to make a comment here on the system. For the price of the system, the picture is extremely good even at night. Yes you will not be able the license plate at 75 feet or even 50 feet but i am fine with that. For 8 cameras plus NVR i paid under $800. I considered going with Bluei IRS but i don't have enough time right now to set it up so went with easier choice which is just getting NVR. For the purpose of house security and being able to identify faces and even vehicles both during the day and night, is good enough for me. I do not have Youtube channel nor do I work for Reolink. I am just posting my honest opinion. If in the next 3-5 years NVR dies which is always possible, i will probably go with Blueiris.

Please post us a video of extremely good that shows motion at night.

So you do not get any blurring and ghosting?

You can actually freeze frame and get a nice clean capture of a person?

Everyone's idea of extremely good is relative, so please show us...

Look at all the examples in this thread where people posted what they thought was really good....maybe you will be the first with extremely good that puts all the other reo examples to shame...

This is an example from their marketing videos - do you see a person in this picture...yes, there is a person in this picture. This is why you cannot buy any system that you cannot change the shutter speed or control any other parameter. Could this provide anything useful for the police? The still picture looks great though except for the person and the blur of the vehicle... Will give you a hint - the person is in between the two columns:

Bad Boys
Bad Boys
Watcha gonna do
Watcha gonna do
When the camera can't see you

 

[austwhite]

I have installed Reolink -810B8-A and feel like i need to make a comment here on the system. For the price of the system, the picture is extremely good even at night. Yes you will not be able the license plate at 75 feet or even 50 feet but i am fine with that. For 8 cameras plus NVR i paid under $800. I considered going with Bluei IRS but i don't have enough time right now to set it up so went with easier choice which is just getting NVR. For the purpose of house security and being able to identify faces and even vehicles both during the day and night, is good enough for me. I do not have Youtube channel nor do I work for Reolink. I am just posting my honest opinion. If in the next 3-5 years NVR dies which is always possible, i will probably go with Blueiris.

That's interesting considering even the guy who did the 'dangerous' review has noted about the ghosting from Reolink cameras.
Could you positively identify a person from say 20feet at night when they are walking around, not just standing still? I know I could not positively identify anyone at night time using IR (black and white) night vision on any Reolink camera I have used, either with RMTP or RSTP feeds.
Would be nice to see some images to back it up, there are already plenty on this forum in other threads showing how poor the night vision is.
I stopped using Reolink as a cheap camera is a waste of money if you can't identify a human from a reasonable distance.

 

[iivisionii]

Please post us a video of extremely good motion at night.

So you do not get any blurring and ghosting?

You can actually freeze frame and get a nice clean capture of a person?

Everyone's idea of extremely good is relative, so please show us...

Ghosting absolutely happen on zoom. Further you zoom, more ghosting will happen. No question about that.

That's interesting considering even the guy who did the 'dangerous' review has noted about the ghosting from Reolink cameras.
Could you positively identify a person from say 20feet at night when they are walking around, not just standing still? I know I could not positively identify anyone at night time using IR (black and white) night vision on any Reolink camera I have used, either with RMTP or RSTP feeds.
Would be nice to see some images to back it up, there are already plenty on this forum in other threads showing how poor the night vision is.
I stopped using Reolink as a cheap camera is a waste of money if you can't identify a human from a reasonable distance.

In my case i have motion light detector, so yes at 20 feet you will be able to identify someone positive. I have not tried turning it off and trying but that is a good test to do. Yes ghosting does happen but i notice it only in zoom . It all depends on someone set up, in my case i got motion light detectors all over the property so i guess that helps me.

 

[austwhite]

Ghosting absolutely happen on zoom. Further you zoom, more ghosting will happen. No question about that.

In my case i have motion light detector, so yes at 20 feet you will be able to identify someone positive. I have not tried turning it off and trying but that is a good test to do. Yes ghosting does happen but i notice it only in zoom . It all depends on someone set up, in my case i got motion light detectors all over the property so i guess that helps me.

If the Reolink cameras get plenty of external light they work okay. I wouldn't say more than okay. It's low light where they really fail badly and unfortunately that is generally when you need them.
Most criminal activity is opportunistic and they tend to run if a light comes on. At least that is the experience around here.

 

[wittaj]

We are not talking about zoom, we are talking about right up next to the camera.

But please show us how great the camera is so that this thread can show a night video with motion that the camera works well...

Clearly you haven't looked at the videos people have posted in this thread.

Look at post #51 and he is someone that is clearly within 10 if not 5 feet from the camera and that is totally useless to police except to know what time it happened the parked car sure looks nice and clear though:



Or post #52 where he had a lot of light and was close enough to the camera that it should be able to make someone out:

 

[mat200]

Ghosting absolutely happen on zoom. Further you zoom, more ghosting will happen. No question about that.

In my case i have motion light detector, so yes at 20 feet you will be able to identify someone positive. ..

Thanks @iivisionii

I am very much looking forward to seeing a good example of being able to identify someone positive at 20 feet who is moving with your Reolink setup in low light conditions.

 

[fenderman]

I have installed Reolink -810B8-A and feel like i need to make a comment here on the system. For the price of the system, the picture is extremely good even at night. Yes you will not be able the license plate at 75 feet or even 50 feet but i am fine with that. For 8 cameras plus NVR i paid under $800. I considered going with Bluei IRS but i don't have enough time right now to set it up so went with easier choice which is just getting NVR. For the purpose of house security and being able to identify faces and even vehicles both during the day and night, is good enough for me. I do not have Youtube channel nor do I work for Reolink. I am just posting my honest opinion. If in the next 3-5 years NVR dies which is always possible, i will probably go with Blueiris.

The problem is this guy is promoting use of these cameras with blue iris when he knows or should know that they are not compatible. As as others have pointed out he compares cameras with different lens sizes and Fields of view without explaining the ramifications. Reolink is a lying company that spams forums with fake reviews. I know this for a fact because a reolink employee using a reolink email address signed up for this forum and posted a fake review. They use low end sensors that result in poor image quality relative to today's standards. You are way better off with no name crap off AliExpress.

 

[iivisionii]

The problem is this guy is promoting use of these cameras with blue iris when he knows or should know that they are not compatible. As as others have pointed out he compares cameras with different lens sizes and Fields of view without explaining the ramifications. Reolink is a lying company that spams forums with fake reviews. I know this for a fact because a reolink employee using a reolink email address signed up for this forum and posted a fake review. They use low end sensors that result in poor image quality relative to today's standards. You are way better off with no name crap off AliExpress.

Where are you getting info from that it do not work with Blue iris? I never tried it myself but i just looked at reddit blue iris forum and people saying they been using it for years with the software. I also google Reolink and Blue iris and Reolink got instructions specifically on how to set it up with the software.

 

[fenderman]

Where are you getting info from that it do not work with Blue iris? I never tried it myself but i just looked at reddit blue iris forum and people saying they been using it for years with the software. I also google Reolink and Blue iris and Reolink got instructions specifically on how to set it up with the software.

Oy, perhaps you should READ the many posts and threads that discuss this. Particularly read about the fact that Reolink cameras DO NOT support i-frame interval settings (key frames) which are necessary to proper BI operation as explained in several places in the manual. Reolink is lying and attempting to use a workaround (rtmp) that does not resolve the underlying issue. They lied about the reason for not allowing iframe adjustments as well. They simply cannot stop lying. Some people are just too inept to understand what the issue is. This results in many missed video clips - when you need them most.

 

[wittaj]

Blue Iris and Reolinks do not work well together, but the same principles applies for almost any low end consumer grade camera. It is just Reolinks is one of the more consumer end cameras people buy and come to this site as to why it is pointed out often about. I have a cheapo camera for overview purposes so it doesn't matter, but it exhibits this same behavior even though in the settings I can set an iframe...

This was a screenshot of a member here where they had set these cameras to 15FPS within the cameras (I suspect you will be missing motion that you do not know you are missing....):

Now look at they key - that is the iframes. Blue Iris works best when the FPS and the iframes match. Now this is a ratio, so it should be a 1 if it matches the FPS. The iframes not matching (that you cannot fix or change with a reolink) is why they miss motion in Blue Iris and why people have problems. This is mainly why people are having issues with these cameras and there are many threads showing the issues people have with this manufacturer and Blue Iris. It is these same games that make the camera look great as a still image or video but turn to crap once motion is introduced.

The Blue Iris developer has indicated that for best reliability, sub stream frame rate should be equal to the main stream frame rate and these cameras cannot do that and there is nothing you can do about that with these cameras... The iframe rates (something these cameras do not allow you to set) should equal the FPS, but at worse case be no more than double. This example shows the cameras going down to a keyrate of 0.25 means that the iframe rates are over 4 times the FPS and that is why motion detection is a disaster with these cameras and Blue Iris...A value of 0.5 or less is considered insufficient to trust for motion triggers reliably...try to do DeepStack and it will be useless...

Compounding the matter even worse...motion detection is based on the substream and look at the substream FPS - they dropped down to below 6 FPS with an iframe/key rate of 0.25 - you will miss motion most of the time with that issue...

Blue Iris is great and works with probably more camera brands than most VMS programs, but there are brands that don't work well or not at all - Rings, Arlos, Nest, Some Zmodo cams use proprietary systems and cannot be used with Blue Iris, and for a lot of people Reolink doesn't work well either.

Now compare above to mine and cameras that follow industry standards that allow you to actually set parameters and they don't manipulate them. You will see that my FPS match what I set in the camera, and the 1.00 key means the iframe matches:

 

[iivisionii]

I did 2 photos using snipping tool in windows as on my computer photo capture not working, i might have something blocking the program from being able create a photo, not sure. Anyway here is 2 photos, no adjustment made in photoshop or anything else. One is around 35 feet away and the other is few feet away.

 

[mat200]

I did 2 photos using snipping tool in windows as on my computer photo capture not working, i might have something blocking the program from being able create a photo, not sure. Anyway here is 2 photos, no adjustment made in photoshop or anything else. One is around 35 feet away and the other is few feet away.

Thank you @iivisionii

Reolink -810B8-A camera correct?

This appears to be the closer image, some movement.



This one looks like the subject is standing still

 

[iivisionii]

Thank you @iivisionii

Reolink -810B8-A camera correct?

This appears to be the closer image, some movement.




This one looks like the subject is standing still
View attachment 90650

The second one i stopped for a second and paused the video. I did pausing to capture it on both but i was barely walking on the one that i am looking like i am standing. The way i have it set up, except for second photo, person would be captured minimum on 2 cameras anytime and at possible even 3 depending from where they would come. Also keep in mind on the second photo, i would be getting closer to the camera if i keep walking straight.

 

[The Automation Guy]

For the price of the system, the picture is extremely good even at night.....

No offense, but I suspect everyone that says Reolink (and other cameras in their price/quality range) is "OK" has never experienced better quality cameras. I speak from experience. I have both a Reolink camera and a SV3C camera that I bought before finding this site. While they never have produced a great image, I certainly could be fooled into thinking it is "good enough". The problem with Reolink and every manufacture like them, is that they sell $800 "complete" systems that people buy thinking that having 8 identical cameras is better than a few good quality cameras matched to the desired use and location they are going to be in. This is simply untrue. A person is going to be much better off by spending $800 on a NVR (or a computer and BI license) and 2-3 good quality cameras that are matched to their goal and installation location. It will certainly include a mix of cameras other than 2.8mm focal lengths.

It reminds me of one of my neighbors who has two cameras installed on each of the four corners of his house - a two story house with the cameras installed on the soffits (basically 20' in the air). I have no doubt it is a kit that he bought that has eight 2.8mm 4k cameras. There is not a chance in hell that those cameras will be able to provide any usable footage - day or night - because they are not the right cameras for the job. But he probably spent $800 and now feels like he is "protected" because he can "see" all around his home.

For the purpose of house security and being able to identify faces and even vehicles both during the day and night, is good enough for me.

I agree that one of the main reasons to install a camera system is to provide good quality, usable footage, both day and night, to the police after an incident. The standard that you need to hold yourself to is this: "Is the footage clear enough for a jury to identify and convict a complete stranger of a crime based on your footage?" If your cameras cannot do that, or can only do that under ideal situations (for example if the perp stands 5' from the camera and stands still while looking directly at the camera because the camera is mounted 15' in the air and normally only captures the tops of people's heads), then you have wasted your money and worse yet, given you a false sense of security.

If I had some sort of incident at night that my Reolink or SV3C cameras caught and I needed to provide the footage from those cameras to the police as part of their investigation - the footage would be worthless. Sure the footage would clearly show that someone was walking around, but actually being able to provide clear enough footage to allow a jury to identify and convict a subject is not the same as seeing someone walk around. If you are honest with yourself and review your nighttime Reolink footage with that goal in mind, I think you will come to the same conclusion.

 

[iivisionii]

No offense, but I suspect everyone that says Reolink (and other cameras in their price/quality range) is "OK" has never experienced better quality cameras. I speak from experience. I have both a Reolink camera and a SV3C camera that I bought before finding this site. While they never have produced a great image, I certainly could be fooled into thinking it is "good enough". The problem with Reolink and every manufacture like them, is that they sell $800 "complete" systems that people buy thinking that having 8 identical cameras is better than a few good quality cameras matched to the desired use and location they are going to be in. This is simply untrue. A person is going to be much better off by spending $800 on a NVR (or a computer and BI license) and 2-3 good quality cameras that are matched to their goal and installation location. It will certainly include a mix of cameras other than 2.8mm focal lengths.

It reminds me of one of my neighbors who has two cameras installed on each of the four corners of his house - a two story house with the cameras installed on the soffits (basically 20' in the air). I have no doubt it is a kit that he bought that has eight 2.8mm 4k cameras. There is not a chance in hell that those cameras will be able to provide any usable footage - day or night - because they are not the right cameras for the job. But he probably spent $800 and now feels like he is "protected" because he can "see" all around his home.



I agree that one of the main reasons to install a camera system is to provide good quality, usable footage, both day and night, to the police after an incident. The standard that you need to hold yourself to is this: "Is the footage clear enough for a jury to identify and convict a complete stranger of a crime based on your footage?" If your cameras cannot do that, or can only do that under ideal situations (for example if the perp stands 5' from the camera and stands still while looking directly at the camera because the camera is mounted 15' in the air and normally only captures the tops of people's heads), then you have wasted your money and worse yet, given you a false sense of security.

If I had some sort of incident at night that my Reolink or SV3C cameras caught and I needed to provide the footage from those cameras to the police as part of their investigation - the footage would be worthless. Sure the footage would clearly show that someone was walking around, but actually being able to provide clear enough footage to allow a jury to identify and convict a subject is not the same as seeing someone walk around. If you are honest with yourself and review your nighttime Reolink footage with that goal in mind, I think you will come to the same conclusion.

I posted 2 photos both with no lights on which is not ideal condition in my case being i got motion lights all around my property. There is no just no way you can walk around and not be under one. You neighbor is an idiot for placing camera 20' in the air, they are basically useless as they are too high. All of my cameras are 8.5-9.5' and all area got external light. The only thing that might be an issue is a plate but i haven't played around with that as you can do frame by frame with Reolink software, so it might be possible to see the plate despite it seem like it's just reflecting light off and making image unreadable. I honestly was looking for a kit as i just don't have time to set up software on the computer and play around with it. Yes i have seen much better cameras but price was much higher which at this time i just didn't want to pay. Most of people that install cameras around here use Ring and they are basically biggest crap i ever seen. If Reolink was that bad, i would have returned the system. In the future, I'll probably replace them with different brand as i am sure they will start dying in the next 3-5 years. Wiring is already in place so it should not be an issue.

 

[The Automation Guy]

I posted 2 photos both with no lights on which is not ideal condition in my case being i got motion lights all around my property.

First, let me say thank you for posting those. I saw them after I made my post. (It took a while for me to formulate my post from start to finish).

I realize that is a picture of a screen, so the image quality isn't as good as the original footage, but even on the closer image, I honestly cannot tell if the subject has a beard and/or moustache or if those are just heavy shadows on the face. I can tell it is a Caucasian male with short hair, but that is about it. If the police put a picture lineup of eight similar looking people in front of me, I certainly could not pick the correct person out. This is why everyone says that Reolinks are not very good.

I'll try to post a couple of example's from my cameras (the better ones, not the Reolink or SV3C) in similar lighting and distances for comparison later tonight.

 

[sebastiantombs]

Here's a partial frame from about 5AM this morning from a Dahua 5442T-AS with a 6mm lens. The subject is about 25-30 feet from the camera and the IR in the camera is off. There is some IR from a 3241T-ZAS but is actually pretty minimal.

 

[iivisionii]

Here's a partial frame from about 5AM this morning from a Dahua 5442T-AS with a 6mm lens. The subject is about 25-30 feet from the camera and the IR in the camera is off. There is some IR from a 3241T-ZAS but is actually pretty minimal.

View attachment 90703

My first reaction is cool. Is there an external light being you mentioned IR is off except for another IR whatever light it might be giving.

 

[wittaj]

Plates are an art as much as a science, so with a 2.8 or 3.6mm lens you will not capture plates regardless of the make of camera, except for those across the pond with a ton of light and big @$$ plates the size of a bumper lol .

You have to optically zoom to just the size of the vehicle to make the plates large and you have to be able to set a fast shutter like 1/2000 and have the camera not override it like a reo will. As such, at night all you see is black except for the head/tail light and plate. Here is a sample of what it would look like: