Replacing deprecated system, totally blown away by cam options

GreyTheOld

GreyTheOld

Young grasshopper
Oct 26, 2017
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First---I'm an IT guy and network technician, so cabling and such is no worry.

Replacing a ~5 year old 960H junk china system that's actually served me pretty well. Was considering wifi for ease of installation but I really, really am enamored with these higher definition options.

I've got a stack of decommissioned Optiplex 970's here, they're i5 2xxx's, with up to 16Gb of Ram. I currently run 6 cams but can totally safely drop to 4 for right now. I was looking at standalone NVR's but I think I'd prefer to go solid IP and use BlueIris on one of the Optiplexes. My whole house is wired gigabit + a/c. It looks like I should be good with this tower and decent cams given how few I need, yes?

I need outdoor bullets for now (I want some inside too, but that's later), PoE, the clearest possible picture. I saw the Dahua Starlights and they look amazing to me, I have no need for zoom and really the farthest I need to be able to see is ~50 feet. No need for any PTZ or speakers, etc.
 
GreyTheOld said:
First---I'm an IT guy and network technician, so cabling and such is no worry.

Replacing a ~5 year old 960H junk china system that's actually served me pretty well. Was considering wifi for ease of installation but I really, really am enamored with these higher definition options.

I've got a stack of decommissioned Optiplex 970's here, they're i5 2xxx's, with up to 16Gb of Ram. I currently run 6 cams but can totally safely drop to 4 for right now. I was looking at standalone NVR's but I think I'd prefer to go solid IP and use BlueIris on one of the Optiplexes. My whole house is wired gigabit + a/c. It looks like I should be good with this tower and decent cams given how few I need, yes?

I need outdoor bullets for now (I want some inside too, but that's later), PoE, the clearest possible picture. I saw the Dahua Starlights and they look amazing to me, I have no need for zoom and really the farthest I need to be able to see is ~50 feet. No need for any PTZ or speakers, etc.
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Welcome GreyTheOld,

Sounds like you're ready to have some fun here.

It's easy to get swamped with information here, so I wanted to share some notes with you

Please check out @giomania 's notes:
Dahua Starlight Varifocal Turret (IPC-HDW5231R-Z)

I have also made notes which are a summary of a lot of the reading I've been doing here,:
Looking for some advice and direction!

Have fun joining us here.
 
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It is hard to go wrong with the IPC-HDW5231R-Z. But if you are confident you would only use a fairly wide angle then you can save some money and get fixed-focus models instead.

Dahua Starlight Fixed Lens Turret (IPC-HDW4231EM-AS)

I encourage you to play around with this camera calculator: IPVM Camera Calculator V3

Click Add Camera, then choose Imager size 1/2.8" (that is what Dahua's 2MP starlights use) and resolution 1080p. Then you can enter different focal lengths and distances and see what your pixels-per-foot would be and even see a simulated image showing the level of detail you can expect. You should notice that wide angles do very poorly for capturing details 50 feet away, and are better around 10-20 feet or closer.
 
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Thanks to both of you. I have to admit I'm having a senior moment here, perhaps you can help me. I'm looking at many cams @ Andy's store that seem that they should work fine but I'm mostly only seeing PAL listed as the video format. Are we recording in PAL generally?

I found the 4231 here, but I also found this, which seems to be the new version, again though it talks about PAL up top. Any guidance there?

Playing with the camera calculator now.
 
GreyTheOld said:
Thanks to both of you. I have to admit I'm having a senior moment here, perhaps you can help me. I'm looking at many cams @ Andy's store that seem that they should work fine but I'm mostly only seeing PAL listed as the video format. Are we recording in PAL generally?

I found the 4231 here, but I also found this, which seems to be the new version, again though it talks about PAL up top. Any guidance there?

Playing with the camera calculator now.
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Hi GreyTheOld,

Not a senior moment at all.

PAL vs NTSC - used to make a bigger difference w/cctv, however not such a big deal with IP cameras.

So don't worry about it too much.

[ Also remember to ask Andy for a IPcamtalk member discounted price, which will help save you a little bit extra ]
 
Ahhhhh. Ok. This eases me some. Fwiw, my ranges are all very short. Front porch, back porch, carport covering my bike and car. 50' would shoot through the back porch and cover the car as well. This album got my thief found a few weeks ago, but I'm not satisfied with the system at all.

Thanks for the help. Was hoping to spend less than $500 on 4 cams...hmmm.
 
GreyTheOld said:
Ahhhhh. Ok. This eases me some. Fwiw, my ranges are all very short. Front porch, back porch, carport covering my bike and car. 50' would shoot through the back porch and cover the car as well. This album got my thief found a few weeks ago, but I'm not satisfied with the system at all.

Thanks for the help. Was hoping to spend less than $500 on 4 cams...hmmm.
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Hi Grey

LOL... I had similar hopes.... $2k+ later... ;-P

So, I recommend not thinking about budget right now - that will just throw you off.

Look at your requirements first.

What do you want?

Here's a clip from my notes at another site:

What do you want to accomplish with a security camera system?
Is the day time more of a threat? or night time? If night time look at the starlight models referenced here. If a combination get both starlights and consider good 4K cameras.
See what happened?
Potentially ID suspects?
Help deter criminal activities?
Keep an eye on your car parked in your drive way? in the street?
Potentially ID cars which suspects maybe using?
Watch of other activities, wild animals, your dogs, your cats, birds,..
While you are thinking about these issues, you will need to look at potential camera installation locations and measure the distance to the potential suspect and determine if you are within the ID distance. You may need a camera with a better "zoom".


Use the IPVM tool bp2008 linked you to. That will help you a LOT to plan what you'd like. Don't be surprised if the technology doesn't match what Hollywood CSI shows have been selling us. ;-)
 
For sure. I did that, I need to check the FOV's of the cam's I'm looking at and play some more. Budget would be less of a constraint if I hadn't just bought a new PC and a new high-end drone and a new high end kayak, lol. Priorities, I guess. ;-)

Daytime is PROBABLY a greater threat to me than night time, but obvs I want video of nighttime too. I just want to see video of everyone who touches my property. I have some of my current cams visible (porch, I've got lots of video of people walking up, seeing the camera, and turning around) and some less visible (garage, see album above). I've also got a damned lot of feral cats who cause motion alerts 50 times a day and it drives me nuts, lol.
 
GreyTheOld said:
For sure. I did that, I need to check the FOV's of the cam's I'm looking at and play some more. Budget would be less of a constraint if I hadn't just bought a new PC and a new high-end drone and a new high end kayak, lol. Priorities, I guess. ;-)

Daytime is PROBABLY a greater threat to me than night time, but obvs I want video of nighttime too. I just want to see video of everyone who touches my property. I have some of my current cams visible (porch, I've got lots of video of people walking up, seeing the camera, and turning around) and some less visible (garage, see album above). I've also got a damned lot of feral cats who cause motion alerts 50 times a day and it drives me nuts, lol.
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LOL...

well you can plan to replace or get new cameras 1-2 at a time...

For daylight cameras I am liking the 4K models that are coming out. For night time the Starlight series wins.

Here's a kit w/Dahua OEM 4K cameras you can use to compare your options to
FYI - Some local Costco B&M have a Lorex / Dahua OEM 4K 6x camera kit and 8 port NVR for $800

Check out the notes for links to threads where 4K cameras are compared to others. You can buy a 4K camera separately ( iirc $150-200 or so ).

Thankfully there are a lot of ways to customize a decent system - I ended up customizing around the starlight varifocal cameras since low light was my greatest threat time.

many options, so do feel free to take some time to dig around here and see what others have used and are testing.
 
Roger that, all over it. I saw the lorex 4k's before I came here, actually. Really wanting to roll my own nvr for a few reasons (hardening, for example) but I'm not opposed to other options. I don't think the box I have has the guts for 4k in any regard though. :(

I notice that the dauha 2mp's seem to have better res than a lot of the 4mp options out there, so...I'm kinda unsure. I will def look at kits though. Thx again.
 
GreyTheOld said:
Roger that, all over it. I saw the lorex 4k's before I came here, actually. Really wanting to roll my own nvr for a few reasons (hardening, for example) but I'm not opposed to other options. I don't think the box I have has the guts for 4k in any regard though. :(

I notice that the dauha 2mp's seem to have better res than a lot of the 4mp options out there, so...I'm kinda unsure. I will def look at kits though. Thx again.
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Hi Grey,

The 2MP starlights are simply the best value for low light out there right now, and they're great for that. During the day light however the 4K cameras are getting better details.

So unless the budget is large and we can deploy more cameras, we're going to have to compromise some place. Thankfully I found this forum and the folks here have been great pointing me to products which are good quality so that I am not tossing them out after 1 year ( like some prior "junk" products I had purchased )
 
If you want to lower your budget expenditure somewhat, consider one of the many Chinese Dahua H.265 IPC-HDW4431C-A cameras out there. Good quality 4 megapixel cameras with decent night/IR vision. They're not Starlight cameras by a long shot, but still good quality for a decent price. Worst problem is not being able to update the firmware, since the English menus on them are hacked onto them. Although you can check out the @cor35vet thread for his hacked Dahua firmware, which works VERY well.

Here's one from XinRay Store on AliExpress. I've purchased from them before, and can vouch for them as a reliable vendor.
 
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GreyTheOld said:
First---I'm an IT guy and network technician, so cabling and such is no worry...
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I find your Avatar image disturbing. What is that? A walking erection? With a thumb sticking out of it's ass..or balls...or what the fuck?
 
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I thought it was Richard Head's brother, Peter.

True story...when I was little my dad worked with a guy at the airlines name 'Dick Vinyl'. Honest. They called him 'Peter Plastic'.
 
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VorlonFrog: Thanks, checking it out!

Q-yes, sorry. I used my Google account to connect here and it pulled the avatar over automagically. It's dickbutt.
 
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VorlonFrog said:
If you want to lower your budget expenditure somewhat, consider one of the many Chinese Dahua H.265 IPC-HDW4431C-A cameras out there. Good quality 4 megapixel cameras with decent night/IR vision. They're not Starlight cameras by a long shot, but still good quality for a decent price. Worst problem is not being able to update the firmware, since the English menus on them are hacked onto them. Although you can check out the @cor35vet thread for his hacked Dahua firmware, which works VERY well.

Here's one from XinRay Store on AliExpress. I've purchased from them before, and can vouch for them as a reliable vendor.
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Anyone know why the price difference between these two? Same model number, same seller, $12 difference in price. I'm I blind?
DaHua IPC HDW4431C A POE Network IR Mini Dome IP Camera With Built in Micro Full HD 1080P 4MP CCTV Camera-in Surveillance Cameras from Security & Protection on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group

DaHua IP Camera IPC HDW4431C A POE Network Mini Dome Camera With Built in Micro Full HD 1080P 4MP CCTV Camera-in Surveillance Cameras from Security & Protection on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group
 
looney2ns said:
Anyone know why the price difference between these two? Same model number, same seller, $12 difference in price. I'm I blind?
DaHua IPC HDW4431C A POE Network IR Mini Dome IP Camera With Built in Micro Full HD 1080P 4MP CCTV Camera-in Surveillance Cameras from Security & Protection on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group

DaHua IP Camera IPC HDW4431C A POE Network Mini Dome Camera With Built in Micro Full HD 1080P 4MP CCTV Camera-in Surveillance Cameras from Security & Protection on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group
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Hmmm... looks the same. Noticed that some vendors has multiple listing of the same items at different prices...

wondering if one include a ac adapter? or if it is just a test of some sort
 
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