Review - Dahua SD49225XA-HNR 2MP 25x Starlight + IR PTZ AI Camera with Deep IVS & SMD Plus

[FlipNJ]

You asked for it @rcirz so I'm going to provide a lot of detail on this

First, Auto Tracking exists in generally 2 ways within PTZ’s that support it, Alarm Tracking as part of an IVS rule (and generally part of most cams) and Auto Tracking (under the Intelligence menu of PTZ function). The latter was always part of the Pro and above line of PTZ’s but recently with the advent of newer AI cams has been dropped in a number of models in favor of Alarm Tracking. These forms of Auto Tracking are where the camera has full autonomy on what it tracks within a given scene based on a triggered rule (intrusion or tripwire). In older models, things like lights, shadows, leaves etc could throw the camera off, newer models don't suffer from this as much.

To be honest Auto Tracking under the Intelligence menu was never that great which is why for Auto Tracking enabled cams you will hear myself and others talk about using Alarm Tracking through IVS triggers as the favored approach. This approach allows for much more configuration tweaking and really allows you to dial in the Auto Tracking, within reason. The caveat here is that any form of Auto Tracking will never be 100% just by nature of what it is trying to do within its FOV BUT using Alarm Track (for cams that support Auto Tracking) gives you a much better chance to get a usable end result.

Now with all that said when I mention MD, IVS triggers and Presets or PTZ activation that is different again and is available on ‘all’ PTZ’s and associated NVRs / NVR platforms. Using this method you don’t need Auto Tracking (neither of the two options above in first paragraph). Instead you setup an equivalent, I would argue better (as its more configurable) experience.

Below are just a couple of quick examples, can go into more IVS related detail later if needed


1st example - below is all achievable on cam

• Set 4 presets (#1 front door, #2 driveway wide, #3 side street, #4 vehicle in driveway)
• Set tour, scan, pattern to move between the above or scan your property in general at set durations of your choosing
• IVS in each preset (based on camera features) can be set for object filtering for human vs vehicle etc
• Then can use Motion detection on cam to enable PTZ activation to a specific preset when motion detected on current scene that the tour is facing
• IVS rule gets tripped, and scene is captured

So what could this look like in a scenario. Cam is on tour, as it gets to the driveway it detects motion in that scene and calls/moves to preset 4 which is a closeup of the vehicle and then the IVS rule for that preset kicks in and you capture an individual by your car.


2nd example - Using NVR - Multi cam ‘spotter & overwatch’ approach

• Cam 1 = LPR cam covering approach to property
• Cam 2 = Static driveway
• Cam 3 = Sidewalk shot
• Cam 4 = Front door
• Cam 5 = PTZ at front of property

Preset configuration on PTZ

• Preset 1 = Close up of approach to property
• Preset 2 = Vehicle shots on driveway
• Preset 3 = Close up of sidewalk to property
• Preset 4 = Close up of pathway to front door

In this scenario your 4 static spotter cams are setup with their regular IVS rules to capture intrusion or tripwire. However 1 IVS rule (or more if you choose) per static cam is set for PTZ activation of a set preset. In this example Cam 1 detects a vehicle approaching, captures its plate, the vehicle triggers the IVS tripwire on the LPR cam which through the NVR then activates the PTZ and calls it to Preset 1 which is just in time to get a nice image of the car driving towards your property. Then the occupant exits the vehicle and starts up the sidewalk towards your driveway, Cam 3 kicks in, tripwire triggered, calls PTZ to Preset 3, body shot of individual. Then they walk up to your vehicle on the driveway which triggers Cam 2’s tripwire and calls the PTZ to Preset 2 now you have a nice closeup of face and anything the individual is trying to do on the vehicle (intent).

I think by now you get the idea and this is just a few examples of things I’ve set for some. This approach is WAY more accurate and gives you a lot more control and flexibility than Auto Tracking will ever give you, regardless of budget. This still is very much an art so if interested in these kind of setups you can always reach out. I've configured these on multi point sites and even building to building with shared infrastructure and 360 surveillance etc.

Now don’t get me wrong, Auto Tracking (through Alarm Track in IVS), when implemented well (as on the 49225 for example) is an AMAZING step up from where the feature started and with Deep IVS, SMD and AI (on some cams) help keep cams honest and dialed in with some phenomenal results. The Hunter series is another perfect example of innovation in this area where you have a panoramic cam feeding the PTZ location details to move to which in effect is PTZ activation on cam but with spotter (static) and overwatch (PTZ) built into 1.

Hope that gives you an idea of the types of Auto Tracking and the options everyone has in this area regardless of whether your PTZ supports it or not.

Lastly, lets not forget that Pan Tilt Zoom cams were originally built NOT to auto track but to be controlled (and still are in most installations) by manned security with control panel / joystick in real-time. Auto Tracking was to cover when they were off for a break

BTW Spotter and Overwatch are my names for these types of cam, taking T-shirt orders now

HTH

Thanks very much for the very clear description of examples of setups and the explanation of my question in regard to auto tracking and alarm tracking. So generally we get similar results from either auto tracking and IVS alarm tracking. I did have multiple cameras being used as spotters and it did work pretty well. My problem was exactly as you mentioned, shadows causing unfavorable reactions from the cameras logistics, to the point of setting the rules period to daylight hours in which shadows from passing cars lights would not be present. The SD59230 was an older design not equipped with AI or sufficient memory. It also lacked processing power to smoothly and effectively save a clip of the triggered events. I was able to find the newer SD49225XA but it is from another Chinese wholesaler which I have zero trust in. I plan to wait for Andy to return from his break and see it he can sell one or two to me. I am a little concerned about the known issue with the belt slipping and making grinding noises along with losing preset positions. Hope I don't get lemons. Once again, the time you take to help others as well as me is very much appreciated. Keep up the awesome help, you're great!

 

[Arjun]

Apparently some of the stock over at Amazon still contains the auto-tracking option

Indeed. It was astonishing Dahua did that. It's even more astonishing some appear to be going along with it as if such behaviour on the part of a manufacturer was perfectly acceptable.

And it's too bad. This camera was looking pretty interesting for a bit, there. Over twice as expensive as any camera I've bought, so far, but, still: I was thinking about it.

 

[th182]

This was exactly the problem I had with my Dahua SD49225XA-HNR I must admit yours sound worse than mine although I only ever recorded the sound inside my house as I could hear it from my living room making these grinding noises just when it lost Preset.

I tried all the firmware's Old and New and 3D PTZ files to date and non worked still lost Preset and made the horrendous sound you have shown here which has been well captured ( Well Done ) and thanks for sharing.

I will be waiting for the new SD5A425XA-HNR to arrive at my suppliers in the UK which will be around 4 -6 weeks time and in the meantime my Enhanced Training Course with Dahua would be complete hopefully.

It is a shame the camera has these known problems as it could have been the 2019 PTZ to beat.

Anyway Sorry to see you also having these problems and hope you get it resolved one way or another and no doubt you won't.

Under normal operation you cannot hear the PTZ inside the house but when it slips you can hear it and our dogs go nuts thinking someone is outside. I assume you sent yours back in? I am learning how to set up the IVS rules and plan to implement them instead of using Blue Iris to preset cycle.. but obviously the presets need to be accurate for the IVS rules to work.

 

[th182]

You asked for it @rcirz so I'm going to provide a lot of detail on this

First, Auto Tracking exists in generally 2 ways within PTZ’s that support it, Alarm Tracking as part of an IVS rule (and generally part of most cams) and Auto Tracking (under the Intelligence menu of PTZ function). The latter was always part of the Pro and above line of PTZ’s but recently with the advent of newer AI cams has been dropped in a number of models in favor of Alarm Tracking. These forms of Auto Tracking are where the camera has full autonomy on what it tracks within a given scene based on a triggered rule (intrusion or tripwire). In older models, things like lights, shadows, leaves etc could throw the camera off, newer models don't suffer from this as much.

To be honest Auto Tracking under the Intelligence menu was never that great which is why for Auto Tracking enabled cams you will hear myself and others talk about using Alarm Tracking through IVS triggers as the favored approach. This approach allows for much more configuration tweaking and really allows you to dial in the Auto Tracking, within reason. The caveat here is that any form of Auto Tracking will never be 100% just by nature of what it is trying to do within its FOV BUT using Alarm Track (for cams that support Auto Tracking) gives you a much better chance to get a usable end result.

Now with all that said when I mention MD, IVS triggers and Presets or PTZ activation that is different again and is available on ‘all’ PTZ’s and associated NVRs / NVR platforms. Using this method you don’t need Auto Tracking (neither of the two options above in first paragraph). Instead you setup an equivalent, I would argue better (as its more configurable) experience.

Below are just a couple of quick examples, can go into more IVS related detail later if needed


1st example - below is all achievable on cam

• Set 4 presets (#1 front door, #2 driveway wide, #3 side street, #4 vehicle in driveway)
• Set tour, scan, pattern to move between the above or scan your property in general at set durations of your choosing
• IVS in each preset (based on camera features) can be set for object filtering for human vs vehicle etc
• Then can use Motion detection on cam to enable PTZ activation to a specific preset when motion detected on current scene that the tour is facing
• IVS rule gets tripped, and scene is captured

So what could this look like in a scenario. Cam is on tour, as it gets to the driveway it detects motion in that scene and calls/moves to preset 4 which is a closeup of the vehicle and then the IVS rule for that preset kicks in and you capture an individual by your car.


2nd example - Using NVR - Multi cam ‘spotter & overwatch’ approach

• Cam 1 = LPR cam covering approach to property
• Cam 2 = Static driveway
• Cam 3 = Sidewalk shot
• Cam 4 = Front door
• Cam 5 = PTZ at front of property

Preset configuration on PTZ

• Preset 1 = Close up of approach to property
• Preset 2 = Vehicle shots on driveway
• Preset 3 = Close up of sidewalk to property
• Preset 4 = Close up of pathway to front door

In this scenario your 4 static spotter cams are setup with their regular IVS rules to capture intrusion or tripwire. However 1 IVS rule (or more if you choose) per static cam is set for PTZ activation of a set preset. In this example Cam 1 detects a vehicle approaching, captures its plate, the vehicle triggers the IVS tripwire on the LPR cam which through the NVR then activates the PTZ and calls it to Preset 1 which is just in time to get a nice image of the car driving towards your property. Then the occupant exits the vehicle and starts up the sidewalk towards your driveway, Cam 3 kicks in, tripwire triggered, calls PTZ to Preset 3, body shot of individual. Then they walk up to your vehicle on the driveway which triggers Cam 2’s tripwire and calls the PTZ to Preset 2 now you have a nice closeup of face and anything the individual is trying to do on the vehicle (intent).

I think by now you get the idea and this is just a few examples of things I’ve set for some. This approach is WAY more accurate and gives you a lot more control and flexibility than Auto Tracking will ever give you, regardless of budget. This still is very much an art so if interested in these kind of setups you can always reach out. I've configured these on multi point sites and even building to building with shared infrastructure and 360 surveillance etc.

Now don’t get me wrong, Auto Tracking (through Alarm Track in IVS), when implemented well (as on the 49225 for example) is an AMAZING step up from where the feature started and with Deep IVS, SMD and AI (on some cams) help keep cams honest and dialed in with some phenomenal results. The Hunter series is another perfect example of innovation in this area where you have a panoramic cam feeding the PTZ location details to move to which in effect is PTZ activation on cam but with spotter (static) and overwatch (PTZ) built into 1.

Hope that gives you an idea of the types of Auto Tracking and the options everyone has in this area regardless of whether your PTZ supports it or not.

Lastly, lets not forget that Pan Tilt Zoom cams were originally built NOT to auto track but to be controlled (and still are in most installations) by manned security with control panel / joystick in real-time. Auto Tracking was to cover when they were off for a break

BTW Spotter and Overwatch are my names for these types of cam, taking T-shirt orders now

HTH

Thank you for this awesome explanation!! I am starting to stumble my way though setting up some rules and would love a full video explaining all of it during your next review!

 

[ljw2k]

Under normal operation you cannot hear the PTZ inside the house but when it slips you can hear it and our dogs go nuts thinking someone is outside. I assume you sent yours back in? I am learning how to set up the IVS rules and plan to implement them instead of using Blue Iris to preset cycle.. but obviously the presets need to be accurate for the IVS rules to work.

When in normal operation no noise could be heard unless late at night no TV and then only a slight whoosh type of sound going from one extreme to another but that would be very acceptable for a PTZ this size. I have some recorded sound clips on my phone.

I did indeed return the camera to an address in NL where Andy wanted it to go and it was received and tested all working perfect which I find strange unless its fixed itself in the post .

As like yours mine was faulty so had to be returned, but it wasn't returned for fun it was clearly faulty like yours. If it was only loosing presets I could have worked around that with Wildcats method.

I still believe the problem lies in the PTZ motor mechanism and not the 3D positioning PTZ file or firmware.

 

[Arjun]

I don't think all batches have this problem, could just be a QC problem

 

[th182]

I don't think all batches have this problem, could just be a QC problem

I could certainly see that being the case. Andy had said there were only a few people who had issues and the vast majority were working flawless to his knowledge. Just sucks when a malfunctioning one makes its way to you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[djernie]

When in normal operation no noise could be heard unless late at night no TV and then only a slight whoosh type of sound going from one extreme to another but that would be very acceptable for a PTZ this size. I have some recorded sound clips on my phone.

I did indeed return the camera to an address in NL where Andy wanted it to go and it was received and tested all working perfect which I find strange unless its fixed itself in the post .

As like yours mine was faulty so had to be returned, but it wasn't returned for fun it was clearly faulty like yours. If it was only loosing presets I could have worked around that with Wildcats method.

I still believe the problem lies in the PTZ motor mechanism and not the 3D positioning PTZ file or firmware.

Well you know how it goes when you tell the mechanic the car is acting stupid making all kinds of sounds when i do this. The mechanic says i had your car for a week and i cannot duplicate the problem. As soon as you pick it up and drive away the problem is back.

 

[Wildcat_1]

Quick update from me on this. As I mentioned, now have 3 of these and apart from the original issue on 1 with 8/02 FW (which I trapped before fixing with FW and sent to Dahua for continued investigation), no issues on that since or the others. Each of these 3 are from different batches and all Auto Tracking as I mentioned before. As you know by now, I push my cams hard so definitely would be seeing this on a continuous basis if it existed on these. @th182 going to DM you, something I would be interested in having you try.

 

[ljw2k]

I can't recall mine ever loosing preset when pushed hard going through set presets moving from one extreme to another, only when it was set to auto tracking or manually moved and zoomed did it make that horrendous grinding noise it lost preset.

 

[mech]

Quick update from me on this. As I mentioned, now have 3 of these and apart from the original issue on 1 with 8/02 FW (which I trapped before fixing with FW and sent to Dahua for continued investigation), no issues on that since or the others. Each of these 3 are from different batches and all Auto Tracking as I mentioned before. As you know by now, I push my cams hard so definitely would be seeing this on a continuous basis if it existed on these. @th182 going to DM you, something I would be interested in having you try.

Out of curiosity, are you testing them outdoors in lower temperatures? I was thinking about possible contributing factors.

 

[Wildcat_1]

Hey @mech, yes mine are all outdoors (although I do bench test everything before hand) and endure everything from heat to snow as you may have seen from my vids and other reviews I push each aspect of the cameras I have as well as those I test so these have all been through Auto Tracking (as these 3 still had it), IVS rule triggers, MD, manual tracking and user controlled PTZ. These are in rotation and then get swapped out as I upgrade, move or install elsewhere etc. As I mentioned, my cams are not exempt from issues, in this case my 1st cam too had the preset slip but since the upgrade from the original 8/02 never had an issue. This particular cam plays a very active role each night and is also part of the triangulation configuration I mentioned above both in an automated and manual way.

HTH


@ljw2k mine are used that way though as mentioned in the walkthrough above.

Out of curiosity, are you testing them outdoors in lower temperatures? I was thinking about possible contributing factors.

 

[wittaj]

You all have probably tried this, but if not, thought I would suggest it as it has worked on my not to be named cheap PTZ camera LOL.

When the preset's slipped (I figured out on mine it was usually from taking it down for adjustments or cleaning the lens and it moves or sending too many PTZ commands at once) that the presets would get off. and you would hear the grinding.

I found that if I unplug it from power, go out and lightly spin it and then plug power back to it, it goes thru some sort of re-calibration and when it comes on line, everything is back to normal and the presets go to the areas that I had set and the grinding goes away. A reboot wouldn't fix it, only a complete cut of power.

May or may not work, but if it works on a cheapo maybe it will for a better PTZ?

 

[Wildcat_1]

I like the .....he who shall not be named PTZ you mention

Yes as I mentioned a few posts ago, definitely a PTZ can be jostled, mis-aligned etc when on power, cutting power mid movement, moving to final position, in transit, when mounting etc and definitely can cause a louder sound as the camera attempts to recalibrate itself on initial boot or power up. Absolutely doesn't just affect cheaper 'no name' PTZ's. I've seen this issue on super expensive PTZs as well and therefore is always something I recommend people be cautious of and plan for when testing and installing a PTZ.

Similarly you can find that if you have jostled the cam head on a PTZ enough that it can also impact its vertical thresholds as well. Camera believes it is at max tilt etc when its not, this can be re-calibrated manually but is not something fixed by a PTZ restart alone usually. I've seen this myself and always warn people about being careful on install (even unpacking the unit) as one of the first things many people do is take off the factory tape holding the head in position, go to install and then inadvertently move the head (its hard not to) which then absolutely gives of a louder than usual sound on initial boot as the camera complains about being man-handled Again, simple fix if you know what you're doing but always better to plan ahead and be careful on these types of unit. The larger, heavier and more expensive the PTZ, the larger the motor and stronger the tension but believe it or not can still easily be moved or jostled in this way.

You all have probably tried this, but if not, thought I would suggest it as it has worked on my not to be named cheap PTZ camera LOL.

When the preset's slipped (I figured out on mine it was usually from taking it down for adjustments or cleaning the lens and it moves or sending too many PTZ commands at once) that the presets would get off. and you would hear the grinding.

I found that if I unplug it from power, go out and lightly spin it and then plug power back to it, it goes thru some sort of re-calibration and when it comes on line, everything is back to normal and the presets go to the areas that I had set and the grinding goes away. A reboot wouldn't fix it, only a complete cut of power.

May or may not work, but if it works on a cheapo maybe it will for a better PTZ?

 

[wittaj]

I was hoping to replace the to remain nameless PTZ with this model even with buggy autotracking, but that feature appears to now be taken away, so I guess more research LOL...

 

[Wildcat_1]

Well as I mentioned above, I wouldn’t right any PTZ off just for Auto Tracking because using the IVS triggers, MD, PTZ activation etc you can end up with a more rock solid capture setup anyway.

I was hoping to replace the to remain nameless PTZ with this model even with buggy autotracking, but that feature appears to now be taken away, so I guess more research LOL...

 

[wittaj]

@Wildcat_1 yes I am looking at your posts on that now as well and trying to decide if I want to attempt to even add my to remain nameless PTZ into my hopefully arriving soon NVR and see if I can make a go of it, or will adding this nameless PTZ to the NVR just royally screw things up. I tend to tinker to the point of messing it up and having to start over LOL

 

[Wildcat_1]

Hahah you can only learn more about technology by pulling it apart, pushing it to its limits then putting it back together minus 1 screw

@Wildcat_1 yes I am looking at your posts on that now as well and trying to decide if I want to attempt to even add my to remain nameless PTZ into my hopefully arriving soon NVR and see if I can make a go of it, or will adding this nameless PTZ to the NVR just royally screw things up. I tend to tinker to the point of messing it up and having to start over LOL

 

[Wildcat_1]

Reach out and DM if you need assistance

Hahah you can only learn more about technology by pulling it apart, pushing it to its limits then putting it back together minus 1 screw

 

[Arjun]

I received the Loryta from Amazon for this model has build-date 12/19 with 8/19 firmware. How do I know this has autotracking or not? Can you show based on the Web Interface? Thanks

System VersionV2.800.0000000.17.R.P9.2520.UN.NR, Build Date: 2019-08-19
WEB VersionV3.2.1.776963
ONVIF Version18.12(V2.4.5.729857)
PTZ VersionV2.401.0000000.41.RHNZ_190712_32701
Security Baseline VersionV2.0

Dec 2019 build date running 8/19 FW (my personal favorite FW for this cam currently). This one has Auto Tracking as well so is one of the last batch to have before Dahua disabled in my opinion.