RG59 Heretic from PA

[Timothy Wright]

Good bye and God Bless

 

[alastairstevenson]

you guys still burn heretics at the stake?

That happens every second day. In a virtual way, of course.
Welcome to the forum!

 

[crw030]

Welcome!

I feel like had you visited here first and done some research you might have been able to get a nicer system built on Blue Iris and some Dahua 2MP cameras that are quite good at night.
Not sure what the lighting is like where you will be installing, but if your problems occur at night, those 5MP will probably have a hard time seeing without substantial additional light, I know mine does.

 

[Q™]

Welcome Timothy!

 

[fenderman]

If I may introduce myself, I'm Timothy. About 15 years ago I purchased a nice home in a declining neighborhood. I never expected all the problems I've had. About 12 years ago I had a professionally installed (8) NTSC camera over coax system installed. The NVR was junk. I paid far too much for that system. Three years ago I added (8) more 1080p cameras and replaced the cheap NVR and I am still not happy with resolution or quality of night imagery.


This Christmas, my gift to myself is a new smart (has VCA features) NVR with (2) 10TB hard drives and (16) new 5MP cameras.


I understand that the name of this forum is "ipcamtalk" but cameras are not IP, you guys still burn heretics at the stake?


The new NVR is working just fine, I'll start swapping out cameras soon after Santa fills the stockings. The new cameras are all 5MP dome with Sony Starvis, EXIR, true D/N, DNR and Varifocal. I look forward to having them all up and running.


Cameras and NVR are all Alibi brand.


I have been told to avoid "H265+", stay with plain old H265. Playback issues?


All I know about VCA I learned on youtube, so that makes me a VCA virgin. I look forward to learning.


Total parts bill was just under $3,000 including the two hard drives. Thank God I'm divorced I'd hate to beg for spousal approval when the same money could be better spent on diamonds, furs and Jack Daniels.

unfortunately, the cameras will perform poorly at night. You need large sensors for good low light performance and you want to avoid domes. Read the cliff notes in the wiki.

 

[fenderman]

I am confused, how or why would Sony Starvis cameras perform poorly at night? That is what they do best. I will read the wiki cover to cover tonight. Thank you for the suggestion and link.

The title "starvis" on a sensors as little to no meaning. You have not told us the model you are using, but there is a very high probability that you dont have a camera that performs well at night. You made the mistake of chasing megapixels. Additionally the dome is the worst option for good nighttime images at they often suffer from IR reflection. There are 5mp sensors that perform well in low light, however, they are likely not in the cameras you purchased.

 

[fenderman]

The cameras are still in the box, but I have seen their output at least on youtube. I think I'll be OK.
Alibi WL-TC5DV (Link) or Alibi WL-TC5DV

the NVR is a WL-T611H which is the unbranded version of Alibi 4100H.

And I have one 5MP pinhole camera hidden inside.

I maybe wrong about "chasing megapixels" but it is all on my mastercharge, if it does not work as promised to me on the phone it is all going back and I am not paying for it.

About a week ago a gentleman did not notice the 12 exterior cameras and stole a package of dog treats off of my porch. I have it on camera but the quality is not what one might hope. I gave the police the video. This gentleman should hope the police catch him .....

In theory, I maybe wrong this is a great time to replace cameras because the latest generation of cameras have true night vision that works, chasing megapixels is not a bad thing, and Video Content Analysis is much better than old motion detection. I saved 16 camera screen shots to compare to and if the new system is not "day and night better" by a mile I'm not paying for it.

I friend of my, on my advice, recently replaced one of the first flat screen Sony TVs made with a new Samsung. He is very happy, technology gets better during a 20 year wait. Nothing could bloom worse than my old NTSC quality bullet cams.

I have two service dogs, a 12 year old and his spare (7 month old black lab puppy). By law service dogs can not be aggressive. I wish I had old "Joy" back my Cain Corso. She would give this guy enough stitches, he could teach embroidery class. When I told Amazon I had a video and police report number I had a same day credit, which is not what I wanted, I'd like to see this guy with 250 stitches in his arse.

Thank you for an thoughtful and intelligent reply, I'm not against progress that works, I know what I have and it is not enough. I am guardly hopeful that technology improves over a 12 year period.

I did read your wiki cover to cover last night and agree with much of it. I do believe over time that technology will catch up and better cameras will win the day over old technology. Very nice stuff about number of pixels needed to identify faces in particular.

Alibi is rebranded hikvision at a premium cost. Alibi does not provide the sensors size (deliberately) This is likely the unit you have and it has a 1/3 sensor.
https://us.hikvision.com/sites/default/files/thd_ds-2ce56h1t-avpit3z_080218na_0.pdf
I can tell you with certainty that it will perform poorly in low light and night. The proper test is not how it performs compared to your last system, it is how does it perform compared to other cameras on the market that cost the same (or even less).
Technology has improved. You just need to know what you are buying. It is very telling that they used a still shot (which is still not that great) on their youtube videos.

 

[fenderman]

I am working my way through the 4 PDF files in the top topic above, and looked up "Blue Iris" which is a web interface not a complete replacement for my NVR. I never heard of Blue Iris before I found this forum. It may take me a few hours to catch up today. Thank you all for your patience.

You are a bit confused. Blue iris is a VMS and a complete replacement for a DVR/NVR. Its is much more powerful and customizable than any standalone unit could ever be. It also includes a web interface, but requires the server software to run.

 

[aristobrat]

I am confused, how or why would Sony Starvis cameras perform poorly at night? That is what they do best.

STARVIS image sensors are great, but not all perform the same in low-light.

My 6MP STARVIS camera has a min lux rating of .3 lux.

My 2MP STARVIS camera has a min lux rating of .05 lux

Both cameras use STARVIS image sensors, but there’s def a diff between their low-light abilites.

The 2MP “only” has 2MP of pixels projecting down on a 1/2.8” sensor.

The 6MP has 3x as many pixels projecting down on a 1/2.9” sensor. That makes the physical size of each pixel on the sensor smaller than the size of 2MP worth of pixels projecting down on to a 1/2.8” sensor.

Bigger physical pixel size allows for more light to be collected per pixel which helps make a better low-light image especially when movement is involved.

It’s a great forum of folks here. Welcome!

 

[TonyR]

Welcome to IPCT, Timothy!

 

[looney2ns]

Welcome,
Don't reinvent the wheel, there are MANY folks here that have been down the path of educating themselves about all this, and have received the T-shirt.
Read and listen.
If all your stuff is still in the box's, I'd ship it all back to Amazon right now, then continue your education here.
Blue Iris runs circles around any NVR.
Blue Iris - Video Security Software
One example: Review-Dahua Starlight IPC-HDW5231R-ZE 800 meter capable ePOE

 

[Q™]

I have seen their output at least on youtube

It might be said that truthful manufacturer's YouTube videos and nearly as rare as unicorns.

 

[fenderman]

I think fenderman is correct my Alibi is a HikVision. This (DS-2CE56H1T-AVPIT3Z 5 MP HD Motorized VF EXIR Dome Camera) Hikvision sells for $255 on Amazon. I paid $126 each for 15 of them. Mr Fenderman what would you recommend as a replacement camera?

Dont be confused by amazon pricing. That price is a third party seller charging way too much. You were overcharged.
If you want to stick with coax, see the dahua CVI line. There are many posts by @bigredfish with dahua 2mp starlight CVI cameras. Dahua also has some low light 8mp cameras but you need to make sure you get the correct model number with the large 1/1.8" sensor, not the 1/2.5".

 

[J Sigmo]

I really REALLY recommend seriously considering setting up a PC running Blue Iris rather than using any NVR.

The flexibility and capabilities are so far above what any NVR offers that I think you'll be very happy you went that way.

Next, I recommend IP cameras, especially POE IP cameras. That being done, to get to your question of what cameras would be better than the ones you just received. I think most folks here would recommend the Dahua 2 megapixel (1080P) starlight cameras.

Stay away from dome or bullet style. Try to get what are called "turret" or "eyeball" style cameras. They don't suffer from the spider web and internal reflection issues of the others.

I know this means sending back everything, and re-thinking it all. And that's a bummer. But if everything is still in its unopened boxes, it's well worth considering.

I learned the hard way myself. I bought a bunch of inexpensive cameras that work well in daylight, but are not very useful at night. I did go POE IP right off the bat, and got Blue Iris running right away.

But I didn't have a separate dedicated PC for Blue Iris until later. And that is also highly recommended. When I did later buy a separate PC for Blue Iris, transferring its license to the new PC was easy and smooth.

Get Fenderman to recommend a good refurb PC, and set that up with Blue Iris (BI), get a POE Ethernet switch with more ports than you think you will need, get an Asus router to make setting up Open VPN easy, get solid copper (not copper clad aluminum) Ethernet cable, and a bunch of 2MP Dahua Starlight cameras, and I don't see how you can go wrong.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[Q™]

the better equipment is sold only via installers

Actually, I've seen installers who mark up junk.

Very good cameras are available to consumers. But you as a consumer need to look past the "more is better" trap, try to avoid the desire for easy-answers, and do some studying. The result is you'll be greatly rewarded with a system that meets your needs at a fair price.

 

[Q™]

I still want 5MP dome

Why do you want a 5MP dome Timothy?

 

[looney2ns]

Didn't read the cliff notes did ya? Or the links I provided above. ALL of that info is contained in said cliff notes and in my links I posted above.

 

[Q™]

...you as a consumer need to look past the "more is better" trap, try to avoid the desire for easy-answers, and do some studying...

Didn't read the cliff notes did ya? Or the links I provided above. ALL of that info is contained in said cliff notes and in my links I posted above.

W O R D

 

[J Sigmo]

Domes are not good outdoors because the plastic domes degrade from sunlight (UV damage) and sandblasting from wind. The domes also create internal reflections that can be especially vexing if you try to use any built-in IR illuminators, or the camera receives any light directly from other light sources. Thus, they're usually not good at night.

Indoors, they can work OK, but I still prefer a turret (eyeball) style for best optical quality and spider web resistance.

I have yet to see any 5 megapixel cameras that offer acceptable low-light performance. I'm sure there will eventually be better ones, but right now, the state of the art just isn't there in security cameras. The 2 MP Dahua starlights are the top end low-light cameras at this point in time.

For well-lit areas, the 5 MP units may be fine. But remember that they will also fill your hard drives faster and slow down your system.

And if you really do need that high level of pixel coverage to get better resolution, consider adding more strategically aimed and zoomed Starlight cams rather than trying to achieve the pixel-coverage with high pilel-count cameras. Keep in mind that the optics of the high pixel-count cameras may not be good enough to really utilize all of the pixels of their sensors.

Folks here have an enormous amount of combined experience with all of this. So it makes sense to seek their advice and take it to heart.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[fenderman]

I would rather avoid being contentious, this is the second day of the octave of Christmas. I read both the cliffs notes and all the updates. I want 5MP because I want forensic resolution further out. I am a jerk of a human being, I don't want to intimidate, I want convictions, something robust to show a jury beyond a shadow of a doubt.

I spent time on //usdahuasecurity,com and called them, they are open today. Robert recommended ADI | Leading wholesale distributor and supplier of security & low voltage products. as a source they MSRP the A52AM9Z at $210. I may buy one and try it and compare to what I have now.

Thank to one and all for their kind assistance.

ok dont listen to the advice given here. You obviously know better. Since you NEED 5mp domes that are going to be shit at night. "forensically" wont be worth anything. Keep your new kit and keep being blissfully ignorant. Why stop at 5mp when there are 12mp cameras and as you have pointed out to us, more megapixels are better despite HARD evidence to the contrary. I dont think you understand how camera sensors megpixels work or how to properly gather evidence for your "jury".
You can lead a horse to water.
ADI wont sell to you.