Should I toss my hikvision setup?

[Hollywoodperth]

Hi,

I've got a new install of 2x 8mp hik cameras + hik nvr. It's wired up PoE with a dedicated 1 gbs switch.

Since the first day its never worked satisfactorily. I had to turn down the camera quality and fps otherwise the nvr couldn't be logged into or playback and only recorded intermittently. It now records fine but the quality of the interface is so bad I'm thinking about tossing the lot out.

I get 20 - 30 email alerts per day from "motion detected" when there's nothing.

If I change to a boundary/fence alarm I can't get the boundary off the playback/recording. It's a permanent highlighted box.

I want it to continuously recorded but hikvision then turns alarms off the timeline... so the playback interface has zero indication of when there was an alarm. It's all guess.

The browser interface is buggy and needs a plugin and even then doesn't work in Chrome.

My neighbour just installed a 8x camera UNV set up. He showed me on his phone, all working so perfectly seamlessly, alarms on the timeline, everything. Takes seconds to navigate. After all the issues with hik I couldn't believe it.

So do I toss the hik and if so what's the go-to set up? I want to keep it as poe.

Thanks in advance

 

[alastairstevenson]

Since the first day its never worked satisfactorily. I had to turn down the camera quality and fps otherwise the nvr couldn't be logged into or playback and only recorded intermittently. It now records fine but the quality of the interface is so bad I'm thinking about tossing the lot out.

That's not necessary if the NVR spec matches the cameras.
But you've not specified the models of either, so it's not possible to give a more constructive comment.

I get 20 - 30 email alerts per day from "motion detected" when there's nothing.

If you enable 'Rules' (Local in the web GUI config interface) you can see what motion detection took place.
Generally, the 'Smart events' allow tuning out of unwanted alerts for a scene with motion.

I want it to continuously recorded but hikvision then turns alarms off the timeline... so the playback interface has zero indication of when there was an alarm. It's all guess.

It is possible to get motion and VCA alerts on a continuous timeline. Though this varies with the interface, model and firmware version.

The browser interface is buggy and needs a plugin and even then doesn't work in Chrome.

The NVR 4.x firmware doesn't need a plugin to render video.

So do I toss the hik and if so what's the go-to set up? I want to keep it as poe.

I'm speculating that you have an older-model NVR that's not well matched to the 4k cameras.

 

[Hollywoodperth]

Sorry, of course

NVR - DS-7616NI-K2
Camera- DS2CD2185FWD-I

 

[SouthernYankee]

what is the frame rate of your cameras. Set it no higher than 15 fps.

from the specs.
2-ch @ 8 MP (25fps) / 4-ch @ 4MP (30fps) / 8-ch @ 1080p (30fps)

So if you are running your two cameras at 25 FPS you have maxed out the NVR.

The cameras are pro series bit there are much better cameras out there. he general rule is do not chase megapixels.
=======================================
My standard welcome to the forum message.

Read Study Plan before spending money
Cameras are for surveillance to get information for after the fact. Cameras are NOT a deterrent.

Please read the IP Cam Talk Cliff Notes and other items in the IP Cam Talk Wiki. (read on a real computer, not a phone). The wiki is in the blue bar at the top of the page.

Read How to Secure Your Network (Don't Get Hacked!) in the wiki also.


Quick start
1) If you do not have a wired monitored alarm system, get that first
2) Use Dahua starlight cameras or Hikvision darkfighter cameras if you need good low light cameras.
3) Start with a good variable focus camera, so you test for the correct lens,lighting, camera placement.
4) use a VPN to access home network (openVPN)
5) Do not use wifi cameras.
6) Do not use cloud storage
7) Do Not use uPNP, P2P, QR, do not open ports,
8) More megapixel is not necessarily better.
9) Avoid chinese hacked cameras (most ebay, amazon, aliexpress cameras(not all, but most))
10) Do not use reolink, ring, nest, Arlo, Vivint cameras (they are junk), no cloud cameras
11) If possible use a turret camera , bullet collect spiders, dome collect dirt and reflect light (IR)
12) Use only solid copper, AWG 23 or 24 ethernet wire. , no CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum)
13) use a test mount to verify the camera mount location. My test rig: rev.2
14) (Looney2ns)If you want to be able to ID faces, don't mount cams higher than 7ft. You want to know who did it, not just what happened.
15) Use a router that has openVPN built in (Most ASUS, Some NetGear....)
16) camera placement use the calculator... IPVM Camera Calculator
17) POE list PoE Switch Suggestion List
18) Camera Sensor size, bigger is general better Sensor Size Chart
19) Camera lens size, a bigger number give more range but less field of view. Which Security Camera Lens Size Should I Buy?
20) verify your camera placement, have a friend wearing a hoodie, ball cap and sunglasses looking down approach the house, can you identify them at night ?
21) DO NOT UPGRADE your NVR or camera unless you absolutely have a problem that needs to be fixed and known what you are doing, if you do you will turn it into a brick !!

======================================

 

[Hollywoodperth]

Thanks for the feedback so far.

Only 1 camera currently connected, the other is turned off for now (need to move it to a better spot).

Camera is set up as:

Resolution- 3840x2160
Bitrate- variable
Video quality- Highest
Frame rate- 6 fps
Max bitrate- 16384
Video encoding- H.265
H.265+- OFF
I Frame interval- 50
SVC- ON
Smoothing- 51

 

[Hollywoodperth]

That's not necessary if the NVR spec matches the cameras.
But you've not specified the models of either, so it's not possible to give a more constructive comment.


If you enable 'Rules' (Local in the web GUI config interface) you can see what motion detection took place.
Generally, the 'Smart events' allow tuning out of unwanted alerts for a scene with motion.


It is possible to get motion and VCA alerts on a continuous timeline. Though this varies with the interface, model and firmware version.


The NVR 4.x firmware doesn't need a plugin to render video.


I'm speculating that you have an older-model NVR that's not well matched to the 4k cameras.

My NVR firmware is 4.30.060 and it definately needs a plugin and even with the plugin still doesn't run in chrome.

Not sure what you mean by "rules" in the web interface. My NVR doesn't have that option.

Seems like maybe its the NVR thats the issue? My major problems are the terrible interface, etc. Although to be honest, it can't read a car number plate parked in the driveway across the road (distance probably 25m). I don't know if I'm expecting too much but to me I thought that would have been possible or should be possible.

 

[SouthernYankee]

most modern browser prevent plugins do to security concerns, CHROME, EDGE. Some of the older versions of IE will work. The recommend go to browser is PaleMoon 32 bit.

 

[Flintstone61]

googled a bit on that model #. NVR - DS-7616NI-K2
That Model number on Amazon, keeps showing that part number in various ways as a 16 channel device. They show some ending in Q2, and 4KSE.
NVR-DS-7608NI-K2... is an 8 channel model #.

Amazon.com : HikVision OEM POE 8 Ch 4K NVR 8MP Recording Resolution 4K HDMI Output H.265+ Embedded Plug and Play Network Video Recorder Model DS-7608NI-K2/8P (1TB HDD) : Electronics

Amazon.com : HikVision OEM POE 8 Ch 4K NVR 8MP Recording Resolution 4K HDMI Output H.265+ Embedded Plug and Play Network Video Recorder Model DS-7608NI-K2/8P (1TB HDD) : Electronics

www.amazon.com

 

[Hollywoodperth]

Just double checked via the browser GUI, it's definately a 7616. Although I don't run more than 8 cameras and never will so it shouldn't make a difference

 

[wittaj]

You should match iframe to FPS as well.

Using what I assume is a 2.8mm fixed lens for reading plates at 25M will not work. A camera is either an overview camera or optically zoomed to an area tighter to read plates.

Now I think your plates are larger than the US, so maybe you could see them a little easier, but generally we run two cameras - one overview and one to read plates.

Take a look at this chart - to identify someone with the 2.8mm lens that is popular, someone would have to be within 4m of the camera, but realistically within 3m after you dial it in to your settings. These distances would be close to the ability to read plates as well (although that is a function of the size plates too).

My neighbor was bragging to me how he only needed his 4 2.8mm fixed lens cams to see his entire property and the street and his whole backyard. His car was sitting in the driveway practically touching the garage door and his video quality was useless to ID the perp not even 3m away.

Consider a Blue Iris/computer combo as an NVR. Keep in mind an NVR is a stripped down computer after all....and isn't true plug-n-play like people believe. You still have to dial the cameras into your setting. Once you do that, might as well go with something that has the best chance of working with many different camera brands. And I have found Blue Iris to be more robust and easier than an NVR. As always, YMMV...

Many of us purchase a refurbished computers that are business class computers that have come off lease. The one I bought I kid you not I could not tell that it was a refurbished unit - not a speck of dust or dents or scratches on it. It appeared to me like everything was replaced and I would assume just the motherboard with the intel processor is what was from the original unit. I went with the lowest end processor on the WIKI list as it was the cheapest and it runs my system fine. Could probably get going for $200 or so. A real NVR will cost more than that.

A member here just last month found a refurbished 4th generation for less than $150USD that came with Win10 PRO, 16GB RAM, and a 1TB drive. Blue Iris has a demo, so try it out on an existing computer and see if you like it. You can pull the cameras from the Hikvision NVR right into Blue Iris by simply adding in the IP address of the NVR in the camera IP address of Blue Iris and then down about halfway is a camera # and you just select the camera number to bring in.

There is a big Blue Iris or NVR debate here LOL. Some people love Blue Iris and think NVRs are clunky and hard to use and others think Blue Iris is clunky and hard to use. I have done both and prefer Blue Iris. As with everything YMMV...

And you can disable Windows updates and set up the computer to automatically restart in a power failure, and then you have a more powerful NVR with a nice mobile viewing interface.

 

[Hollywoodperth]

Pro Series (All)

Hikvision NVRs: Advanced codecs for highly effective bandwidth and storage management. Explore More!

www.hikvision.com

Amazon.com: HIKVISION NVR DS-7616NI-K2/16P H.265 16-Channel PoE 4K Network Video Recorder NVR, Embedded Plug & Play : Electronics

Buy HIKVISION NVR DS-7616NI-K2/16P H.265 16-Channel PoE 4K Network Video Recorder NVR, Embedded Plug & Play: Surveillance Video Recorders - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

 

[Flintstone61]

DS2CD2185FWD-I

8 MP Network Dome Camera

Hikvision’s DS-2CD2185FWD-I provides important new technology for any security application. The H.265+ codec assures savings in bandwidth and storage. High quality and high resolution images are assured with the 8MP (3840 x 2160), 4K image sensor.

us.hikvision.com

 

[Flintstone61]

How many cameras are you running? 2?

 

[Hollywoodperth]

How many cameras are you running? 2?

1 right now. I've got a 2nd one that is turned off.

 

[Flintstone61]

I cannot directly compare my total and utter dissatisfation with my "nightowl" (Hikvision OEM) 8 channel 5MP Costco package. But yes the the interface for "continous record and motion record" is very scant and uninformative. I had to shut the alerts off. Cats, bunnies, School buses, free flying oak leaves, squirrels, all dam day. 3 years on, it's running, but you can't get anywhere with the mobile app. It only shows 3 days cameras have any recording calendar to view. the other ones do not record anything to the timeline. But if you you go to the chrome browser with the "IE tab" installed you can log in and its still wants "web Components.exe" installed.

 

[Hollywoodperth]

I cannot directly compare my total and utter dissatisfation with my "nightowl" (Hikvision OEM) 8 channel 5MP Costco package. But yes the the interface for "continous record and motion record" is very scant and uninformative. I had to shut the alerts off. Cats, bunnies, School buses, free flying oak leaves, squirrels, all dam day. 3 years on, it's running, but you can't get anywhere with the mobile app. It only shows 3 days cameras have any recording calendar to view. the other ones do not record anything to the timeline. But if you you go to the chrome browser with the "IE tab" installed you can log in and its still wants "web Components.exe" installed.

Thanks glad its not just me.

So to go back to the original question. Is it better persisting with hik (even if that means a component upgrade or 2) or is there a better alternative to go to and just toss out the hik completely?

 

[Flintstone61]

here is a fabuous chance to catch motion. A Gihugic trash truck. No motion detected. Nothing on timeline. If i select motion record in settings then the continous recordings stop and the timeline shows motion events only. I cant find any menu option to havecontinous with motion overlays on the timeline. Annoying , useless crap.

 

[wittaj]

Thanks glad its not just me.

So to go back to the original question. Is it better persisting with hik (even if that means a component upgrade or 2) or is there a better alternative to go to and just toss out the hik completely?

Yes, what I mentioned in Post #10...

@Flintstone61 recently made the jump to Blue Iris from NVRs, as have I and many others....

Try the demo and see for yourself. After 10 years of using different DVRs and NVRs, I stumbled upon this site and Blue Iris and within an hour of the demo, I was hooked and haven't looked back.

Blue Iris is always updating with new features...meanwhile the only time my NVRs got an update was when I bought a new one LOL as they never pushed out a firmware update...

 

[Flintstone61]

I think if you find a lower resolution camera like 4 mp with darkfighter technology it wouldn't struggle and get clunky.
But I wont spend any more money on mine. I collecting up the components to fire up a PC running Blue Iris.
the Amcrest NVR is a Dahua knock off that I have running at work. It is more user friendly, but you'll find your frustrations there as well with non-logical user interface that once you learn you can get shit done
but I have that streaming to my Blue iris computer at work. 2 channels. all motion being caught and saved. can whip through the timeline and fine anything, people come and ask me about....( I manage a 74 unit condo with 100 cars.) and about as many people. Nvr's, DVR's for me have been a time suck at work...the blue iris machine cuts my search time for "incidents" to seconds rather than minutes.

 

[Hollywoodperth]

OK, so a dedicated blue iris PC is better than any NVR on the market?

My issue is that all my equipment is in a custom enclosure with a 19in rack. I can go up to 2U... what's the chances of being able to put a decent priced PC into a 2U space?