Starting fresh, buying a Dahua NVR with PoE cams

[Sim31]

Hello! Im starting fresh once again with a new security camera system for a house I just recently closed on to help protect me and my family. Im retiring a old Amcrest 960H Camera System that had a 500GB HDD and looking to get something very nice and willing to spend some money.

Ive been doing alot of research (searching these forums for the most part) for some of the best cameras and a good NVR for my purposes. First off, after reading @nayr Post about some of the Dahua cameras he reviewed, ive made my pick and im going with the "Dahua Varifocal Turret (IPC-HDW5231R-Z)" model. Im going to get at least 1 of these and I was thinking one of the "Varifocal Bullet Z5 7-35mm (IPC-HFW5231E-Z5)" to try it out also as it looks to be superb from his review on it also.

Now, im running into a bump in the road, I searched for a good top choice NVR that most of you all are going with or top rate and im not seeing a very popular choice as there is a good handful of models out there. Im looking for something with a 1 or 2TB hard drive. Basically the functions I need is, everything that the cameras I chose is what I need the NVR to support. I seen some Dahua 4104 NVR's (the small white looking box), 42B2 model, 42A08 and the only difference I seen in the last 2 models I just mentioned is, one supports IVS recording? What exactly is that used for and what is needed with that?

If anyone is wondering also, at most for right now, im going to have 2 cameras for right now, maybe add 2 or 3 at the most down the road, having one on each corner of my house, enough to see detail of a subject or make/model of a car, etc from a 25 foot distance so im seeing a 8 channel NVR being my best option along with the night vision being better then what I was currently using (Amcrest) at my old residence. I just need a point to the right direction for a good NVR for the cameras im going to be purchasing.

Also I do not need a PoE Managed/Unmanaged switch will I? Just wanted to make sure, Im going to run some Cat 5? or Cat 6? cable throughout the attic in the house to the outside and run it to the bedroom NVR, im also going to have a 2 way HDMI splitter (running from the NVR) going to one TV in the bedroom and so I can have a additional tv in the main room in the corner in case im not in the bedroom able to monitor the cameras in there.

Thanks in advanced!

 

[giomania]

Hit the link in my signature for info on switches, Dahua NVR's, and a little bit on Blue Iris.

It may help you out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[smoothie]

It is preferential to match the brand of the cameras and the NVR, so Dahua cameras means Dahua NVR. Mixing brands works as well but you will lose out on the brand specific features as mixed brands will talk ONVIF to each other which is the most rudimentary security camera language.

Most NVR units from Dahua do not come with a hard drive installed, instead you choose the make and model and install it yourself. By far the most popular make and model for NVR hard drives are the Western Digital Purple drives, these are specifically made for NVRs and are designed for the nearly constant writing of data to the drives.

An 8 channel NVR does sound appropriate for your needs while allowing for some future expansion.

Check out the Camera Calculator / Design Software Security Camera Calculator to get an understanding of what your proposed cameras will and will not be able to achieve.

The Dahua NVR5208 for example might well suit your needs. It supports up to 2 HDD (8TB each) and can output 4k video which is very nice to have as you can run 4 full resolution 1080p cameras on one screen at the same time. This unit can have PoE or not depending on the exact model you buy. The "nvr5208-4ks2" is not PoE equipped, the "nvr5208-8p-4ks2" is PoE equipped. If you buy an NVR with PoE capabilities then no you will not need a separate PoE switch, if you buy an NVR without PoE then you would need either a PoE switch or PoE injectors for each camera. Given your interest in 2 cameras to start it may be cheaper to buy a non-PoE NVR and simply use injectors to power the cameras. @nayr has mentioned a one into many PoE injector for $30 but I have no experience with it myself. There are different specifications for PoE. There are 2 levels of PoE. PoE and PoE+ (aka PoE Plus), PoE is up to 12.95W and PoE+ is up to 25.5W. Be sure to check what your proposed cameras require to function with PoE. Easy rule of thumb is fixed cameras are usually PoE, non-fixed cameras including PTZ are often PoE+. The cameras spec sheet will specify PoE or PoE+ if the camera supports PoE(+) which not all do.

IVS = Intelligent Video Systems. This allows the NVR to have several very desirable functions including TripWire (you can set a line(s) across the image that trigger when something crosses them), Missing Object (NVR can tell something is missing and triggers on that) etc. Here is the official Dahua blurb on what IVS does, warning marketing speak ahead

CAT5 vs CAT6. There are sub variants of both of these including CAT5e and CAT6a. From a simple standpoint the security cameras currently available function equally as well on either CAT5 or CAT6 and all their variants. Basic CAT5e is gigabit speed which is far beyond the bandwidth requirement on even super high end 4k cameras. CAT6 is 10gigabit capable over short runs (something 20ft if I remember correctly) and CAT6a is capable for 10gigabit runs up to the cable length limit of 300ft ish (100 meters is the limit).

You can look a HDMI to CAT5 "Balun" units. Units like this are available from Amazon which allow you to run CAT5 instead of HDMI for the bulk of the distance which is cheaper cable and allows further distances. Just food for thought.

(edit to fix typo)

 

[mat200]

Hi Sim31

Welcome, some quick notes:

Do take a look at the classified section as some members picked up a few extra Dahua cameras which you mentioned you are interested in
Cameras, NVR / DVR's, hardware & more

Also note, if you get cameras which have an option to store on an installed micro-SD you can skip out on an NVR for now - especially if you are only looking at 2 cameras.

This way you can wait a bit and save up for a better NVR in the future instead of getting one of the cheaper ones now.

 

[Sim31]

It is preferential to match the brand of the cameras and the NVR, so Dahua cameras means Dahua NVR. Mixing brands works as well but you will lose out on the brand specific features as mixed brands will talk ONVIF to each other which is the most rudimentary security camera language.

Most NVR units from Dahua do not come with a hard drive installed, instead you choose the make and model and install it yourself. By far the most popular make and model for NVR hard drives are the Western Digital Purple drives, these are specifically made for NVRs and are designed for the nearly constant writing of data to the drives.

An 8 channel NVR does sound appropriate for your needs while allowing for some future expansion.

Check out the Camera Calculator / Design Software Security Camera Calculator to get an understanding of what your proposed cameras will and will not be able to achieve.

The Dahua NVR5208 for example might well suit your needs. It supports up to 2 HDD (8TB each) and can output 4k video which is very nice to have as you can run 4 full resolution 1080p cameras on one screen at the same time. This unit can have PoE or not depending on the exact model you buy. The "nvr5208-4ks2" is not PoE equipped, the "nvr5208-8p-4ks2" is PoE equipped. If you buy an NVR with PoE capabilities then no you will not need a separate PoE switch, if you buy an NVR without PoE then you would need either a PoE switch or PoE injectors for each camera. Given your interest in 2 cameras to start it may be cheaper to buy a non-PoE NVR and simply use injectors to power the cameras. @nayr has mentioned a one into many PoE injector for $30 but I have no experience with it myself. There are different specifications for PoE. There are 2 levels of PoE. PoE and PoE+ (aka PoE Plus), PoE is up to 12.95W and PoE+ is up to 25.5W. Be sure to check what your proposed cameras require to function with PoE. Easy rule of thumb is fixed cameras are usually PoE, non-fixed cameras including PTZ are often PoE+. The cameras spec sheet will specify PoE or PoE+ if the camera supports PoE(+) which not all do.

IVS = Intelligent Video Systems. This allows the NVR to have several very desirable functions including TripWire (you can set a line(s) across the image that trigger when something crosses them), Missing Object (NVR can tell something is missing and triggers on that) etc. Here is the official Dahua blurb on what IVS does, warning marketing speak ahead

CAT5 vs CAT6. There are sub variants of both of these including CAT5e and CAT6a. From a simple standpoint the security cameras currently available function equally as well on either CAT5 or CAT6 and all their variants. Basic CAT5e is gigabit speed which is far beyond the bandwidth requirement on even super high end 4k cameras. CAT6 is 10gigabit capable over short runs (something 20ft if I remember correctly) and CAT6a is capable for 10gigabit runs up to the cable length limit of 300ft ish (100 meters is the limit).

You can look a HDMI to CAT5 "Balun" units. Units like this are available from Amazon which allow you to run CAT5 instead of HDMI for the bulk of the distance which is cheaper cable and allows further distances. Just food for thought.

(edit to fix typo)

Thanks for that! I tried checking out the Camera design link you posted but it never loaded for me... I have about 20 tabs open reading every little detail and to be honest, its alot of overwhelming information as I have been trying to learn and gain so much knowledge but I believe im just overdoing it and feel like im still at square one and dont know nothing! After reading what IVIS is, is it really needed for my setup? To me, I dont think it is, it sounds like it would be more for the likes of businesses possibly? or even for a very expensive homeowner and/or person who has high priced items that they want to set trip wires/alarms and all that nice added bonuses with IVIS (if im understanding it all correctly).

Right now after studying and researching for days, I feel like I have not accomplished much at all. The 960H Amcrest System I had before had 800+ TVL Bullet cams which is probably laughable to many and with the cameras I selected above (IPC-HDW5231R-Z) is probably a gold mine for someone upgrading! Basically after seeing the videos for that specific cam, I think I want to try it out, I emailed Andy yesterday asking about it and he said he had some and responded to him that I was interested in purchasing but I never had any reply back and its been over 24 hours, I sent another email but no response either. Basically im wanting to get one of those cams and try out a turret for the first time and maybe a bullet also since thats what I had before? Again, trying to get what fits me best and not buy unnesscary items and then I realize I didnt need it or it was a bad idea then I have that awful buyers remorse.

Just wanting a camera with mic (if its possible, if not, ill try a add on, I seen one here https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00M5P7HCW?tag=ipctk-20 that someone recommended) and then just basic motion dectection and recording and zoom in and out for detail on whatever subject im looking at. If I happen to get a PTZ down the road (if I even decide on it), buying a PoE+ capable NVR would be good to be future proofed but again, would I use it? is PTZ even worth it? Gah, so much to try to learn, but maybe I just need more time to read/study all this and try to remember/learn it all. Your reply was super helpful to me and I appreciate your detailed reponse! It truly helped me out alot! =)

Hi Sim31

Welcome, some quick notes:

Do take a look at the classified section as some members picked up a few extra Dahua cameras which you mentioned you are interested in
Cameras, NVR / DVR's, hardware & more

Also note, if you get cameras which have an option to store on an installed micro-SD you can skip out on an NVR for now - especially if you are only looking at 2 cameras.

This way you can wait a bit and save up for a better NVR in the future instead of getting one of the cheaper ones now.

Thank you for the link and your suggestion! I might even try just a camera first. Would I be able to plug directly into my router that I use for my home internet? or would I need to consider getting a PoE or PoE+ switch?

 

[fenderman]

dont buy the bullet...

 

[Sim31]

dont buy the bullet...

Are they that bad? It seemed the review that @nayr posted seemed to be rather positive. Im just wanting to make sure I have one wide angle? just like the bullet cams I had with the Amcrest one. Those covered a good area and then get the turret I still plan on getting.

 

[fenderman]

Are they that bad? It seemed the review that @nayr posted seemed to be rather positive. Im just wanting to make sure I have one wide angle? just like the bullet cams I had with the Amcrest one. Those covered a good area and then get the turret I still plan on getting.

There is ZERO benefit to a bullet...he may have used one because some offer lots of zoom or alarm in/out, which you will never use. Turrets are available with WIDER angles than bullets - note, too wide and you will lose too much detail..
turrets will avoid spider issues, look better, and cant easily be knocked out of position...
bullets are an inferior design..

 

[looney2ns]

Famous last words "I'm only going to buy 2-4 cams".

A 16 channel NVR is only like $20-30 more than an 8.

Depending on where you are setting up the NVR in the house, using a POE+ switch and a NON POE nvr can make for a much neater and simpler install. Also quieter, If you use injectors, you've got crap hanging out everywhere.

POE switch, you run all the camera cables to the switch, say in the garage, then run just ONE cable to the NVR from the switch. Then put the NVR where you want it via one network cable.

IVS is much more reliable and has less falsing than simple motion detect. It's worth it.

Remember, @EMPIRETECANDY is in China, which is 12 hrs a head of us. He's asleep when we are up.

You want to know who did it, not just what happened.

Looking for some advice and direction!

 

[looney2ns]

Try this link: Camera Calculator / Design Software keep PPF>100, tutorial upper left.

 

[smoothie]

...I tried checking out the Camera design link you posted but it never loaded for me...

Sorry about that, @looney2ns linked it correctly. There was a typo in my original post that I think broke that link.

 

[smoothie]

This is a super nice camera that I am pretty sure has a built in mic I checked and Kentucky is a 1 party state for audio recording so you are good to use a mic on your cams.

 

[Sim31]

Try this link: Camera Calculator / Design Software keep PPF>100, tutorial upper left.

I checked it out and played with it, very nice tool! Wish it wasn't so limited without a membership but it does good if you just do one cam and then remove after your done and using the next cam model. However keeping the PPF>100 using the turret I mentioned earlier, it doesnt seem to go out that far, maybe 15 ft at the most? I was also trying out the bullet cam which was not much better unless im understanding PPF wrong.

This is a super nice camera that I am pretty sure has a built in mic I checked and Kentucky is a 1 party state for audio recording so you are good to use a mic on your cams.

Awesome! Yeah I remember something a few years ago when I briefly checked to see if KY was good on using mic's with cameras, and its good to know KY is in the all clear.

To update on my original 1st post above, I believe im going to get a P4SK DVR and buy a Managed switch. Looking at a TP-Link PoE+ 8 port type. It feels like it would be much better in case I ever decide to want to mess with the camera settings directly with a computer instead of having to unhook each camera and plugging in directly do the computer, just a hassle really, why not make it simplified for myself?

I seen one dome camera for outside that had really good positives on it (I believe it was 360 motorized directional one) (Dahua 2MP 25x IR PTZ Network Camera (SD49225T-HN)) and I am just appalled by how good it is, i didnt see any reviews here and had to go a google search on it and found that youtube video for it. Have you all messed with it and if so, how do you like it?

 

[mat200]

...
I seen one dome camera for outside that had really good positives on it (I believe it was 360 motorized directional one) (Dahua 2MP 25x IR PTZ Network Camera (SD49225T-HN)) and I am just appalled by how good it is, i didnt see any reviews here and had to go a google search on it and found that youtube video for it. Have you all messed with it and if so, how do you like it?

Hi Sim31,

I recall seeing quite a bit of PTZ cameras reviewed / discussed here.. just will take time to search and read through them.

Try google section with the site = ipcamtalk.com

 

[looney2ns]

@Sim31

Dahua 2MP 25x Starlight IR PTZ Network Camera (SD49225T-HN)

This isn't considered a dome cam.

 

[Sim31]

Thanks @looney2ns !! That is a pretty sweet camera! I wouldn't mind having that. Out of your own personal opinion, would that be a better choice then the HDW5231R-Z which that was going to be placed right beside my front door to identify anybody at my front door or I was thinking just the corner of the house facing the street and the front door, or stick with that? I could order that PTZ later on down the road I suppose. Since your so close, you might have to just show me what to order and ill do all the installing and hard work, you just tell me the equipment and places to stick the cams at