US Elections (& Politics) :)

In line with the civil discussion bit at the beginning of this thread, I have to say I think you a lot of the US have it wrong about Socialism. Socilaism doesn't equal communism and there's a reason why socialists get elected in the EU countries so often.

For a start, take a look at Britains Health Care System. OK not as nice or fast as going private (paying for it). However, there's no cost, no insurance premiums no nothing. Everything is free. Need a doctor, ring up and make an appointment, no charge. Need an operation? Get sent to a specialist and both his care and the OP completely free including the hospital stay. Private is nicer but for those with lots of money, you still have that option for nicer hospitals and faster treatment.

There are downsides to socialism as well, but from what I've seen during your elections, US citiziens have been brought up with a fear of Socialism as the great evil when in the majority it's anything but. Yes the extreme left wing, are a different matter, but they're a minority and I'm sure you have the odd extreme left winger / communist in the US. However, as a whole socialism is about caring for others in society and the Government looking after people not communism and the vast majority of citizens benefit from at least some socialist principles.

As many are finding out in the UK from Covid, being wealthy is fine until you're not. It sounds great paying the unemployed next to nothing and viewing them as lazy idiots until you become oine yourself, whether it's through bad luck or Covid. Only then do you realise the inadequacies of a system where 1/2 of society gets next to nothing. Same with healthcare. Fine whilst you can afford your insurance premiums, but very different when you're dying and can't afford the operation or treatment you need, and I know for a fact many in the US with cancer have found themselves in that position when faced with years ofd expensive drugs. The NHS isn't perfect, far from it, but at least a prescription for medication whilst paid for is fixed at around £9 per item and you can pay a fixed yearly fee of just over £100 to have unlimited prescriptions. Very different to having a personal drug bill of £10k a month for the latest cancer wonder drug which can cripple someone in the US even on a good wage.
 
CCTVCam said:
In line with the civil discussion bit at the beginning of this thread, I have to say I think you a lot of the US have it wrong about Socialism. Socilaism doesn't equal communism and there's a reason why socialists get elected in the EU countries so often.

For a start, take a look at Britains Health Care System. OK not as nice or fast as going private (paying for it). However, there's no cost, no insurance premiums no nothing. Everything is free. Need a doctor, ring up and make an appointment, no charge. Need an operation? Get sent to a specialist and both his care and the OP completely free including the hospital stay. Private is nicer but for those with lots of money, you still have that option for nicer hospitals and faster treatment.

There are downsides to socialism as well, but from what I've seen during your elections, US citiziens have been brought up with a fear of Socialism as the great evil when in the majority it's anything but. Yes the extreme left wing, are a different matter, but they're a minority and I'm sure you have the odd extreme left winger / communist in the US. However, as a whole socialism is about caring for others in society and the Government looking after people not communism and the vast majority of citizens benefit from at least some socialist principles.

As many are finding out in the UK from Covid, being wealthy is fine until you're not. It sounds great paying the unemployed next to nothing and viewing them as lazy idiots until you become oine yourself, whether it's through bad luck or Covid. Only then do you realise the inadequacies of a system where 1/2 of society gets next to nothing. Same with healthcare. Fine whilst you can afford your insurance premiums, but very different when you're dying and can't afford the operation or treatment you need, and I know for a fact many in the US with cancer have found themselves in that position when faced with years ofd expensive drugs. The NHS isn't perfect, far from it, but at least a prescription for medication whilst paid for is fixed at around £9 per item and you can pay a fixed yearly fee of just over £100 to have unlimited prescriptions. Very different to having a personal drug bill of £10k a month for the latest cancer wonder drug which can cripple someone in the US even on a good wage.
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question: If a person drops out of high school and gives birth to a child should that care be given free? by transferring the burden on someone else through taxing? or he or she is too dumb to have a child without being able to provide.

Socialism is cause of Europe slow success.

Europe is far worse than some 3rd world Asian countries.....
free money does not work.
increasing wage does not work.
The companies/corporations will leave.

what works is bringing jobs back home by lowering the tax.
that will bring the wage up when there is demand of work force.

I do agree on healthcare being affordable but passing your burden down on someone else is just selfish.
 
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CCTVCam said:
In line with the civil discussion bit at the beginning of this thread, I have to say I think you a lot of the US have it wrong about Socialism. Socilaism doesn't equal communism and there's a reason why socialists get elected in the EU countries so often.
..
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FYI - @CCTVCam

Socialism ... Communism ... Capitalism ... Fascism ... NAZI ( National Socialism ) - the nuances and details most people can not clearly state, as most only are looking to measure these on a line from left to right.

Numerous 2D representations work better, but many people prefer a simple binary approach - or a 1D graph ( line )

Socialism is a big bucket that includes communism ( lenin, marx, mao .. ), fascism, nazi, ..

Most of those cases of nations which call themselves a Socialist state have resulted in abusive authoritarian States - I think when most Americans discuss this they are using that as the example.

Thus when you often see average American's being antisocialist it means to them often "anti-authoritarian".

Actually rather humorous that the Antifa ( Antifascist ) claims they are against fascists.. but are actually not fighting against fascists in the streets. ( fascists are a formed from marxism and socialism theory )

Likewise the US Left calling Trump a Nazi - while Trump is no place close to a Socialist based on Racial Theory... ( National Socialism )

Just piles of people unclear on the concepts... or perhaps just purposely manipulating the concepts for their own political power



Example of a 2D representation I mention:

1611396778580.png
 
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CCTVCam said:
In line with the civil discussion bit at the beginning of this thread, I have to say I think you a lot of the US have it wrong about Socialism. Socilaism doesn't equal communism and there's a reason why socialists get elected in the EU countries so often.

For a start, take a look at Britains Health Care System. OK not as nice or fast as going private (paying for it). However, there's no cost, no insurance premiums no nothing. Everything is free. Need a doctor, ring up and make an appointment, no charge. Need an operation? Get sent to a specialist and both his care and the OP completely free including the hospital stay. Private is nicer but for those with lots of money, you still have that option for nicer hospitals and faster treatment.

There are downsides to socialism as well, but from what I've seen during your elections, US citiziens have been brought up with a fear of Socialism as the great evil when in the majority it's anything but. Yes the extreme left wing, are a different matter, but they're a minority and I'm sure you have the odd extreme left winger / communist in the US. However, as a whole socialism is about caring for others in society and the Government looking after people not communism and the vast majority of citizens benefit from at least some socialist principles.

As many are finding out in the UK from Covid, being wealthy is fine until you're not. It sounds great paying the unemployed next to nothing and viewing them as lazy idiots until you become oine yourself, whether it's through bad luck or Covid. Only then do you realise the inadequacies of a system where 1/2 of society gets next to nothing. Same with healthcare. Fine whilst you can afford your insurance premiums, but very different when you're dying and can't afford the operation or treatment you need, and I know for a fact many in the US with cancer have found themselves in that position when faced with years ofd expensive drugs. The NHS isn't perfect, far from it, but at least a prescription for medication whilst paid for is fixed at around £9 per item and you can pay a fixed yearly fee of just over £100 to have unlimited prescriptions. Very different to having a personal drug bill of £10k a month for the latest cancer wonder drug which can cripple someone in the US even on a good wage.
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CCTVCAM, thanks for posting. I always enjoy a 'civil' conversation and debate, something that doesn't happen very often these days. Your belief in a 'helping' government and ours are completely incompatible. 'as a whole socialism is about caring for others in society and the Government looking after people not communism and the vast majority of citizens benefit from at least some socialist principles.'

If that is what you believe, that's fine. But that is NOT what our founding fathers desired or framed our country to be. Far from it. Government helping? Ha, ha. Now that made my day. I want Government to stay the 'hell' out of my life, as much as possible.

Sorry, but you and I (and conservative Americans) will never agree on this point.

Take care and be safe.
 
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oh boy... those in charge do not know what they are doing... great... just great... they've had 1 year to plan this...


Krystal Ball: Dems ADMIT They Have NO CLUE On Relief, But Bernie Has A Plan
 
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CCTVCam said:
In line with the civil discussion bit at the beginning of this thread, I have to say I think you a lot of the US have it wrong about Socialism. Socilaism doesn't equal communism and there's a reason why socialists get elected in the EU countries so often.

For a start, take a look at Britains Health Care System. OK not as nice or fast as going private (paying for it). However, there's no cost, no insurance premiums no nothing. Everything is free. Need a doctor, ring up and make an appointment, no charge. Need an operation? Get sent to a specialist and both his care and the OP completely free including the hospital stay. Private is nicer but for those with lots of money, you still have that option for nicer hospitals and faster treatment.

There are downsides to socialism as well, but from what I've seen during your elections, US citiziens have been brought up with a fear of Socialism as the great evil when in the majority it's anything but. Yes the extreme left wing, are a different matter, but they're a minority and I'm sure you have the odd extreme left winger / communist in the US. However, as a whole socialism is about caring for others in society and the Government looking after people not communism and the vast majority of citizens benefit from at least some socialist principles.

As many are finding out in the UK from Covid, being wealthy is fine until you're not. It sounds great paying the unemployed next to nothing and viewing them as lazy idiots until you become oine yourself, whether it's through bad luck or Covid. Only then do you realise the inadequacies of a system where 1/2 of society gets next to nothing. Same with healthcare. Fine whilst you can afford your insurance premiums, but very different when you're dying and can't afford the operation or treatment you need, and I know for a fact many in the US with cancer have found themselves in that position when faced with years ofd expensive drugs. The NHS isn't perfect, far from it, but at least a prescription for medication whilst paid for is fixed at around £9 per item and you can pay a fixed yearly fee of just over £100 to have unlimited prescriptions. Very different to having a personal drug bill of £10k a month for the latest cancer wonder drug which can cripple someone in the US even on a good wage.
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if I’m not mistaken, your personal income tax is 45% and your sales tax is 20%

My income tax is roughly 25% and our sales tax here in a free state is 6.75%

Tax rates are of course complicated and one needs to take into account Social Security tax, VAT, and others, but it seems like free health care comes at a price no?
 
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As Ronald Regan said the nine scariest words in the English language are "I'm from the government and I'm here to help".

Free healthcare, or any "free" program is not free. The money comes from somewhere. Government, by definition, does not produce anything, no "profit". Yes, they can print money but by adding more money to the economy that way the existing money is devalued. That's called inflation which, in turn, requires the government to need more money along with everyone else needing more money. The government then raise taxes or finds new things to tax to increase its' "income". The income of the government comes from the people, whether from taxes directly on the the people and the products and services they need or use, or are passed DIRECTLY onto the people by the companies that supply those products and services.

There is no such thing as a free lunch or free healthcare.
 
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I've come to the conclusion there is so much soap opera shit going on between these two groups I'm done trying to follow it on the news. I feel like I've wasted a ton of time reading articles or watching videos that have arguing and proof that there is corruption. All to see nothing done to date....

I'm just going to vote down any Dem, any bill asking for money or a tax. I don't care what they say it will go to, I spent 40 years in CA and seen how that kind of policy ruins a state... I honestly can't see while I'm alive the Democrats changing to where I would actually consider ANY of their policies...

You get into arguments with friends you've known for 20+ years and might even end a friendship over the soap opera bull shit listed above...

Nothing will change till the media and school systems get out of the Liberal hands.
 
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CCTVCam said:
In line with the civil discussion bit at the beginning of this thread, I have to say I think you a lot of the US have it wrong about Socialism. Socilaism doesn't equal communism and there's a reason why socialists get elected in the EU countries so often.

For a start, take a look at Britains Health Care System. OK not as nice or fast as going private (paying for it). However, there's no cost, no insurance premiums no nothing. Everything is free. Need a doctor, ring up and make an appointment, no charge. Need an operation? Get sent to a specialist and both his care and the OP completely free including the hospital stay. Private is nicer but for those with lots of money, you still have that option for nicer hospitals and faster treatment.

There are downsides to socialism as well, but from what I've seen during your elections, US citiziens have been brought up with a fear of Socialism as the great evil when in the majority it's anything but. Yes the extreme left wing, are a different matter, but they're a minority and I'm sure you have the odd extreme left winger / communist in the US. However, as a whole socialism is about caring for others in society and the Government looking after people not communism and the vast majority of citizens benefit from at least some socialist principles.

As many are finding out in the UK from Covid, being wealthy is fine until you're not. It sounds great paying the unemployed next to nothing and viewing them as lazy idiots until you become oine yourself, whether it's through bad luck or Covid. Only then do you realise the inadequacies of a system where 1/2 of society gets next to nothing. Same with healthcare. Fine whilst you can afford your insurance premiums, but very different when you're dying and can't afford the operation or treatment you need, and I know for a fact many in the US with cancer have found themselves in that position when faced with years ofd expensive drugs. The NHS isn't perfect, far from it, but at least a prescription for medication whilst paid for is fixed at around £9 per item and you can pay a fixed yearly fee of just over £100 to have unlimited prescriptions. Very different to having a personal drug bill of £10k a month for the latest cancer wonder drug which can cripple someone in the US even on a good wage.
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First off there is No Such Thing as Free...You will always find a hidden Agenda and Greed/Power behind anything labeled Free. When we use the word Freedom here in the states it is a type of Freedom no other country in the world has, a type of Freedom from the clutches of a Government becoming too controlling and too powerful (like Communism). it is this type of Freedom that people from all over the world who are escaping their countries regimes flock here for. Of course we are not totally free from our government, by no means, but we have more Freedom here in the US than any other nation in the world. We all just witnessed a Regime take over our Capitol, no the troops on Inauguration Day was not there because of the so called Insurrection they would have us and the world try to believe from Jan. 6, no the troops were there to show of the power of this new Regime who wants full and total control of the people. First it will start off as Socialism then will progress to Communism as they gain more control. Socialism always sounds good on the surface, but in truth it is a form of Slavery of it's people with the Lie that the Government is helping it's people. Our was Constitution was designed to protect the people from this type of Government, the Government our Fore-Fathers escaped from. We have witnessed our Constitution being completely ignored by the Left and not challenged by the Right.

We are already seeing the suppressions of our Freedoms, firstly our Freedom of Speech, our Main Stream Media (MSM) controls the new Regimes narrative, our Social Media locks out and silences those who are opposed, our Education System distorts history and tries to erase anything that goes against their narrative, our Religious Freedoms are being attacked as Truth is replaced by a Lie, these are always the starting place for these type of Regimes. They silence the Right, with their wrongs...
 
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