Worlds First Review - Dahua - IPC-Color4K-X / DH-IPC-HFW5849T1-ASE-LED - Full Color 4K Camera

[Mike A.]

Any camera is at least potentially full color at night. The only difference is that those marketed as "night color" or whatever name used generally have more sensitive sensor/signal processing (though sometimes not so much and are just sold without IR and rely on white LEDs). The 5442T-ZE can display color at night if there's enough ambient visible light. Beyond doing just that, the next issue becomes how well they work at settings that work well to capture motion while in color in low light. It's fairly easy to make most any decent cam look great at night for a static scene using very slow shutter settings and higher gain, but motion will be a blurry mess.

Generally, you'll need a good amount of light for the 5442T-ZE to really work well in color at night. Think along the lines of a well-lighted parking lot or a couple of bright floodlights on a house. The Color4K-T has a larger sensor and can work well in color with quite a bit less light. But it does need visible light and, again, doesn't have/work with IR so will be dark without.

Bottom line, if you have or can provide enough visible ambient light, then the night color cams can look and work great. If you don't have that, then the IR cams like the 5442T-ZE are the better way to go.

 

[wittaj]

Thanks for your inputs @looney2ns & @Mike A.

The Amcrest IP8M-2796EB-AI is the cheapest but not sure how much of a difference it makes to pay a lot more for the 5442TM-AS-LED or a LOT more for the 5442T-ZE which would run me just over $400 CAD. The IPC-HDW5442TM-AS-LED would cost me around $275 CAD. The Amcrest is about $170 CAD shipped to me.

So, which camera would you go with to get the best picture at the lowest ambient light and have as close to a colour night camera as possible at the lowest price? Obviously there's a big jump in price even from just the AS-LED to the 5442T-ZE. In terms of price obviously the Amcrest is best choice for me but if the next cheapest being the 5442TM-AS-LED is much better than I'd probably settle for that. The 5442T-ZE justs costs too much at $400. Therefore I'm leaning towards the AS-LED but only if it's noticeably better than the Amcrest which I think it is.

The IP8M-2796 will perform poorly at night. It is 8MP on a 1/2.8" sensor and a 2MP will beat it ALL NIGHT LONG because the 8MP will need 4 times the light to produce a comparable picture.

Do not chase MP, chase sensor size.

The 5442 will beat the IP8M all night long.

As others have said, do you have enough light at night or be willing to run the built-in LED? If not, then you need a camera with infrared capabilities.

The only major difference is the full color cameras cannot see infrared whereas other cameras can. If there is ever a question on if you don't have enough light, then get the camera with infrared capabilities.

I run almost all of my cameras as color at night, but I bought the version with infrared in the event I couldn't run them in color.

Here is a recent example someone posted with an 8MP on the 1/2.8" sensor (similar to the Amcrest you are looking at) versus 8MP on the proper sized sensor (the camera this thread is about) - which image looks better to you?





Of more importance is that the top picture is default settings, so a horribly slow shutter of maybe 1/12 so any motion would be a blur. The 2nd picture is a 1/100 shutter and will get a clean capture. The faster the shutter speed, the more light that is needed. That bottom picture at 1/100 shutter is impressive. If the top camera was set to a 1/100 shutter it would be a very dark image.


Almost any camera can do well in the daytime with enough light, even cameras that are 8MP put on a sensor designed for 2MP. But keep in mind that usually the processor and other stuff are still designed around 2MP, so the camera struggles trying to keep up with 8MP worth of data.

So buying an 8MP camera on the same sensor as the 2MP processor means that the processor is potentially working 4 times as hard for the 8MP camera. The camera you are looking at is designed for 2MP, so when they pop an 8MP lens on it, the processor is still the same and has to work harder. In some situations that is problematic.

Here is a real world example with a deer. Even with a floodlight, there simply wasn't enough light to make the 4MP on the sensor designed for 2MP to go into color. Imagine how much darker trying to squeeze 8MP on it will be and without a floodlight, forget about it.

And a 4MP on the proper 1/1.8" sensor camera (different deer LOL but same field of view when the camera was replaced to a better camera) that the camera was able to go to color based on the larger sensor (this is just the regular 5442 camera that I forced into color instead of using infrared):

Which do you think is the better image? The same thing applies whether it is a 4MP versus 8MP on the sensor sized for 2MP.

But an 8MP will be even worse because it will need even more light than the 4MP on the same size sensor.

Reach out to @EMPIRETECANDY about pricing and sending to Canada. Many Canadian members here buy from Andy.

See this thread:

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

At the urging of several folks here, I created a thread to show the importance of focal length and how focal length can be more important than megapixels (MP). I mentioned some of this in the post regarding The Hookup’s latest video demonstrating different cameras, including one sold from a...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[Mike A.]

There's the fixed focal length 5224TM-AS with IR that's the same price as the -AS-LED and which will preform about the same as the 5442T-ZE as far as color in low light (slightly better actually but negligible difference):

EmpireTech IPC-T54IR-AS 1/1.8" CMOS 4MP WDR IR Eyeball AI Network Came

1/1.8” 4Megapixel progressive scan CMOS H.265 & H.264 triple-stream encoding 25/30 fps@2688 × 1520, 50/60 fps@1080P (1920 × 1080) WDR (140 dB), Day/Night (ICR), 3D DNR, AWB, AGC, BLC Multiple network monitoring: Web viewer, CMS (DSS/PSS) & DMSS 2.8 mm fixed lens (3.6 mm, 6.0 mm optional)...

empiretech01.com

And this one if you need longer length but I have no experience with it:

EmpireTech IPC-T54IR-AS-S3 1/1.8" CMOS 6mm New Look 4MP IR Fixed-focal

4-MP 1/1.8" CMOS image sensor, low luminance, and high definition image. Outputs max. 4 MP (2688×1520) @25/30fps Built-in IR LED, and the max. illumination distance is 50 m. ROI, SVC, SMART H.264+/H.265+, AI H.264/H.265, encoding after filter, flexible coding, applicable to various bandwidth and...

empiretech01.com

The advantage of the 5442T-ZE is the flexibility of the vari-focal. Why so much there? Andy has it for $180 USD = $247-ish CAD:

EmpireTech IPC-T5442T-ZE 1/1.8" CMOS 4MP Ultra Low Light Starlight IR

4MP, 1/1.8" CMOS image sensor, low illuminance, high image definition Outputs max. 4MP (2688 × 1520) @30 fps, 2MP(1920 × 1080) @60 fps Built-in IR LED, max. IR distance: 40 m ROI, SMART H.264+/H.265+, flexible coding, applicable to various bandwidth and storage environments Rotation mode, WDR...

empiretech01.com

 

[CCTVCam]

I'd forget the 4Kt as an LPR. You're trying to do too much with 1 camera. I run my 2x4KT;s at 4ms (1/250th) and without any light the picture is almost jet black with much visible noise / hot pixels. With a little light it's excellent and clean, but you need much higher shutter speeds for LPR typically from what people on here report around 1/2000th second. You're not goimg to get that from a 4KT or X at night unless you have a LOT of light.

Better to buy an IR equipped 5442-ze model @ 4mp and use that for LPR with it closely zoomed in to the plate area, and then if you want to identfiy the make and colour, use a 4kt for overview. Another issue with using a 4Kt for LPR duties is they have a shallow depth of field although I haven't the 6mm version. From memory though, the 6mm lens version has issues with focus around the edges of the picture (unlike the 3.6 / 2,8 versions). The 4KT is rthe ultimate night camera for colour at reasonable price, but it's not the ultimate camera for dof and not really suited to LPR at night except in exceptional circumstances in my opinion. ie. unless the street is lit like a football ground because of the shutter speeds likely needed to prevent blur.

 

[tantrim]

I'd forget the 4Kt as an LPR. You're trying to do too much with 1 camera. I run my 2x4KT;s at 4ms (1/250th) and without any light the picture is almost jet black with much visible noise / hot pixels. With a little light it's excellent and clean, but you need much higher shutter speeds for LPR typically from what people on here report around 1/2000th second. You're not goimg to get that from a 4KT or X at night unless you have a LOT of light.

Better to buy an IR equipped 5442-ze model @ 4mp and use that for LPR with it closely zoomed in to the plate area, and then if you want to identfiy the make and colour, use a 4kt for overview. Another issue with using a 4Kt for LPR duties is they have a shallow depth of field although I haven't the 6mm version. From memory though, the 6mm lens version has issues with focus around the edges of the picture (unlike the 3.6 / 2,8 versions). The 4KT is rthe ultimate night camera for colour at reasonable price, but it's not the ultimate camera for dof and not really suited to LPR at night except in exceptional circumstances in my opinion. ie. unless the street is lit like a football ground because of the shutter speeds likely needed to prevent blur.

From what I understand the issue with the 6mm is it has the smallest focal sweet spot.

 

[dubber]

Thanks for your inputs @looney2ns & @Mike A.

The Amcrest IP8M-2796EB-AI is the cheapest but not sure how much of a difference it makes to pay a lot more for the 5442TM-AS-LED or a LOT more for the 5442T-ZE which would run me just over $400 CAD. The IPC-HDW5442TM-AS-LED would cost me around $275 CAD. The Amcrest is about $170 CAD shipped to me.

So, which camera would you go with to get the best picture at the lowest ambient light and have as close to a colour night camera as possible at the lowest price? Obviously there's a big jump in price even from just the AS-LED to the 5442T-ZE. In terms of price obviously the Amcrest is best choice for me but if the next cheapest being the 5442TM-AS-LED is much better than I'd probably settle for that. The 5442T-ZE justs costs too much at $400. Therefore I'm leaning towards the AS-LED but only if it's noticeably better than the Amcrest which I think it is.

These are the lessons that I learned from owning both 4KT and 5442 Vari focal

1. When going color at night, you'll need to consider issue such as pulsing videos/refresh rate due to same frequency as street lights or lights near by.
This prevent user from using a range of shutter speed which is good for minimizing less motion blur. If you can live with rolling lines/refresh rates across the screen all the time, then it's ok for you.

2. When using fixed cam, and you "fine tune" the cam to your scene, you then want (human nature) "just a little bit more" to see if you can ID the subject a little further but you can't. So you're stuck vs vari focal where you can fine tune, zoom in etc as much as you want.

3. With color cam at night, like what everybody is saying, you need light. If you don't have enough light, and you want to add more, I'm assuming it's going to be expensive adding more light fixtures, better light fixtures etc, vs with IR cams, you can just buy an IR illuminator from amazon for $40-60 and help improve the quality of the video at night.

my 2 cents

 

[wittaj]

Thanks for all your help everyone. Sounds like the 5442TM-AS-LED is the sweet spot for me although even that is listed as $213 USD from Andy. That's $300 CAD already. As I said I do have another IR camera on the other corner of the porch and I already have LED lights there that even the 811A produces good color night pics with so I'm pretty sure the AS-LED will suffice. You talk about shutter speed but is that something that's adjustable on this camera? What are the main things I should be trying to adjust anyway to improve the pic over default settings? And does this camera allow you to change them easily in the configuration?

As for "The advantage of the 5442T-ZE is the flexibility of the vari-focal. Why so much there? Andy has it for $180 USD = $247-ish CAD" - I assume that shipping and then duties/broker fees will still need to be added to the $247 so that will then run to around $300 CAD :-(

Not sure I need vari-focal that much. I know very little about cameras since computers are my thing. I think it'd be nice to have but I won't be using it to try to read plates or anything like that.

The 5442 will BLOW AWAY your Reolink - like not even close.

It has been shown that Reolink (and most consumer grade cameras) favor nice bright static images at night over performance. So at some point even if you can set shutter settings, the camera will override your input in favor of a nice bright image. This is done by slowing down the shutter and increasing the gain. So then you see what Reolinks are notorious for - ghost blur invisible person images at night and inability to capture plates.

So the difference between a better camera like say a Dahua and a Reolink is that you can set parameters on the Dahua and it will hold. If you set parameters on the reolink that would result in a darker image the algorithm internally says "idiot alert" and it won't let you set parameters that the firmware thinks will result in not displaying a nice bright image. Don't believe me, set the shutter to 1/10,000 at night and the image should be completely black. It won't with the reolink...or any cheap camera. It will override your 1/10,000 shutter and favor a bright image. It is a good test to determine how good the camera is.

As far as varifocal is concerned, the question is at what distance do you want to IDENTIFY an object at night? If it is within 15ish feet, then the fixed cam is ok. If it is further, then you need a varifocal. See this thread:

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

At the urging of several folks here, I created a thread to show the importance of focal length and how focal length can be more important than megapixels (MP). I mentioned some of this in the post regarding The Hookup’s latest video demonstrating different cameras, including one sold from a...

ipcamtalk.com

You claim the 811A produces good color night pics - prove it to us with a motion image (this may also help us figure out if you have enough light once you make the shutter fast enough to eliminate blur). That shutter is probably running at a 1/10 or slower, so yea the static image will look great, but motion is probably a blur.

Here is the unofficial Reolink thread where people put up there best night image with motion - is yours better than any of these?

Reolink: Deconstruction of a dangerous misleading youtube review "Finding the BEST 4K Security Camera NVR Package (Reolink vs Amcrest vs Swann)"

Executive Summary: DO NOT be a sheep. Ask what a reviewer can be missing, ask if a reviewer is using hype words to sell the cheapest product. Test your cameras and kits right away. Just do a bench test. Test real world conditions. Test moving suspects. Test at night, test at day. Use a test rig...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[David L]

@Mike A.

Where do you get $180 USD from for the ZE? I clicked that link and it's $253. Not sure who Andy is although I've heard the name somewhere once before. I'm still new to this forum.

You can PM him and he will give you a price/invoice...

@EMPIRETECANDY

 

[David L]

This is Amazon US, take 5% more off:



With $64 coupon $256 CAD:

https://www.amazon.ca/EmpireTech-Security-Starlight-Vari-Focal-IPC-T5442T-ZE/dp/B08R55JFVQ/

 

[wittaj]

The varifocal is OPTICAL zoom set live. Any zooming of recorded video is DIGITAL zoom.

But varifocal cams are a set it and forget and are not to be frequently optically zoomed in and out - that would be a PTZ.

 

[David L]

@David L Thank you for all that. I'm going to buy the ZE version of the 5442 thanks to the $64 coupon. One question. I'm going to use the Synology Surveillance app and was wondering, if I zoomed in on the recordings wouldn't that just use digital zoom provided by the software? The varifocal/optical zoom that comes with this camera is only available in Live video isn't it?

Correct. As @wittaj stated you won't be using this CAM like a PTZ. Many of us here have a Varifocal we use to place at a future location that we will be adding a Camera and use it to test that location so we know which Fixed Lens CAM would best work in that location. My first CAM purchase was a Varifocal that was later replaced with a Fixed CAM.

With this said, you may want to consider a j-box mount. This makes it easy for wire management and waterproofing and also easy if replacing the CAM.

https://www.amazon.ca/Water-Proof-Junction-HDW4631C-HDBW4433R-ZS-HFW4431R-Z/dp/B07FNQWGLH/

Here is another mount depending on how you plan to mount:

https://www.amazon.ca/Dahua-IPC-HDW4431C-IPC-HDBW4431R-ZS-IPC-HDBW4431R-S-IPC-HDBW4431R-AS/dp/B079BWK932/

Also since you mentioned you are new to this Forum, I highly recommend reading through the Cliff Notes

IP Cam Talk Cliff Notes

Information in this section was contributed by [URL='https://ipcamtalk.com/members/mat200.29441/'][COLOR=#0000b3]@matt200[/COLOR][/URL] and [URL='https://ipcamtalk.com/members/giomania.36271/'][COLOR=#0000b3]@giomania [/COLOR][/URL] [/LIST] Any dedicated manufacturer NVR should match...

ipcamtalk.com

Yes, it is long but worth it, at least check out the Waterproofing Connections section, many DIYers fail to properly install their CAMs, be sure to properly waterproof your cable connection...you will thank us in the long run.

HTH

 

[CCTVCam]

From what I understand the issue with the 6mm is it has the smallest focal sweet spot.

View attachment 174119

I believe from memory there were also issues with soft focus around the edges of thes the 6mm and Andy didn't sell them for a while because of this. If I've remembered wrongly, I apologise or if it been fixed, ditto, but either way,all the 4K's even the 2.8 and 3.8 have a fairly shallow dof from what I've read on here and from my experience with the 3.6. Not an issue in many use cases. Mines fine covering a small part of my driveway / yard. However, it might be an issue for LPR. You'd ideally want as you say the sweet spot falling ideally on the exact point you want to read plates.

3. With color cam at night, like what everybody is saying, you need light. If you don't have enough light, and you want to add more, I'm assuming it's going to be expensive adding more light fixtures, better light fixtures etc, vs with IR cams, you can just buy an IR illuminator from amazon for $40-60 and help improve the quality of the video at night.

my 2 cents

Plus with white light, you'd probably have legal issues projecting large amounts of white light into the road should that prove necessary.

To the OP, you mention the cost of the 5442. Buy once, save twice! Replacement of a cheap camera with a 5442 is far more expensive than simply buying the 5442 and no other camera in the 1st place.

 

[wittaj]

@wittaj

Ok. I've attached the first video recorded around 1 am today without any lights except a bit from the street lamp. Not sure what the sound is but it's like that pretty much most of the time. I'm not too happy with its audio but it's quite clear when someone speaks to the camera or vice versa. No motion though so just static image which is acceptable with the perimeter lights.

ReoLink 811A POE @ 1:11 am (no led's or spot lights enabled):
View attachment 174172

















Reolink 811A POE @ 1:11 am (previous day; with hanging lights around the porch perimeter):

View attachment 174173

















Default settings for this camera were 128 for everything but I set them as below for both recordings above. Brightness & Shadows section are default settings. don't recall changing these so these may be default settings. IR & spotlights were turned off since I prefer for this camera to not be noticeable (it's really dark on the porch without the lights so unless you're looking for the camera you don't really see it). You can also see my other camera (Reolink 410W wireless in the top right corner) which faces the 811A from the opposite side and captures B&W IR video. I downloaded these videos from my Synology Surveillance Station (DSM 7).

View attachment 174174

I didn't see any settings for shutter speed so couldn't tell you what it's using. Yes I do believe the 5442 AS will blow away the 811A but I only paid $150 CAD at my door for it. I bought the reolink before I found this forum. The 5442 AS-LED is currently $213 USD with the link posted by Mike A. Even if shipping is free I'll still have to probably pay duty/taxes & broker fees especially if USPS is not used. So the 5442 will cost me about $330 CAD to my door, almost $200 more than the 811A. Not sure I'll get $200 worth better picture than the 811A.

@wittaj Btw are you Polish by any chance? Witaj (with only one T) means hello in Polish so I thought maybe you got it from that

Anyway, based on everything I said and the videos I've attached. Do you agree that the 5442 AS-LED would be my best choice without spending more for the varifocal ZE version? That is if I decide to fork out the extra $200 for the upgrade.

There is no motion in this video clips, so the quality of the camera can't be judged.

The first image without the extra light, you would need to either run the built-in white light of the 5442 OR get the version with infrared as that is a backlit situation.

If you are going to leave the porch lights on all night, then the LED version of the 5442 will probably work, but if you don't leave those on the IR version will be the better choice.

If the goal of the camera is to IDENTIFY on the porch, then the fixed lens would be the right choice.

 

[David L]

@wittaj

I have hoped not to have to leave the porch lights on but if these cameras force me to I would leave them on. I do want IR in the camera for backup. Not sure which model you're referring to for the IR version but I think it's the 5442T-ZE while to identify is the 5442TM-AS (2.8mm). Although looking at the descriptions it looks like both cameras do IR. Says "Built-in IR LED" on both.

Regardless, unless I'm confused, then I believe the 5442T-ZE (2.8mm) is the right choice as I do want to IDENTIFY, preferably without leaving the porch lights on since I don't want the camera to be visible if I don't have to. Let me know if I'm correct so that I can make the order.

Where did you see both have IR? I am only aware of either LED or IR, not both. You will see LED at the end of the model number for the LED version. Also, I am not aware of a Varifocal 5442 that has LED, thinking they are only IR, but I could be wrong...

You will see the LED lights:

 

[wittaj]

@wittaj

Here, in About This Item you'll see it says Built-In IR LED:
EmpireTech Outdoor Security S3 Version 4MP Ultra Low Light Starlight+ WDR IR Turret AI IP Camera,IP67 Weatherproof,Support POE and ePOE,Built-in Mic,Vehicle and Human Detection,IPC-T54IR-AS 2.8MM : Amazon.ca: Electronics

And here, in About This Item it says Built-In IR LED:
EmpireTech 4MP Ultra Low Light IP Wired Camera,Starlight IR Motorized 2.7mm-12mm Lens Turret Camera,IP67 Weatherproof,Built-in Mic,Support POE and ePOE,Vehicle and Human Detection, Black : Amazon.ca: Electronics

From what I remember you saying before only the 5442T-ZE has built-in IR but I don't see any IR LED lights on both those links.

Anyway I think I'm confused now as you said either it has IR or LED but not both. Regardless, both produce color night vision right? I already have cameras with IR but they only give me B&W picture at night and of course I want colour. I don't want LED because I'd prefer the camera to be invisible and with LED it'll emit light. With IR only on the ZE version camera I still expect color night vision without the camera showing any lights as I'll just use the porch lights then.

Btw I also like the ZE version because I can buy it black. The first link above for the 5442-AS is only white.

Lastly, look at: EmpireTech 4MP Ultra Low Light IP Wired Camera,Starlight IR Motorized 2.7mm-12mm Lens Turret Camera,IP67 Weatherproof,Built-in Mic,Support POE and ePOE,Vehicle and Human Detection IPC-T5442T-ZE White : Amazon.ca: Electronics

Why is the white model more expensive in this link than the 2nd link above? Both links are ‎IPC-T5442T-ZE yet they have different prices. And more so, why is the black version in this link $200 more expensive?! Crazy.

Infrared is LED also. Every 5442 series camera has infrared EXCEPT for the ones that have LED in the camera name - those are full-color cameras that do not have infrared and cannot see infrared but instead come with visible white LED to provide visible light, which you said you don't want to use.

As I stated previously, if the porch is the area you want to IDENTIFY then the 5442 fixed lens 2.8mm or 3.6mm camera will work. If you are not going to leave the porch lights on or don't want to run the visible LED then you need infrared.

Otherwise, once you set the shutter speed to minimize blur (min 1/60) with all the light behind the subject, their face will be just a black blob like this. I bet the Reolink in your example is probably running a 1/12 shutter or so.



Yes, you can force a camera not labeled as full color into color at night IF you have enough light.

 

[David L]

We had a motion detection porch light that when it came on our doorbell IR would switch off and we got color video.

 

[looney2ns]

With no lights on my porch and IR=on, will the IR lights be visible on the camera to onlookers? Can the IR led's be turned off or reduced? If yes then I guess the color night performance will suffer. Seems like I can't have the camera invisible at night either way.

One more thing. Where are the firmware downloads per camera model? I went to Downloads section here and the latest one for the IPC-5442T-ZE I plan to buy is like a year old. Is this really the latest version (V2.8 2022 Aug):

IPC-T5442T-ZE IPC-T5442TM-AS IPC-T5842T-ZE SMD 3.0 Smart IR Latest New Firmware From EmpireTech | IP Cam Talk

Is there a usable demo page that we can play with to see all the settings it has which can be changed for this camera?

Only visible if you look for them, they arn't glaring by any means. Majority of people will never see the IR, for that matter, the majority won't notice the camera at all.
Yes, the brightness of the IR emitters can be adjusted for intensity, or turned off.
You're over thinking it.
No demo page.

 

[wittaj]

The infrared will be two tiny red dots. Really only noticeable if looking straight at.

Andy has links here on his website of the latest firmwares.

No demo page.

 

[dubber]

Thanks for all your input guys. Best forum I've ever been part of! As a result I just bought the EmpireTech IPC-T5442TM-AS 1/1.8" CMOS 4MP WDR IR Eyeball AI Network Camera Built-in MIC2.8mm from Andy's directly. Price is slightly better than Amazon.ca's. Not sure if I can return it after testing it as easily as I could on Amazon.ca's but I hope I won't have to.

I decided I didn't need the optical zoom. I also checked out some reviews between the two cameras and I thought the T5442T-ZE's picture quality was ever so slightly worse than the T5442TM-AS...probably because it has 0.003Lux@F1.8 for the ZE vs 0.002Lux@F1.6 for the AS. Very negligible. At least I preferred the AS in this frame:



I'm assuming HFW5442T-ASE and IPC-T5442TM-AS are still the same cameras just different firmware?

Clearance Outlet and Refurbished Products | EmpireTech

Refurbished products have been professionally serviced, verified, and certified for optimal quality while minimizing environmental damage. Buying refurbished is a cost-effective and ecologically responsible choice. Outlet items are brand-new and often discontinued.

empiretech01.com

Andy has the same IPC-T5442TM-AS in refurb condition on his website. See link above. Price in US

 

[kobebeef]

Has anyone tested the S2 version and see what the difference is?